What Not to Say to a Released PNM

[sugar and spice]

Maybe this is just me, but I definitely would not want to talk to an alum if I was cut from all the sororities. I think that -- even if the sorority member got heavily cut during recruitment -- it would be hard to feel comforted by someone who's on the other side and has what I want. Sort of like getting dumped by a guy and then being forced to turn to comfort by his new girlfriend. How much comfort is it when the person you're talking to is a constant reminder of what you don't have? The last person I'd want to talk to right away would be someone in a sorority.

Ideally, I think that there would be two avenues of support for PNMs -- Rho Chis and a trained counselor. Somebody to talk to if you're really upset (like, the girls that get truly depressed), somebody to talk to if you're just a little disappointed. Somebody to talk to if you need to talk to a Greek, somebody to talk to who's removed from the whole situation. A counselor can deal with the emotional aspects while a Rho Chi can keep the girl informed on COB/informal rush and other possibilities. And ideally, both of these would be available for a while after rush, not just immediately after the cuts.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by KLPDaisy
If you do that, I think that the alumnae should be not from sororities that are on that campus. For example if you have ADPi, DZ, Theta, and Pi Phi on that campus, get like a ZTA from the local panhel to do that. If a girl really had her heart set on say, ADPi, and got cut, she would probably feel better talking about it to a neutral third party that understood the process than to an alumna of the sorority that cut her.

I was taking that as a given, or at least have a big enough mix to NOT involve the PNM in question. A skilled counselor is still the very best way to go, however, I see very few schools willing to put out the money for one (or more). The ones who would volunteer their time would probably be in a sorority, so we get a vicious circle.

[irishpipes]

I went to the University of Illinois and rushed in the late 80s. It was the largest rushee group ever, with almost 2,000 rushees. Our rush groups were HUGE and I did not feel like I had a personal connection with the Rho Chis because they were very busy just doing the bare minimum with so many girls in the group. They all were very friendly, just too busy to cope with girls who needed individualized attention.

When I rushed, I preffed the maximum - 3 chapters. However, I suicided AOII. I remember being told that suiciding was not the best way to go, but this wasn't heavily stressed. I was a Greek idiot - first in my family - so I did not realize the disservice I had just done to myself. The Rho Chi didn't look at my pref sheet and tell me this was a bad idea. It was just -"ok, see you tomorrow at the Union!" In retrospect, I think it would have been better if she had asked why I suicided even though I went to 3 parties that day. If nothing else, if I were her I would be curious as to why. (You know, did something bad happen at the other parties, etc.) I suicided because I overheard some girls in my group who knew a lot about sororities talk about it. They had said all along that it was better to suicide and get the house you want than to let PH stick you in a "bad" sorority. I knew so little about Greek life, that this made more of an impression than the canned speech by the Rho Chis. I knew that my other 2 choices were very good chapters on campus. I would have been happy, but my best fit was AOII and I knew it. But, I would rather have been in choices 2 or 3 than not Greek at all. This is a school where Greek life is VERY big. I did not understand just how bad my chances were of getting in a sorority if I suicided. I knew nothing of quota, legacies, etc. (I didn't realize that all of the houses at U of I had enough legacies to fill half a pledge class so it was even more difficult to suicide and get a bid.)

Anyway, I got a phone call, yes, a phone call, by a Rho Chi telling me that I didn't need to go to the bid distribution because I didn't match. There was no discussion. I just said ok. I actually felt bad for the Rho Chi because I thought it was horrible to have her job. I was not going to make it worse by asking her to explain or by breaking down. To make it worse, my roommate was an active in AOII! She would be moving into our dorm room the next day since rush was over. So, I made sure to never let her see that I was devastated because it wasn't her fault and I didn't want her to feel responsible.

Then, about 3 days later, an adult from Panhel (I don't know what her role was) - maybe Greek Life adviser? - called me to tell me that there had been a mistake, and I was welcome to join AOII's pledge class. I asked her what kind of mistake could that be, and she just said it was a computer error and someone from AOII would be calling me. The AOII pledge trainer called soon after. I accepted the offer, never understanding what happened. As I learned more about Greek life, I decided that I had been a snap bid and I just hadn't heard the proper terminology. But, since being on GC, I have found that you aren't eligible for snap bidding if you suicide. So, I never have known what happened. I don't think about it much now, because I love where I ended up and the path that got me there isn't very important. However, it really affected my pledgeship because I always felt unworthy - like I was the pledge that didn't really get into the house on my own merit. If it was an "error" I wish they would have explained it more to me because it sounded fishy and I always felt odd. Plus, I missed my bid night, etc. All's well that ends well, but my very long-winded point is:
1. I should have been counseled STRONGLY before suiciding
2. I should not have been told over the phone that I wasn't matched
3. I should have been told clearly why I was added to the pledge class. If it was a panhel error, they should have explained it more clearly. If it was a snap bid by AOII they should have told me that.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by Lindz928
Are there really schools that open the dorms early ONLY to girls going through rush???? Is that legal?

