Greek acceptance in the church! - Page 5

Optimist Prime · #61 02-27-2002, 10:19 PM

trees? Yeah. I guess so. I need them to breathe. I don't worship them though.

edited because I just figured out what Tom was getting at.

Yes, Tom. I believe that the "power of nature" and the "power of god" are inhereintly the same thing. I also think that anyway you can commune or feel at one with that power then its religion. The stories, parables, psalms, myths, etc. are the outer trapings. The essential of faith is whats beneath that.

Tom Earp · #62 02-28-2002, 05:44 PM

Whew, thnk you Billy for clearing that up for me!

Man trees can give splinters!

I know some people who are Druids and they are Great People, well Brandon is a little strange, but that is Brandon!

I saw Stonehenge when I was In England and is much smaller than pictures. Near By was also another stone grouping but Stoney got the recognition so is on TV!

Ever wonder why there are Pryamids in so many places? The Sphinx did not come fro the same time period, Easter Island and other places had Huge Stone Heads!

Did Jesus Rise as was stated in teh Bible, which by the way was written many years after the fact?

I was in a religious compound in Tenn. and had a mock up of the tomb, hell had square door cover! Dont do much rolling with that!

There is to much that we do not know and maybe never will, but folk lore is passed down and much of it is true!

Well that got entirely off of the subject post!

Kapsig1 · #63 03-21-2002, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Earp

Did Jesus Rise as was stated in teh Bible, which by the way was written many years after the fact?
[/B]

Not NEARLY as many years after most ancient history that you and I accept as FACT! Besides, people were specifically trained and conditioned to retain history back then. The evidence is overwhelming that these "historians" we amazingly accurate.

Just a thought,
Brad

adduncan · #64 11-10-2002, 08:18 PM

Hi folks,
I know I'm a Jane-come-lately on this thread, just ran across it.

One of my personal activities is teaching Sunday School at my parish. (I'm Catholic and I teach the 8th grade, which is church history year.)

FYI, part of the reason some churches were against "secret societies" (not necessarily GLOs in particular tho) is that it was thought that the society would (a) distract the person(s) from their involvement with the church and/or (b) would promote and teach ideals that were directly in conflict w/ their faith, thus forcing the person to make a choice. The ones I'm particularly aware of that came up in this discussion were the KKK (obviously), the Know-Nothings, the FreeMasons, and the Odd Fellows.

The Catholic church in the USA came up with their own solution to this issue and some related ones: create a secret/private society of their own, the Knights of Columbus, which is basically a Catholic fraternity. My husband is both a 4th Degree KoC and a KA Order brother. According to him, there is no conflict between the vows he took in either one.

Just a little info. Hope it helps.
Adrienne

Kevin · #65 11-10-2002, 08:36 PM

As I recall, the Catholic Church has reversed its opinion on secret societies like the freemasons.

It used to mean excommunication.

adduncan · #66 11-10-2002, 08:47 PM

ktsnake--

I just looked it up in a number of resources (ie, NewAdvent.com and the Catholic Encyclopedia.)

According to those sources, the ban against Freemasonry membership for Catholics is still enforced and was clarified in 1983.

(Just as a clarification--I'm only posting information on the subject, and there is no intent to preach, evangelize, etc.)

Adrienne

poodleNtraining · #67 11-11-2002, 12:46 PM

Well, my grandparents were greek, and they wee very Christian. Most orgs that I've been exposed to have been very God-centered. NOt to say that they all have to be, but for those who are Christian, being in a GLO does not mean that you're going to hell. It depends on your personal reasons for joining, what your org does and how you personally participate. I think that also, just the fact that the orgs use Greek letters makes people automatically think "pagan" because Greeks used to be pagans. But if you think about it, some of the first Christians were who, GREEKS. So the greek letters are not just "pagan" in nature.

The only thing really negative with reference to an org and Christianity has been with Freemasonry. I know that they aren't a GLO, but they're considered to be in the same category. I found this article about it, I'll post it for discussion sake. I'm not saying that this is my view or anything, but this is what I found.

Freemasonry
Freemasonry is one of the cultic groups that in these end times have been springing up. It spouts scriptures and sometimes has a veneer of truth, however it can be spotted. They have a defective view of Christ, His deity and His work. They specialize in extra Biblical revelations and have trans-local totalitarian leaders in authority. Commonly they rule the group by "revelations" and "prophecies." Usually there is some form of a pyramiding control of the followers. Freemasons have 33 degrees among their ranks.

Most develop semi-secret sessions for teaching the initiated followers. Exclusivism is taught and there is much violation of the rules of sound Bible interpretation by use of vague passages and semantic juggling to "prove" what the cult teaches.

Fear is the power which holds the group together. Insecurity and maneuvering for power, position and advantage is constant. The misery of being swallowed into such a group is incredible.

Cultic leaders range from openly operating con men to sincere zealots driven by demonic power to achieve their ends. Moral decay and laxness always sets in sooner or later, usually at the top echelons of leadership. Many times the followers are lashed into an ascetic and self sacrificing life style, while leaders secretly indulge their own whims and desires.

