Women should get free birth control, panel says

[christiangirl]

^^^That. Allat.

ETA: Dang you, Phil. That was meant for Rhoyal but you got there too fast.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Since I actually work in the real health system, this whole post is laughable.

Excellent lambasting of the post. You and DrPhil are pretty much in the same boat, mentally.

The fact that you actually think that providing people with preventative health care limits personal freedom gives me a pretty good idea of the level of logic skills you exhibit.

Woah, talk about leaps of logic! I never said that providing people with preventative health care limits personal freedom. That's silly.

However, taking money at the barrel of a gun (the IRS/government is the gun) to give to other people is limiting personal freedom.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Because we're not operating in a hypothetical market - we're operating in an actual, defined system,

Of course.

However, I suppose my hypotheticals come with caveats. If we are to remove healthcare funding from the federal budget, we are to remove total government intervention in the market. The problem is that we get a little free-market one way...but no free-market in another similar instance.

For example, the banks were able to spend boundless amounts of money and hand-out tons of loans. An exhibition of free-market Austrian capitalism. Except, that in direct opposition to this was the fiat money system, the FDIC, and the federal reserve. These federal regulations and propping up systems created moral hazards creating a collapse. No moral hazards/no government intervention...a functioning market. But when the invisible hand is not allowed to work, it is a nightmare.

With that said, I'm advocating the removal of the federal intervention in the health-care market...but if we remove universal health care, we must remove the whole disgusting mess.

So when you talk about,

one in which insurance companies have very little incentive to push preventative services (due to consumer, government and market pressures), and one in which their slavish devotion to quarterly earnings trumps the long-term cost benefit of pushing preventative measures anyway.

Which is created by a system propped up by the government, expounded by the fiat money system and welfare, you're going to have this mess. In spite of this consistent meddling by the federal government, the insurances still like preventative care. Insurance companies and companies that provide insurance love preventative care because it makes having you in their insurance cheaper. If they have a slavish devotion to quarterly earnings, they would have a slavish devotion to preventative measures which saves money. And they do. Do you really think that many corporations (including the one I work for) provide a gym because they want everyone to be skinny and hot?

No.

When you have a regulatory agency which consistently withholds drugs from the populace where it might be someone's last hope, where you have a federal government that prevents cheap drugs from other countries in order to support corporations (form of corporatism, eventual fascism), where you have a government who has now forced the populace to buy insurance (which again is another form of corporatism, eventual fascism) which in itself creates a terrible moral hazard and greatly increases the cost of care, and ultimately a government who props up a multiplicity of companies, you have a problem. The problems these last two or three decades have seen in regards to healthcare are not a result of a government hands-off approach, simply the opposite. The government has been too involved.

The Austrian Free-Market is compassion. The socialized market fakes compassion for power. Power over the powerless.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Excellent lambasting of the post. You and DrPhil are pretty much in the same boat, mentally.

Oh yes, we definitely started with you and not the other way around.

Good luck with your hypotheticals.

[AOII Angel]

Wow...it must feel really horrible to be in American in EW's head. All this forced tyranny that has been going on for decades...how can he stand it?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Wow...it must feel really horrible to be in American in EW's head. All this forced tyranny that has been going on for decades...how can he stand it?

Hopefully he can't and will be escaping to a one-person island in the Pacific. Then he can talk shit with no risk of retort.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Hopefully he can't and will be escaping to a one-person island in the Pacific. Then he can talk shit with no risk of retort.

We can dream.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Even the possibility is something women should be informed about.

I know someone who was on birth control for 20 years. She took a break to give her body a rest and assumed (definitely not based on doctor's orders) that her body had stored enough birth control that she couldn't get pregnant.

And then BOOM...PREGNANT.

The "break" concept is from back in the day when there was only one hormone loaded pill that everyone took. Many of them nowadays are so low dose that this isn't an issue at all.

Originally Posted by nittanygirl

Have before. He takes it as a personal attack for some reason.
I've even said I'm quitting taking it and if that's happening then nothing's happening
Of course I know things happen so I'd be too nervous to go off it.