At both Iowa State and Iowa the residence halls open early for women participating in formal recruitment. You move into your room (the room you were assigned to live in for the first year by the University) and often there are girls on your floor, or the floors above and below you, that have also moved in early--that's who makes up your recruitment group.

Registration for recruitment at these schools costs $150-200 but the majority of that fee covers the cost of food and residence during recruitment week.

[FSUZeta]

good point isukappa. if dorms open early for the pnms to move in for recruitment, the pnms are paying for that-they are not staying there for free. and why would anyone really want to move in a week prior to classes starting with nothing to do?

i guess it would be just as legal as having an all girl dorm, or an all boy dorm, or specifying that smith hall will house those freshmen who think they will major in a science, while jones hall will house students interested in the fine arts(resident colleges).

[PenguinTrax]

Up until this year, the PNMs at FSU all moved in to one dorm, then when the dorms opened up officially, moved again into their permanent placement.

This year FSU opened up the dorms a week earlier, so that it wasn't just PNMs moving in, it was all sorts of people. Big article in the paper about it yesterday in fact. Most parents were in favor because it meant they didn't have to take time off of work to get their kids settled AND it meant the kids could get familiar with campus and the town a full week before classes started.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...l/12435924.htm

I spent my freshman year at UN-Lincoln and wanted to move in the day the dorms opened, not realizing that the only other girls in the dorm were there for Rush (and I wasn't), there was no food service on campus and I was too afraid to admit I'd made a mistake and pretty much stayed in my room for an entire week, afraid to go exploring, lol. Survived on grapes, diet soda and crackers. Everyone on my floor (women) were there to Rush, and I had no clue what that meant at the time.

[carnation]

I really like what BBelle suggested. A lot.

[Rollergirl2001]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Ideally, I think that there would be two avenues of support for PNMs -- Rho Chis and a trained counselor. Somebody to talk to if you're really upset (like, the girls that get truly depressed), somebody to talk to if you're just a little disappointed. Somebody to talk to if you need to talk to a Greek, somebody to talk to who's removed from the whole situation. A counselor can deal with the emotional aspects while a Rho Chi can keep the girl informed on COB/informal rush and other possibilities. And ideally, both of these would be available for a while after rush, not just immediately after the cuts. [/B]

I agree about having two paths of support. There will be some girls that take longer to get over with rejection than others. There are a few girls that have never been rejected for anything in their lives. Rejected girls need time to heal. Rejection is like a plateau where you would feel fine and then feel upset and so on and so on.

[AXO_MOM_3]

Originally posted by honeychile
I was taking that as a given, or at least have a big enough mix to NOT involve the PNM in question. A skilled counselor is still the very best way to go, however, I see very few schools willing to put out the money for one (or more). The ones who would volunteer their time would probably be in a sorority, so we get a vicious circle.

I agree with the fact that most people who would be willing to volunteer the time would be sorority alums. I think most skilled and trained counselors would also be aware of their own biases and would be able to counsel accordingly. I feel confident in my own skills to counsel from a panhellenic standpoint anywhere but the university where my own Alpha Chi Omega chapter resides!

[AXO_MOM_3]

Originally posted by Rollergirl2001
I agree about having two paths of support. There will be some girls that take longer to get over with rejection than others. There are a few girls that have never been rejected for anything in their lives. Rejected girls need time to heal. Rejection is like a plateau where you would feel fine and then feel upset and so on and so on.

This is true too! So many people treat this like "okay, it's been a week now, time to get over and move on to something else." It does take time to heal, and these girls may need support for several weeks or even months afterward. Having some sort of support system in place for this would be a good thing.

Personally, I think this is also a place where women's own "cattiness" comes in to play as well. We all know girls who have been dropped from recruitment, and need to evalutate our own behavior towards them as well. So what if every sorority dropped her because has a bad reputation, or because she was shy and not very talkative, or simply because sisters overlooked a great girl because of release numbers. Whatever the reason, it does not mean that we have to whisper about that girl when we see her or ostrasize her forever because she did not get a bid. Call me silly, but I still believe in the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would have them do to you, or treat others the way you would like to be treated. Does not mean that we need to hang out with them or have a long conversations in the hallways with them, but we can at least respect them for making the effort to go through the recruitment process and nod or say hello to them once in awhile.

[Rollergirl2001]

Originally posted by AXO_MOM_3
This is true too! So many people treat this like "okay, it's been a week now, time to get over and move on to something else." It does take time to heal, and these girls may need support for several weeks or even months afterward. Having some sort of support system in place for this would be a good thing.

Personally, I think this is also a place where women's own "cattiness" comes in to play as well. We all know girls who have been dropped from recruitment, and need to evalutate our own behavior towards them as well. So what if every sorority dropped her because has a bad reputation, or because she was shy and not very talkative, or simply because sisters overlooked a great girl because of release numbers. Whatever the reason, it does not mean that we have to whisper about that girl when we see her or ostrasize her forever because she did not get a bid. Call me silly, but I still believe in the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would have them do to you, or treat others the way you would like to be treated. Does not mean that we need to hang out with them or have a long conversations in the hallways with them, but we can at least respect them for making the effort to go through the recruitment process and nod or say hello to them once in awhile.

