Scary Quota Numbers

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by carnation

Wow! You mean down there by Pomfret? Maybe in the old Sig Ep house?

No, not that far down. It was up at the top of the hill in a more contemporary style house (again, my memory is blurred) but I don't think it was on a corner. I guess I am going to ask around and see what I can get others to remember! i a doubting myself now.


[QUOTE]That's an interesting idea, except that I could see many chapters saying thanks but no thanks to a second round of recruitment. It could also really help some PNMs and really hurt others (reputation, grades, activities would all come into play).[QUOTE]

This is already in play during recruitment at SEC schools.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AUAZD2001

I was wondering in this situation if Panhellenic would hold 2 formal recruitments. Maybe the first at the begining of fall semester and the second just afer mid-terms, or at the begining of spring semseter. Set a limit for the numer of PNMs for the first recruitment at 600. First-come, first-serve basis. If a PNM misses the first recruitment she must wait for the second. It would keep the NM classes smaller and give the NMs a chance to bond with each other and the chapter. And any women who miss the first recruitment would have an opportunity to explore other campus activities they might not have otherwise been involved in.

Someone previously mentioned a school that set a limit on the number of PNMs who could sign up, and my view was that it could become a freedom of association issue - interfering with member selection. What happens if your ISP goes screwy the day registration opens and you end up as #602? Also...I don't see what difference a NM class of 60 in the fall and 60 in the spring is going to make as far as bonding with the WHOLE sorority.

What was the old joke about overpopulation - "when we get to standing room only, the situation will resolve itself." When the sororities get large enough that the women are no longer enjoying themselves or feel like what they get for their money is just not worth it, Greek life will become less popular and the pledge class sizes will go down. Either that, or a group of girls will take the bull by the horns and start an interest group and bring a chapter to the school. At this point, an NPC might gamble on that before gambling on a ground up colonization.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When the sororities get large enough that the women are no longer enjoying themselves or feel like what they get for their money is just not worth it, Greek life will become less popular and the pledge class sizes will go down.

Respectful and curious lane swerve/

Do the GC NPCers think this is what it boils down to? Does this go back to previous GC discussions about how lifetime involvement is not stressed during some NPC recruitments? I'm probably using incorrect terminology.

/Respectful and curious lane serve

[33girl]

Well, I'm sure that there are presently women in large chapters who really wish they were in a smaller chapter - or vice versa - who are sticking it out because they know that they will get a lot from alumnae membership.

Is that what you were asking?

Of course, I could be completely off on that last post and women will keep joining sororities at Arkansas even if they get to 600-700 people in a chapter so they can wear the letters, because they feel that alone is worth the $$.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AUAZD2001

I was wondering in this situation if Panhellenic would hold 2 formal recruitments. Maybe the first at the begining of fall semester and the second just afer mid-terms, or at the begining of spring semseter. Set a limit for the numer of PNMs for the first recruitment at 600. First-come, first-serve basis. If a PNM misses the first recruitment she must wait for the second. It would keep the NM classes smaller and give the NMs a chance to bond with each other and the chapter. And any women who miss the first recruitment would have an opportunity to explore other campus activities they might not have otherwise been involved in.

AUAZD, it would go over at Arkansas about as well as it would at AU. Which means all hell would break loose! Can you imagine hundreds of unpledged girls looking at the new sorority members having all that fun during fall semester--going to pep rallies and being in parades, etc.? Whoever said that they could join ___ Club or "whichever sport darlings" would likely be killed on the spot. Just imagine it!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, I'm sure that there are presently women in large chapters who really wish they were in a smaller chapter - or vice versa - who are sticking it out because they know that they will get a lot from alumnae membership.

Is that what you were asking?

Of course, I could be completely off on that last post and women will keep joining sororities at Arkansas even if they get to 600-700 people in a chapter so they can wear the letters, because they feel that alone is worth the $$.

That is what I was asking. Let's see if I can word this correctly:

There are people who do not want to be a part of large chapters (maybe they have heard that it is no longer worth the money and time) so they may not go through NPC recruitment. The difference between that and councils and conferences that have alumnae/alumni/graduate initiation is that these PNMs are foregoing possibly their only chance to become a member.

[33girl]

You are correct.

To flip your curious & respectful question...Jane has decided she wants to be a DST, she's done her research, no questions about her choice. She gets to school and sees lines of 100 people. Jane does not like this concept so she decides not to pursue undergrad membership. When she graduates, she starts pursuing membership in a graduate chapter. Is "I didn't want to be in such a huge line" a valid reason if she's asked why she didn't join as an undergrad?

