Something needs to change

[TXDG]

Originally Posted by NerdyGreek

There's an awful lot of (wrong) assumptions being made about me and my daughter on this thread. This is not the stereotypical situation with someone wishing they were in a top tier sorority. More like fish-out-of-water who actually wanted a sorority many snub their noses at.

I don't believe everyone needs to accept a system where girls are meant to feel so bad after going through rush that they feel their only option is to drop out of school. Or where only those that can afford the most expensive houses on campus should be allowed to rush. Or even where it's become common not to actually like the sorority you get a bid from. It's not like this at my alma mater or the university my alumni group is affiliated with and I don't understand why it's accepted at other universities.

How many campuses have Greek systems in the US - 1,000? More? Your daughter literally chose to attend college at one of like 5 schools where rush is legendary for being brutal (even with RFM in place) and the only school I know of that moved rush to mid-fall to reduce the number of freshman women completely withdrawing from the university after rush.

I'm still unclear as to how you and your daughter seem so shocked by the Ole Miss dynamics. Especially with you being Greek. And with her having been on campus for 6+ weeks prior to rush. Ole Miss' reputation, like Indiana's bed rush and the damn 1970's Texas Monthly article that cemented a certain group of University of Texas chapters to permanent top tier status, are well known across most of the country. Ole Miss is just not a campus you can waltz onto assuming rush is going to go your way.

I'm not defending the campus at all, though they have made several good moves to improve the experience for pnms, including variable quota and several recent colonizations.

[stef831]

I agree 100% with all the responses from those much wiser than myself. Ole Miss does for sure have the toughest rush in the country IMO but it has been greatly helped in the last few years with the variable quota and having the girls be more open to seeing the process thru till the end. My daughter is a junior at Ole Miss- currently studying abroad but will join her new sisters in January. While she did not go thru formal recruitment she did go thru COB which was far more laid back and more intimate an experience. She really got to know the house and meet the girls prior to her accepting a bid. I truly despise the leveling or word "tiers" but her house is considered low, and if this puts some girls off and not willing to look past that but see a house for what it is and how it can enhance their experience and life that that a truly sad thing indeed. My girl LOVES it and could not be more proud to call her house home.

It comes right down to what we all have been saying...she needs to give it time and for relationships to develop and for her to get to know how things work. If she doesn't have the time or energy for this, best she drops out now. You are only going to get from it, what you put into it. It takes work but if you are willing I assure you the experience will be more than worth it.

I think really there is no need for anything further to be said on this subject and perhaps someone to close the thread. Anyone agree??

[JLCo]

Originally Posted by NerdyGreek

Back when I was in college, each of the sororities on my campus had their own personality. Recruitment really felt like it was a matching process. More social girls were attracted to one house, another had a much more artsy flair, one was more academic, etc. Houses might evolve, and reputations changed over time, but they were not just randomized groups of girls having to get along. No upper classmen were telling us that "nobody likes their sorority at first." like they are telling my daughter and her friends. And it's not like they all wanted the same house and are disappointed, they all had different favorites.

I am a mom of a recent pledge. I can tell you that she went on approx 15 college tours before making her choice. One of the colleges she visited was a highly ranked, small liberal arts college where Greek dominates the social life. Nearly the entire campus is Greek and it is in a rural environment- so there is little else to do socially. After my daughter's visit (which she extended due to extra invite) from a Friday to attend classes and meet professors that included two nights of Greek on Friday and Saturday, she told me that they have a very distinct Greek life there. She described how different types of people were in each sorority and I believe her descriptions are much like what you are describing. So, what you are describing seems to still exist- just at smaller colleges.

My daughter included Greek life in her assessment of what type of college or university she wanted to attend. We started her sophomore year of high school and discussed whether she wanted to be in a sorority or not. We talked about the benefits of being in a sorority. Since she was NMF, she had quite a few scholarship offers from SEC schools. I found that they had very intense, competitive, expensive sororities and large chapters. I don't think either one of us was very excited about the size of the sorority chapters and that it seemed like the bigger the sorority, the less likely a member would get the chance to live-in. Living-in was an important facet of sorority to my daughter. I will also add that I would have a tough time justifying paying $4,000 - $6,000/ year without the added benefit of her being able to live in. (At her university, the fee for living in the sorority house, including dues is about $11,000).