The disillusionment and disenchantment which eventually comes destroys many. People who have honestly given their all to a cause, only to discover they have been sold out, have great difficulty readjusting and being able to believe in anybody or anything.

Pagan societies sponsored public worship directed toward idols, while the priests, rulers and philosophers always maintained a different, secret worship centered around a sun god. This latter was designated as the "Mysteries." These "Mysteries" were revived by the "Masonic fathers" at the beginning of the eighteenth century.

In other words what formerly constituted the mysteries of Osiris, Baal, Bacchus or Dionysius is today the mysteries of Freemasonry. Dr. Mackey, Masonic authority, states they are the "same in substance, being derived from one source and celebrated in honor of the same deities."

A converted witch relates that the initiation into Masonry (with two minor changes at the end) is identical to that of witchcraft! By embracing such rituals and vows, rooted in ancient witchcraft and demonic worship, men and women are placing themselves under occult power. The secret signs, passwords, hand grips, etc. which are so highly prized, in reality brings lives under secret bonds and churches are paralyzed where these secret loyalties exist and the Holy Spirit cannot flow freely. Jesus said He had done all things openly and had done nothing in secret, a startling contrast to secret orders which enforce secrecy on their members. We are commanded to renounce the hidden things of darkness Roman 13:12.

Baal was the same as Phoenician Moloch, the Greek Tyrian Hercules (Freemasonry call him Tyrian Architect). He was worshipped on the high places and this is the reason for the "upper chamber" lodge meetings to "worship celestial bodies." According to accredited Masonic historians, the lodge claims to be a revival of the ancient philosophy of Egypt, Phonecia and other Pagan nations. These all practiced a secret worship in honor of a sun god (Lucifer).

Freemasonry is a wicked system of sworn deception, fraud and cunning craftiness from beginning to end. Promoters are always careful, at first, to keep the real meaning of the pretended mysteries in the background, at least until the initiate has taken the Master Masons obligation. By that time he should be so bound that he will not revolt against the bondage he has unsuspectingly moved into.

The Lodge teaches that its three support pillars are Wisdom, Strength and Beauty, and these are borrowed directly from Hindu Mysteries in the initiation of Brahma. The Worshipful Master represents rising sun (east); Senior Warden, setting sun, (west); Junior Warden, the sun at Meredian (south). In every symbol, ceremony and emblem of Freemasonry we are confronted with nothing but the sun god (Lucifer), that ancient Baal worship in every religion from the Druids to Hinduism.

Masons changed names in the Egyptian mysteries from Osiris to Hiram Abiff but retained a similar legend for the initiations. They burned their manuscripts in 1720, interspersed the names of Hiram and Solomon to secure acceptance by Jew and gentile and appropriated the Bible and Apostle John to give it a "Christian" veneer. "Freemasonry both in whole and in part, is literally and truly the secret worship of Baal, or the sun god."

In Deuteronomy 4: 19 God clearly states: When you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars - all the heavenly array - do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshipping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven."

God in Deuteronomy 17:2-3 states: If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns that the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of His covenant, and contrary to my command has worshipped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky.

CUPrez · #68 11-20-2002, 11:52 PM

Speaking of Christianity and Greek Life... There are quite a few Christian sororities and fraternities that were founded by Christians for Christians.

This doesn' t mean that there are not Christians in other organization, because there are! In fact, my own parents belong to other Greek organizations that do not necessarily have a Christian base, and they are very much Christian.

But, there is something to be said for organizations that hold this as their ideal and that unswervingly and unashamedly proclaim Christ and Him crucified. It bothers me when organizations say they have a Christian foundation, but you go to their websites and see ladies with their behinds hanging out. Why even fake it?

CUPrez, Nat'l Pres.
DELTA PSI EPSILON CHRISTIAN SORORITY, INC.
Established in 1992

MTSUGURL · #69 11-21-2002, 12:21 AM

Quote:

It bothers me when organizations say they have a Christian foundation, but you go to their websites and see ladies with their behinds hanging out. Why even fake it?

I agree. One of the fraternities here, which I won't name, has a tradition that when a guy lavaliers his gf they tie the brother naked to a tree and leave him there after they pour stuff all over him, then call his gf to come pick him up. They did this right outside the window of my old apt.

Quite an eyeful on one occasion. They were founded on Christian principles. This to me says they're not living up to the ideals that their founders set up. If your org has a christian foundation, this should be clear by your conduct. Maybe that's just me...

Crystal

Kevin · #70 11-21-2002, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CUPrez
Speaking of Christianity and Greek Life... There are quite a few Christian sororities and fraternities that were founded by Christians for Christians.

This doesn' t mean that there are not Christians in other organization, because there are! In fact, my own parents belong to other Greek organizations that do not necessarily have a Christian base, and they are very much Christian.

