Probates! - Page 5

christiangirl · #61 06-04-2010, 12:07 AM

Wait, I'm confused. So what is the difference between a "probate" and a "coming out show?" From the context of this thread, it looks as though probate is a show that happens before initiation (and seems to be something negative). Is that what y'all are saying? Because I've only ever heard the two used interchangeably, no difference at all.

And yes, I Googled before asking but all that came up was a bunch of legal stuff, that Kevin probably put out there just to confuse me.

Though this was good for a laugh--gotta love people going off on usernames: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1103024AAjY9pA

rhoyaltempest · #62 06-04-2010, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Wait, I'm confused. So what is the difference between a "probate" and a "coming out show?" From the context of this thread, it looks as though probate is a show that happens before initiation (and seems to be something negative). Is that what y'all are saying? Because I've only ever heard the two used interchangeably, no difference at all.

And yes, I Googled before asking but all that came up was a bunch of legal stuff, that Kevin probably put out there just to confuse me.

Though this was good for a laugh--gotta love people going off on usernames: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1103024AAjY9pA

Some members today use the words "probate" and "Coming out show" or "neo show" interchangeably, however a true probate was an extension (on HBCU campuses and some other campuses) of the NPHC former pledge process. The key word here being "former." Since no one should be pledging these days, true probates should also not occur. A probate is not in itself negative however since pledging is in the past, probating should be also. What you see on youtube are coming out or neo shows although some are still using the word probate and they really shouldn't be. There are similarities between a probate and coming out or neo show but they are not the same.

christiangirl · #63 06-04-2010, 01:41 AM

Wow, I never knew the terms meant anything different at all. Thanks!

Senusret I · #64 06-04-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Wow, I never knew the terms meant anything different at all. Thanks!

They don't anymore. Colloquially, it's been twenty years since true probates have been banned, but we're still using the term, so yeah..... in 2010, it's a probate.

DrPhil · #65 06-04-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I

They don't anymore. Colloquially, it's been twenty years since true probates have been banned, but we're still using the term, so yeah..... in 2010, it's a probate.

You're so "it is what it is." There's a reason why the word is still being used and it isn't because most post-1990 members don't know the difference. Afterall, older members were/are still around.

As for what's in the youtube videos, as I said before, only those who know, know whether the people in the videos have actually "crossed." Generally speaking, those are "coming out shows" on youtube. But, I say that out of generalized assumption and habit because I don't know 95% of the (usually younger membered) chapters who care enough to put videos on youtube. So, I don't know whether all were initiated at the time of the show or whether some were to be initiated right after the show. The same goes for "coming out shows" that aren't on youtube.

rhoyaltempest · #66 06-04-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I

They don't anymore. Colloquially, it's been twenty years since true probates have been banned, but we're still using the term, so yeah..... in 2010, it's a probate.

Since there is a distinct difference between a probate and a coming out show, and many undergrads do know the difference, the two terms continue to exist currently and not everyone uses them interchangeably.

Senusret I · #67 06-04-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Since there is a distinct difference between a probate and a coming out show, and many undergrads do know the difference, the two terms continue to exist currently and not everyone uses them interchangeably.

Most do.

rhoyaltempest · #68 06-04-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You're so "it is what it is." There's a reason why the word is still being used and it isn't because most post-1990 members don't know the difference. Afterall, older members were/are still around.

As for what's in the youtube videos, as I said before, only those who know, know whether the people in the videos have actually "crossed." Generally speaking, those are "coming out shows" on youtube. But, I say that out of generalized assumption and habit because I don't know 95% of the (usually younger membered) chapters who care enough to put videos on youtube. So, I don't know whether all were initiated at the time of the show or whether some were to be initiated right after the show. The same goes for "coming out shows" that aren't on youtube.

I think this is an accurate general assumption since most would not dare put a true probate online and if you read the comments of most videos, you can tell that members have "crossed."

BluPhire · #69 06-04-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I think this is an accurate general assumption since most would not dare put a true probate online and if you read the comments of most videos, you can tell that members have "crossed."

And don't get started on crossing Nationally and crossing chapter(for those chapters that still hold to that tradition). That definitely throws a wrench in what you might be watching.

DrPhil · #70 06-04-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluPhire

That definitely throws a wrench in what you might be watching.

Yeah my point is that we don't always know what we're watching in some cases.

I rarely watch those shows on youtube (only stepshows should be on youtube as far as I'm concerned) and I definitely don't read the youtube comments.

preciousjeni · #71 06-04-2010, 04:22 PM

For the record, there are schools that not only allow, but regulate above-ground pledging, including surfacing. Granted, these schools are mostly in the northeast as far as I know.

I attended a public surfacing this past spring for which the Greek Life director had sent out a mass email invitation to the campus Greeks letting them know they were welcome to attend. Based on attestations by the organization itself as well as the pledge-like behavior of the individuals for some time after the show, it was understood that they had not yet been initiated.

Then, there's another organization on the same campus that surfaces their pledges, but not openly. They invite select people to attend.

Drolefille · #72 06-04-2010, 04:33 PM

What I think of everytime I see this thread pop up under New Posts:

Quote:

Roger Rabbit: Yeah. Check the probate. Why, my Uncle Thumper had a problem with HIS probate, and he had to take these big pills, and drink lots of water.

Eddie Valiant: Not prostate, you idiot, PROBATE!

knight_shadow · #73 06-04-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

For the record, there are schools that not only allow, but regulate above-ground pledging, including surfacing. Granted, these schools are mostly in the northeast as far as I know.

That irks me to no end.

My alma mater has started requiring the MGC organizations to have a "mass probate/coming out/showcase" at the end of each semester. Even if the students haven't been initiated, all organizations are required to participate.

Many of the older organizations (that have done coming out shows in the past and don't completely bite other organizations' styles) have been upset about it and will typically bring current members on to talk about their respective organizations. The newer organizations (who obviously searched for "Probating 101" on Youtube) will emulate the NPHC organizations' styles, including chants, steps, etc. Their new (or soon to be new) members usually have no idea what's going on, but will try to carry those things over into their active semesters.

I know that if it annoys me, it must be frustrating to the members of the NPHC community here.

DrPhil · #74 06-04-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

For the record, there are schools that not only allow, but regulate above-ground pledging, including surfacing.

There aren't any schools that formally (documented) do this for NPHC orgs. Some schools may informally do so and that's an extremely unwise (and rare) decision on their part.

preciousjeni · #75 06-04-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

My alma mater has started requiring the MGC organizations to have a "mass probate/coming out/showcase" at the end of each semester. Even if the students haven't been initiated, all organizations are required to participate.

I would flip. During my time both on the National Board and as a chapter advisor, I've seen Greek Life offices/campus councils do some crazy things. I can usually work something out either where I get my way or where we come to a good compromise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

There aren't any schools that formally (documented) do this for NPHC orgs. Some schools may informally do so and that's an extremely unwise (and rare) decision on their part.

Add to my post "for organizations that pledge" which usually means Latino/multicultural orgs these days.