Well, we're not living in the same area right now anyways because I'm still finishing school, so I'm not a very expensive girlfriend really at this point.
Yes, he drives to see me (it's only a few hours and honestly isn't happening every week) & we usually go out to dinner (but I'm modest about choosing dinner options/price points -- I usually pick something that costs less than his unless it's like my birthday)

I don't know why he won't help pay for it though really. He's good about offering to pay for my dinner, or my movie when we actually do see each other (and sometimes I pay for us, out of respect that he drove all the way to see me, or whatever)

My boyfriend (the one w/ no money that I bitched about before) actually offered to help pay for my $2.50 pill packs, for crying out loud.

Is he worried that you're cheating because of the distance? It sounds like something other than $$ is involved here.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by nittanygirl

Have before. He takes it as a personal attack for some reason.
I've even said I'm quitting taking it and if that's happening then nothing's happening
Of course I know things happen so I'd be too nervous to go off it.

This makes me really sad.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by agzg

This makes me really sad.

It's pretty awkward, at least on face.

I definitely pay for half a shot every six months. It's (pretty much literally) the least I can do.

[DrPhil]

Sometimes things are about how we present it rather than the overall point.

For instance, if someone thinks you can afford to pay but want the other person to pay half simply as a matter of principle, it can seem silly and like you're trying too hard to prove a point. If it isn't like you all are negotiating the things that he pays for in your relationship, but are only discussing birth control costs, he may wonder "why is THIS the thing that you want to negotiate?"

That can spark annoyance and he can feel like you need to just continue paying as you've always done and find something else to complain about (depending on the tone of your conversations). Afterall, responding to his resistance by saying you'll stop taking it and therefore sex will stop (I assume), is a threat and ultimatum that you have yet to act on. Threats and ultimatums, especially those that you have yet to act on, tend not to work well in relationships. They work better on children.

(Some couples share these kinds of expensives and some couples don't. There's no right or wrong, it's just a matter of what the couple negotiates.)

[agzg]

I don't take hormonal birth control for several reasons, so it's a little more "equal" between live-in and I on who buys the condoms, but it does irk me that in a lot of ways guys see the pill as the woman's business, while reaping all the benefits of having a relationship with a woman on the pill.

ETA: I would agree with you somewhat, DrPhil, but in this case, it seems like she's really having a hard time scraping together the money for the copay. Of course, my threat would be "help me or I'm out" with a follow-through, but I don't pretend to know what works in all relationships. I think if I were on hormonal birth control and in a serious relationship, it would be a dealbreaker for me.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Sometimes things are about how we present it rather than the overall point.

For instance, if someone thinks you can afford to pay but want the other person to pay half simply as a matter of principle, it can seem silly and like you're trying too hard to prove a point. If it isn't like you all are negotiating total costs of your relationship, but are only discussing birth control costs, he may wonder "why is THIS the thing that you want to negotiate?"

That can spark annoyance and he can feel like you need to just continue paying as you've always done and find something else to complain about (depending on the tone of your conversations). Afterall, responding to his resistance by saying you'll stop taking it and therefore sex will stop (I assume), is a threat and ultimatum that you have yet to act on. Threats and ultimatums, especially those that you have yet to act on, tend not to work well in relationships. They work better for kids.

Right - I agree, that's why I went with the "on face" caveat (also I have problems committing to a position, as you all know). The context is everything. I also wanted to brag about being SuperBoyfriend - where's that London barrister douche when you need him?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

ETA: I would agree with you somewhat, DrPhil, but in this case, it seems like she's really having a hard time scraping together the money for the copay. Of course, my threat would be "help me or I'm out" with a follow-through, but I don't pretend to know what works in all relationships. I think if I were on hormonal birth control and in a serious relationship, it would be a dealbreaker for me.

I feel you.

The bolded works if you're prepared for him to say "peace out," not necessarily because he doesn't want to help you pay but because you suddenly became his parent.

I believe in a hiearchy of relationship concerns. Like you said, everyone/every couple has their own list and ranking of concerns.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I also wanted to brag about being SuperBoyfriend - where's that London barrister douche when you need him?

Stop trying to impress me.