Can't afford your house? Here is an easy fix, let taxpayers do it.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I think people like cheerfulgreek realize that.

Desperation and anti-Bush sentiments are why people acted and sometimes act like they don't understand that. I won't get on the Obama rant but I'll say that my predictions during the election came true. He was celebrated for being a great orator and charismatic speaker and leader for NO REASON. Reality has sunk in and people aren't getting the "boom boom clack" (a la Making the Band) that they dumbly assumed they would get. Reality bites, bitches!!!!!!!!

Perhaps this is why I'm not disillusioned. I agreed with his platform, I see parts of his platform being implemented and I'm pleased with that. Perhaps my expectations were more real?

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I knew what you were referring to, but I didn't say I wasn't going to vote for anyone.

No, it's just that we're spending money in so many other parts of the world, and not tending to our own backyard. We owe so much money, our economy is screwed up etc. And this is isn't all Bush's fault. This all started before him. He just made it worse. And the Middle East has been doing this since forever. What makes anyone think the US can go in and change things over there?

We just have two different opinions, Dee.

I agree completely that we need to spend a lot less on other countries and more on our own. This is why I get so angry when people bash Obama for running up the deficit to help our own people. I didn't hear this same kind of bashing on Bush for the Iraq War, which cost far more than the bailout has.

I don't think the US can change the Middle East, but I do think we have to take action against those who planned 9/11. It is a retaliation thing. The problem is, we were far too distracted by Iraq to really focus on this and it almost seems like it's too late to bother with now. It should have been finished years ago and we look like idiots no matter what happens now.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Perhaps this is why I'm not disillusioned. I agreed with his platform, I see parts of his platform being implemented and I'm pleased with that. Perhaps my expectations were more real?

If life were so cut and dry then I'd say "YES, AGDEE'S EXPECTATIONS WERE MORE REAL."

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by epchick

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan started before Bush? I don't think so.

The economy falling started before Bush? It was probably on a slight decline when Clinton left office, but Bush's policies made the economy fall even faster.

Yes, most of our problems did stem from the Bush administration, like it or not.

Do I think Obama's doing a fantastic job? No. Yet you can't say that all our problems stemmed from Obama's administration.

Our problems in the Middle East did start before Bush. Way before Bush.

Did I say ALL the problems stemmed from Obama's administration? No, I didn't. I just said I wasn't going to vote for him, because he hasn't done anything any other president hasn't already done, or attempted to do. Everyone (including me) made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread, when he's just like the rest that have come and gone.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by epchick

Our craptastic economy? Umm again, the fault of the Bush administration.

Yes, most of our problems did stem from the Bush administration, like it or not.

Or began long before he was encouraged (I believe all politicians are ploys and they often run for office when they don't want to) to run for office.

The world doesn't have an ON and OFF switch. There are trickle down effects for everything and the outcomes of policies, laws, and social practices can take years upon years to come to fruition. Also, Bush didn't have any platform or decisions that were not made by a team of people. The same goes for Obama.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Our problems in the Middle East did start before Bush. Way before Bush.

Yeah, I do believe the perceived problems in the Middle East began before I was born and I've been hearing them since I was little.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

That's the thing though. We weren't going to destroy terrorism. We were going to Afghanistan after an organization that committed an act of war against us, and those who were harboring them.

But that organization is all over. There over here, too. What we're doing is equivalent to you trying to get rid of all the parasites on your body. Good luck trying.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah, I do believe the perceived problems in the Middle East began before I was born and I've been hearing them since I was little.

Exactly. It's been happening before this country was even founded. But the Big Bad US is going to be the hero and change things.
--whatever.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Exactly. It's been happening before this country was even founded. But the Big Bad US is going to be the hero and change things.
--whatever.

Now, I'm wondering what Middle Eastern "issues" you're talking about. LOL.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah, I do believe the perceived problems in the Middle East began before I was born and I've been hearing them since I was little.

The "problems" in the Middle East started when Islam and Christianity started. Waaaaaaaaaay before we were born.

This starts getting into more a religious discussion (especially when concerned with Islam, since their politics are based on their religion) but the problems will continue unless Islam decides to change some of their doctrines.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I just said I wasn't going to vote for him, because he hasn't done anything any other president hasn't already done, or attempted to do.

I don't understand the bolded. Just because something was tried before and failed, he doesn't deserve credit for actually getting it done?

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I don't think the US can change the Middle East, but I do think we have to take action against those who planned 9/11. It is a retaliation thing. The problem is, we were far too distracted by Iraq to really focus on this and it almost seems like it's too late to bother with now. It should have been finished years ago and we look like idiots no matter what happens now.

Yep. I agree with this, Dee.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Now, I'm wondering what Middle Eastern "issues" you're talking about. LOL.

I mean, they've been fighting over there over something that has been going on for thousands of years. That's why I said they're fighting an ideal, we're fighting a war. What makes us think we're going to change it?

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I don't understand the bolded. Just because something was tried before and failed, he doesn't deserve credit for actually getting it done?

Vito, I give him credit for getting it done, it's just that I don't agree with what it is he got done.

[agzg]

Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT the same thing and anyone who doesn't know that is an idiot.

The War in Afghanistant and the GWOT* are not the same thing and anyone who doesn't know that should do some reading.

The GWOT is all hyperbole, as is the War on Drugs. Anyone who believes that there is an actual War on Terror is an idiot.

*Global War on Terror

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by agzg

The GWOT is all hyperbole, as is the War on Drugs. Anyone who believes that there is an actual War on Terror is an idiot.

Reminds me of a quote I read by a politician, though I forget who. He compared calling it the War on Terror the same thing as calling WWII the War on Blitzkrieg.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by agzg

Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT the same thing and anyone who doesn't know that is an idiot.

The War in Afghanistant and the GWOT* are not the same thing and anyone who doesn't know that should do some reading.

The GWOT is all hyperbole, as is the War on Drugs. Anyone who believes that there is an actual War on Terror is an idiot.

*Global War on Terror

QFT