There have been a few NPC AI stories on here that basically went like that...the chapters at my school were huge and I was afraid to rush/didn't have the money/failed in rush. I think a lot of how this goes over depends on how the woman represents herself. That is, if she just says "I'm an XYZ! I went to BigStateU!" people might give her the Blanche Devereaux SideEye. No you don't have to tell your life story, but to represent yourself as something you aren't by omitting details is always bogus. This is why I think if NPC in general wants to make AI a bigger part of membership, all the groups need to have designated AI chapters.

[wavycutchip]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Do the GC NPCers think this is what it boils down to? Does this go back to previous GC discussions about how lifetime involvement is not stressed during some NPC recruitments? I'm probably using incorrect terminology.

From a recruitment standpoint, as a wise woman on GC once said about Pref night, sororities are trying to find the right mix of messages that will 'speak' to the pnms through recruitment. Unfortunately, I would say the vast majority of 18-19 year old PNMs going through recruitment are not thinking about the lifetime involvement in the sorority (in fact, if you look at alumnae involvement across NPC sororities, I'm not sure that it is that important to most alumnae - but that is another topic for another thread), but rather how will joining any of these sororities help me through my college career (socially, academically, emotionally, etc). Making a big deal about lifetime involvement could be perceived as strange during recruitment and a turn-off to many PNMs, but should be a focus throughout the new member and member education program.

I will say that now that most sororities are moving towards a "values-based" recruitment, I think that lifetime involvement will have more of (and I would say should have) a place in the recruitment process.

Poor Hootyhoo, all she wanted to know was ways to help create sisterhood and manage large chapter and pledge class size. Hooty - I hope that you have gotten some answers!

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, I'm sure that there are presently women in large chapters who really wish they were in a smaller chapter - or vice versa - who are sticking it out because they know that they will get a lot from alumnae membership.

Is that what you were asking?

Of course, I could be completely off on that last post and women will keep joining sororities at Arkansas even if they get to 600-700 people in a chapter so they can wear the letters, because they feel that alone is worth the $$.

I wouldn't say it is necessarily just to wear the letters, but you are on the right track in my opinion. At some schools, being greek is so desirable that the quality of the experience may be less of an issue than at other schools. I went to a school where it was very hard to be a non-greek. So, even girls that weren't OMG Sorority Girls! tended to join because it was expected socially. They took what they wanted from the experience.

[33girl]

Yeah, when I say "wear letters" I also mean be Greek, not just literally wear the letters.

I understand that more than I understand some of the "letter pimps" or "jacket sisters" at schools where Greek life is a take it or leave it thing - not a necessity but not looked down on, just an option - but they seem to think they HAVE to be in a sorority, even if they can't stand the sisters and never show up to things.

[Football Fan]

The University of Southern California is now open for expansion. Over 900 women signed up last year for recruitment at a private university where only nine chapters participate in formal recruitment. The tenth chapter does informal.

If you think it would be expensive to build a beautiful chapter house in Arkansas including the cost of land, imagine what a national will have to consider in Los Angeles. Land and building costs are much higher in California and a chapter would need to have a location on the "Row".

[oncegreek]

Does USC own any of the houses of chapters that have closed at USC?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Football Fan

If you think it would be expensive to build a beautiful chapter house in Arkansas including the cost of land, imagine what a national will have to consider in Los Angeles. Land and building costs are much higher in California and a chapter would need to have a location on the "Row".

It's not so much just the cost of building the house. It's that coupled with the poor PH environment on that particular campus. If PH isn't supportive of a new chapter, you could be throwing a lot of money down a black hole. And the university, unlike Alabama, is not presently providing any bond money, etc. So the cost of the house, the cost of a mortgage on the open market, a negative PH environment don't add up to a promising situation.

[carnation]

I can't figure out Arkansas. On the one hand, every sorority member I've know there has bemoaned the huge quotas and associated problems. On the other hand, I keep hearing about the poor PH environment regarding expansion.

Wake up, Arkansas! You're shooting yourselves in the foot!

[gee_ess]

Arkansas is a poor environment (if you must call it that) because it is a competitive Southern school. Greek affiliation is very competitive and that is complicated by the strong tradition of 'pledging where your mother pledged." So, I can see that as a difficult or negative aspect of the campus. But surely that is not more of a negative factor at Arkansas than it is at, say, Alabama or Florida.

Now, on the other hand, I do think that the panhellenic office/"powers that be" tend to have a negative influence on Greek Life. We struggle with leadership (not pan members but paid employees). And poor leadership has a negative impact on any organization.