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  #61  
Old 02-05-2006, 06:17 PM
Wolfman Wolfman is offline
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The Cushite-
I do generally agree with your concerns. Spirituality and religion are such ambiguous terms. In a real sense, there is not "traditionless" religion and spirituality. Being a Christian believer means that "faith without works" is dead and everyone who says "Lord,Lord" is not going to enter God's kingdom. Following in the way of Jesus Christ, the religion that is the background and putative ideological support for much conservative thougth, doesn't leave one to simply advocate conventional conservative social thought and palm it off as "Christian." It's Christian if it leads us, in our personal and political life, to order our lives in the way of self-giving love and away from greed, the use of power for personal or group self-aggrandizement, and the abuse of others humans beings, who are created in God's image. This is not a new issue: the apostle Paul expends great energy to teach his disciples in the churches he found that they were not to assimilate their new faith and life within the parameters of Greco-Roman socio-political thought and praxis, from current construals of race/ethnicity/gender to how one curries politcal and social favor in that world based on wealth,power,prestige,etc. Our problem is we've done the same thing and have been rendered practically inable, in many instances, to offer true, effective Christian social and political critiques that are the basis for doing the work of societal renewal. This is just what Dr. King was doing,and there are others like William Stringfellow who set about to articulate a "Christian" social and political critique and vision.
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  #62  
Old 03-15-2006, 04:11 AM
PhDiva PhDiva is offline
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Very interesting and engaging thread....(sorry to join in so late)

I wanted to address the following:

Quote:
It's interesting to me that right before Dr. King died that he started addressing poverty (and class) issues, but it seems that most of the thinkers/social activists/politicians in the United States were quick to let this issue fall by the wayside.
Class is often not addressed in the US in part because any discussion of class naturally lends itself to a critique of capitalism and as others have stated, capitalism is the driving economic force in this country. If we examine capitalism closely, we have to acknowledge that the form of capitalism practiced in the US and elsewhere doesn't promote a truly free market economy if things like race and gender are used as artifical barriers to folks' full participation in the economy. I could get with capitalism and buy the whole free market rhetoric that is often attached to political and social conservatives if people were rewarded based on competence, strong work ethic, high performance. But all of us here know countless examples of how incomptent white men and women are promoted by the virtue of their whiteness and access to the social networks used to move up in a company.

I say all of this to say that when Blacks began actively (1) critiquing capitalism and (2) looking for alternatives in socialism during the 1940's, this caused such a stir among white political leaders that the passports of activists such as Paul Robeson, W.E.B. DuBois and William Patterson of the Civil Rights Congress were revoked. The mere critique of race relations in the United States meant a person was labeled as a socialist and thus meant you were attacking the very fabric of American society - capitalism. Conservatives (and Southern Dixiecrats like George Wallace) have been very protective of capitalism and have used the charge of being a socialist numerous times in order to silence any type discussion about racial discrimination. Domestic anti-communism guided much of the American political scene during the 1940-1960's creating a hysteria such that any group seeking substantive change with regards to civil rights were thought to have conspired with the communists. During the Cold War through the 1960's, discussing civil rights and class was akin to committing treason and lead to charges of radicalism.

So when King because dealing with the issue of poverty, this meant he was preparing to challenge the economic status quo and this created many enemies for King. Old guard Black civil rights activists weren't ready to address the sticky issue of class. Leading marches and rallies to call for the end of police harassment of black folks or to push for the end of segregated schools were one thing but asking whites to give up a portion of their money and resources was an entirely different issue. People often say how they believe in equality and justice (in the abstract), but ask them if they are willing to part with some of earned/unearned wealth and all of the equality talk goes right out the window. The conversation about class fall by the wayside because we're not ready to be taxed or give up some material wealth in order for this equality to be achieved.

Black educational attainment and economic independence scares white business and political leaders (regardless of political affliation) because for capitalism to survive, someone needs to be at the bottom of the food chain. While I am not a socialist by any means, I do believe that capitalism as it is practice in the US is fraught with contradictions. Pull yourself by your bootstraps said Booker T. Washington but for many of our brothers and sisters then and now, the question is what if they don't have any boots?

Yes, we all must work hard and put forth an effort in our schooling and in our jobs. There is no good reason why we shouldn't make an effort to better ourselves but to pretend like barriers don't exist in our pursuit of our education and careers is what drives me batty about some black conservatives. Everybody isn't "playing the race card" or on the victimization gravy train as Ward Connerly likes to claim. Some of us have experienced some serious racist, discriminatory treatment and by labeling folks' willingness to speak out against that treatment is just as bad as having the government revoke passports, ruin folks' careers (ala Robeson) and ignore civil rights abuses by labeling folks as socialist and thus unfit for any real consideration.

Now if black conservatives thought like enigma_AKA, I could stomach them much better. There is nothing wrong with having conservative values or pursuing upward social mobility. I would say I have some conservative beliefs about parenting, importance of education, etc. and I sure didn't put myself into debt earning this Ph.D. without desiring a better standard of living. But to act as if everyone should be where I am negates the fact that we have different skills, abilities, desires and opinions of success. Plus, critiquing the black community without actively being engaged in the uplift of the black community is hypocritical to me. Now if someone showed me proof that Ward Connerly or Thomas Sowell or Alan Keyes did community service in the Black community or helped provide scholarships for Black kids to go to college, I'd be more incline to give them a pass. But for Ward claim that ethnic studies programs (i.e. Black Studies) promote the "balkinization of the nation" without having sat through or taught one of these courses lets me know that he's getting paid to say stuff he really knows nothing about. Criticism without activism is just blowing smoke up everyone's asses.

PhDiva
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  #63  
Old 03-15-2006, 03:47 PM
enigma_AKA enigma_AKA is offline
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GET.IT.SAID--LOUD AND CLEAR!!!

The question remains: I know you KNOW, but what are you DOING?

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Quote:
Originally posted by PhDiva
Criticism without activism is just blowing smoke up everyone's asses.

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  #64  
Old 05-11-2006, 09:36 AM
StarFish106 StarFish106 is offline
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For those interested

Joseph C. Williams will be appearing in Philadelphia PA on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 5:30 PM at Zanzibar Blue (Broad & Walnut) for a book signing.

Just passing along
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  #65  
Old 05-31-2006, 01:54 AM
PositivelyAKA PositivelyAKA is offline
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Smile

do you think that the perception of the republican party has prevented some of us from swinging in that direction? or is that we know innately that there is no party that can truly represent us?

i think most of us have been raised to believe that the democratic party is the only real option for us, right or wrong and unfortunately most of us are not going to invest the effort to find out if what we are following is leading us where we really need to go. times change and we as a people need to change as well, we need to constantly reevaluate our positions and priorities.

throwing us a few bones every now and then and popping up in our churches during election time is not good enough. ideally we should have both parties working hard for our votes, it should never be a given that a party will get the black vote, that way they don't take us for granted.

also i don't think any one party can truly represent all of us all the time because we are too diverse of a people. the priorities of a black business owner are not going to be the same as a low income burger king employee. we do share commonalities but at the end of the day, it will come down to what is best for you and your family.
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