I guess my opinion is that people who are happy with their environments do better. For that reason, I think college-bound students should do a lot of research and thinking about what environment would be best for them. And since parents are paying for it and they do want the best outcome for their children, they should also be involved.

Ultimately, she chose a college where Greek life did not dominate the social scene because she was not totally sure she wanted to rush. I can tell you though that she spent quite a few days over the summer before she started her freshman year researching all the clubs and activities they had and how many things she was interested in getting involved in. She tried some activities and eventually focussed on 3-4 of them her freshman year and then decided to rush her sophomore year. Her sorority has agreed to excuse her when she has time conflicts from the activities she was already involved in prior to joining the sorority. She is having a great time in college and I think this is a direct result of all the thought that was put into selecting a college that was the right fit.

If your daughter is not enjoying Greek life that much, I think following the advice of some who have posted here to give it some time is a good idea. However, perhaps she could also check out some of the clubs and activities. I am sure there must be many since she is going to a large university. That way, if she drops the sorority, she will already be involved in other things and it will make the transition much easier.

[Ktx]

My daughter is a member of a sorority at Ole Miss. She went to Ole Miss not knowing anyone and was from out of state. Rush was tough, but she was happy with her bid. She would call and complain that she didn't know anyone and felt uncomfortable. I told her she had to put herself out there and go to everything. She did. She met a couple of girls through sisterhood events. Made a couple of friends after a month or so. It wasn't until rush workshop or spirit week or whatever they call it, right before school started back, until she truly fell in love with her sorority. She thought about quitting, but gave it all she had and is happy she did.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by JLCo

I am a mom of a recent pledge. I can tell you that she went on approx 15 college tours before making her choice. One of the colleges she visited was a highly ranked, small liberal arts college where Greek dominates the social life. Nearly the entire campus is Greek and it is in a rural environment- so there is little else to do socially. After my daughter's visit (which she extended due to extra invite) from a Friday to attend classes and meet professors that included two nights of Greek on Friday and Saturday, she told me that they have a very distinct Greek life there. She described how different types of people were in each sorority and I believe her descriptions are much like what you are describing. So, what you are describing seems to still exist- just at smaller colleges.

Was that W&L by any chance?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

Was that W&L by any chance?

My thought was DePauw.

[Momoffour]

My daughter pledged a "low tier" house by choice. She felt more comfortable there and has been very happy with her new sisters. She had a friend that went through with her, and got cut from every house except for the one that my daughter pledged. She attended pref, but did not sign her MRABA. Before bid distribution, she was called and offered a snap bid from my daughter's chapter, but she declined because she was "torn". (Also known as having a bruised ego from being cut.) This girl said that she felt no connection to the 3 or 4 girls that she talked with during rush. Fast forward to 6 weeks later, and the same girl decided to attend a COB party at my daughter's house and actually loved it. They once again offered her a bid and she accepted. She is very happy. (And lucky in my opinion.) The thing that needs to be stressed here is that the formal rush experience may give you a glimpse of a chapter, but it isn't always the full picture. I find it very hard to believe that with a chapter as large as the ones at Ole Miss, your daughter can't find a handful of girls to call 'her people". As far as RFM is concerned, how would it be fair to the girls going through rush if they attended pref at a house where that house could only pledge 20% of the girls attending their pref party?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Momoffour

My daughter pledged a "low tier" house by choice. She felt more comfortable there and has been very happy with her new sisters. She had a friend that went through with her, and got cut from every house except for the one that my daughter pledged. She attended pref, but did not sign her MRABA. Before bid distribution, she was called and offered a snap bid from my daughter's chapter, but she declined because she was "torn". (Also known as having a bruised ego from being cut.) This girl said that she felt no connection to the 3 or 4 girls that she talked with during rush. Fast forward to 6 weeks later, and the same girl decided to attend a COB party at my daughter's house and actually loved it. They once again offered her a bid and she accepted. She is very happy. (And lucky in my opinion.) The thing that needs to be stressed here is that the formal rush experience may give you a glimpse of a chapter, but it isn't always the full picture. I find it very hard to believe that with a chapter as large as the ones at Ole Miss, your daughter can't find a handful of girls to call 'her people". As far as RFM is concerned, how would it be fair to the girls going through rush if they attended pref at a house where that house could only pledge 20% of the girls attending their pref party?