But, there is something to be said for organizations that hold this as their ideal and that unswervingly and unashamedly proclaim Christ and Him crucified. It bothers me when organizations say they have a Christian foundation, but you go to their websites and see ladies with their behinds hanging out. Why even fake it?

Why must your organization practice a certain religion to be acceptable? It is what's in YOUR heart that counts. My fraternity was founded when 3 men gathered around a Bible and took an oath to stop the physical and mental abuse present at VMI in 1869. All 3 men were very strong Christians. Today, my fraternity remains in its essence an organization that is very in-line with the Bible's teachings. I don't think Jesus would have had any qualms with our 3 cardinal virtues, Love, Honor and Truth...

We however gladly accept brothers of ALL religions. It is not about religion.. I believe that's why we have church -- a place where religion is the common thread.. It's about brotherhood.

If you have to have religion in common to have a bond that's just fine. I see you're in an exclusively Christian organization and that's fine. It's just not for everyone... Neither is mainstream Greek Life though.

You have to go where your values take you.

I do have a problem with your comment where you seemed to be saying that NONE of us practice our ideals. I think that's a very incorrect and judgemental statement. You know as much about my fraternity and others (with the exception of those we've come in direct contact with) as I know about yours.

CUPrez · #71 11-21-2002, 02:00 AM

Woah,

I think you read into my comments something that was not there...

First of all, all fraternities and sororities have requirements and a membership profile. That's why we are exclusive organizations. Ours happens to be that our members be Christian. They can be apart of any denomination, but we are a sorority for Christian women.

Never did I say that no one was living up to their ideals. I merely stated that those that claim to be Christian and don't follow through are reprehinsible. I believe everyone should do their best to keep their word and uphold their ideals. I didn't say anything about your organization not upholding it's ideals. I don't know where you got that from.

As I stated, there are Christians in other organizations. But, that doesn't mean that they are in a Christian organization. There's nothing wrong with that. But, they shouldn't claim that their organization is Christian if it isn't. That doesn' t make anyone better or worse. I'm just saying that everyone should be real about what their organization really is...

CUPrez

Kevin · #72 11-21-2002, 02:08 AM

And how would you know what that organization really is if you weren't in it?

You wouldn't.

Without studying the reasons an organization was founded and the entire history (much of which many organizations keep secret I'd assume) you'd really have no clue as to the TRUE purpose. Most of our mottos are secret so the only people that truly understand an organization are its members.

Bottom line is that if an organization claims to be Christian in its founding beliefs and principles you'd best take their word for it. You have no right and no factual base to say otherwise.

We just don't exclude others based on religion.

But merely stating that it's reprehensible for individuals not to follow their organization's ideals.. well I'd say to some degree EVERYONE is guilty of that. So why pass judgement on others?

Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone.

kstar · #73 11-21-2002, 07:32 AM

Two things:

One when you read the Phi Kappa Theta website, it says Pope John Paul the SECOND, who was from the USA, but he is not the current pope, that is John Paul the THIRD.

And Two, why do you care so much what the church thinks of you, are you that despret in seeking approval that you have be liked by all? And if it is a Christian thing (I don't know, because I'm Jewish) and if you really get judged by god after you die, won't he be forgiving, isn't that what you preach? Didn't he give you free will for a reason?

CarolinaCutie · #74 11-21-2002, 09:33 AM

This is an interesting topic... Religion is always one thing that people feel VERY strongly about.

As for me, I'm with PinkIce on a lot of points. My organization is founded on Christian principles, and that means a lot to me. I have not been through initiation yet (Friday

), but I know that several of my sisters are religious, and they would not be a member of an organization that was not Christian-based. As I've said before on this board, the use of Bible verses in the Pref night ceremony and the double mention of God in the Creed were two factors that influenced my decision to go Phi Mu. Our chapter even has a weekly optional Bible study. Christianity and being Greek CAN go hand in hand.

My church is not adverse to the Greek community at all. Actually, my decision to rush was heavily influenced by a Delta Zeta from another school who goes to my church. I think some people believe the hype about binge drinking and immoral behavior... but I think Christians in GLOs are working to change those stereotypes.

I would be interested to hear from a member of Chi Omega on this subject. I know we've all seen the website

and truthfully, I WOULD have a problem with their ALLEGED ritual. I'm 100% sure there are many members of Chi Omega who consider themselves Christian... I would like to know how they feel about it. I'm not sure that will ever happen though... it's obviously taboo to talk about ritual on GC for everyone to see.

33girl · #75 11-21-2002, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kstar
Two things:

One when you read the Phi Kappa Theta website, it says Pope John Paul the SECOND, who was from the USA, but he is not the current pope, that is John Paul the THIRD.

Actually, the current Pope is John Paul the Second...

John XXIII 1958-63
Paul VI 1963-78
John Paul I 1978 (he took the names of both previous Popes to honor them...he was only Pope for a couple months)
John Paul II 1978-present - he is from Poland.

Incidentally, there was also a Pope Dionysius.