They should include this on the MRABA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3DGator]

Awhile back when I was in school, the university set the total numbers of members that each sorority could have. Quota for each sorority was determined by the number of new members that you needed to bring your house total up to the university total. Sometimes the quota for our house would be as low as 18 and there was no RFM; so, frequently we would have eighty women to our two pref parties and we could only offer bids to 18 or maybe 20. I think that my senior year we had our largest quota set and that was 24. It led to feeling that sororities were sobs and it was not because we did not want to offer bids to more women, but the university had this unrealistic rule as to how big the sorority membership could be.

[Titchou]

There are several schools that have used that method over the years. Thankfully RFM prevails almost everywhere now.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Momoffour

As far as RFM is concerned, how would it be fair to the girls going through rush if they attended pref at a house where that house could only pledge 20% of the girls attending their pref party?

But there's the rub. The rushees/moms who rail against this are convinced that if RFM hadn't forced them to drop so many girls, she would have magically connected and been in that 20%.

[tcsparky]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But there's the rub. The rushees/moms who rail against this are convinced that if RFM hadn't forced them to drop so many girls, she would have magically connected and been in that 20%.

Not realizing that if you didn't make it to the top 50% out of everybody going through to get an invite to the next round, you probably won't make the top 20% when they make their bid lists after Preference!

[PearlGirl13]

Originally Posted by Momoffour

My daughter pledged a "low tier" house by choice. She felt more comfortable there and has been very happy with her new sisters. She had a friend that went through with her, and got cut from every house except for the one that my daughter pledged. She attended pref, but did not sign her MRABA. Before bid distribution, she was called and offered a snap bid from my daughter's chapter, but she declined because she was "torn". (Also known as having a bruised ego from being cut.) This girl said that she felt no connection to the 3 or 4 girls that she talked with during rush. Fast forward to 6 weeks later, and the same girl decided to attend a COB party at my daughter's house and actually loved it. They once again offered her a bid and she accepted. She is very happy. (And lucky in my opinion.) The thing that needs to be stressed here is that the formal rush experience may give you a glimpse of a chapter, but it isn't always the full picture. I find it very hard to believe that with a chapter as large as the ones at Ole Miss, your daughter can't find a handful of girls to call 'her people". As far as RFM is concerned, how would it be fair to the girls going through rush if they attended pref at a house where that house could only pledge 20% of the girls attending their pref party?

I'm happy for your daughter and now I'm even happy for your daughter's new sister. But I think it is time for you to quit reminding us and yourself that your daughter pledged a "low tier" sorority. Let it go. This story was great on it's own - it doesn't matter if she pledged the snowflakiest of all snowflake sororities - she is happy with her choice, you are happy for her and we all need to quit chewing on the tier thing!

[JLCo]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

Was that W&L by any chance?

No. By that time, she had ruled out schools that were more than a 5 hour drive from home.

[JLCo]

I agree. The math supports that RFM helps the girls who probably would not have made it into a top tier sorority get into a middle or lower tier who would have, without RFM, been strung along by the top tier and then ended up with no bid from any tier.

It seems like most who get in the top couple of houses are those who are well connected. Having another 20 minute conversation with a few girls from the top sorority on day 2 or even day 3 is not likely going to make a person connected and get them in there. All of my daughter's dance friends who stayed in state for college got into top tier sororities due to their connections. Once someone from a dance studio gets into the top tier, they pull the younger girls in that they used to dance with.

Originally Posted by carnation

Seven of my daughters have rushed, and I have mixed feelings about RFM. On the one hand, more girls are getting bids and the stronger groups are being forced to drop girls earlier whom they would've strung along until pref parties back in the day. These girls didn't get bids and they never knew what hit them because the sororities had seemed to show interest in them.

and

Originally Posted by tcsparky

Not realizing that if you didn't make it to the top 50% out of everybody going through to get an invite to the next round, you probably won't make the top 20% when they make their bid lists after Preference!