Exactly! Also, dropped PNMs can be catty too. What I mean is that PNM can act hostile to a sorority sister (i.e. giving dirty looks), and that would be a VERY BAD thing. Also, when girls get dropped, some would be like, "Whatever, I don't need to be in a sorority. They don't need a person like me." I think that comes froms a girl that either wants to be in a sorority for the wrong reasons (or no reasons at all) or a girl that has low self-esteem.

The bottom line, PNMs that don't get a bid and act catty about it are jealous. Jealousy always and will never get a person anywhere in life.

Another person to talk is a RA (resident advisor) who is not involved in a sorority. If an RA on your floor is not involved in a soroity, talk to her. She can help the girl heal, and that is one of the many non-Greek people to talk to. If the RA is involved with a sorority and the PNM (on the same floor) is too upset to talk to her, she should talk to other RA in the building (non-Greek of course). RAs may be in charge and may not be on the same floor as the PNM, but they are here to help (at most situations). Nine times out of ten, they've been in school longer than the PNM.

[trojangal]

I agree with much of what has been said on here. I can't tell you how important it is for the campus to have someone available to work with the PNMs who are released. This is why I think it would be helpful for groups to have "Alumnae Ro Chis" to help during recruitment to talk to the young women who are released.

I'll admit that when I went through rush, I was totally ignorant about the whole process. When I rushed, I had been dropped as well another young woman. I never knew how her Ro Chi handled it; mine, unfortunately, was awful. Invites were distributed in the mornings in envelopes under the doors by a certain time, usually before breakfast, so the girls could make their choices. When I was released, my Ro Chi just told me "You've been dropped." That's it. I didn't know I could go home. I didn't know what to do, especially being away from home ever for the first time, and not knowing a soul. It took me two days to call my mom and tell her that I hadn't been picked up. One girl in the group was awesome, and she sat with me while I cried. For the remainder of Rush, we had to stay in the dorms and watch other girls get ready. Of course, we were encouraged to go off campus if it bothered us to be around while others were getting ready--not that anyone ever had an idea where we could go in a small town. Nobody ever mentioned COB either, especially when chapters didn't make quota.

This is one of the reasons that I also believe that schools should be required to put in their Recruitment literature the following two statements:

PNMs who are thinking about Recruitment should contact their Panhellenic chapter in their hometown for assistance with recommendations for the NPC groups. To find out the chapter contact in your town, contact the NPC HQ or go to their website at: www.npc.org .

It is possible that a woman may be released from recruitment. Going through recruitment does not guarantee a bid to a young woman.

That lets the girls know UP FRONT the importance of recs as well as the possibility of not getting a bid. And the last sentence does not need to be in small print on the last page of the Recruitment literature.

* For those of you who know of girls who are dropped, please be sensitive to them. Let them know that they are still good people. This is a time where their self-esteem has just taken a good whack.
* Don't ignore the women, either. In some places, the girls who are rushing are isolated on campus a week before rush. This makes it tough on dropped PNMs who don't know anything about the town they are in or don't know anyone.

*Please be supportive of any decisions they make about transferring. It is not uncommon for a woman to switch schools in the South b/c of being dropped. This woman doesn't want the tag "she's the one who got dropped" to follow her around on campus immediatley. Allow her the opportunity to have a fresh start if she chooses to transfer.

* Most of all, don't say " But I was sure you were going to get invited back to XYZ " or "But you're a legacy...".

* Think if it were your daughter/niece/cousin/best friend's daughter who was dropped. How would you want her to be treated?

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by AXO_MOM_3
Whatever the reason, it does not mean that we have to whisper about that girl when we see her or ostrasize her forever because she did not get a bid. Call me silly, but I still believe in the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would have them do to you, or treat others the way you would like to be treated. Does not mean that we need to hang out with them or have a long conversations in the hallways with them, but we can at least respect them for making the effort to go through the recruitment process and nod or say hello to them once in awhile.

Agreed 110% - last year I heard from a few recruitment counselors that some PNM's were in the bathrooms between events, and sorority women were in their discussing THEM! I believe that once your membership selection is over for each event, then you should zip it up. There should be NO talking about a PNM outside of membership selection.

After recruitment is said & done, the sorority women should be cordial to the people that went through - regardless of whether or not they joined another house (especially on a small campus where people can and DO talk!)

[Rollergirl2001]

Originally posted by trojangal
[B]I'll admit that when I went through rush, I was totally ignorant about the whole process. When I rushed, I had been dropped as well another young woman. I never knew how her Ro Chi handled it; mine, unfortunately, was awful. Invites were distributed in the mornings in envelopes under the doors by a certain time, usually before breakfast, so the girls could make their choices. When I was released, my Ro Chi just told me "You've been dropped." That's it. I didn't know I could go home. I didn't know what to do, especially being away from home ever for the first time, and not knowing a soul. It took me two days to call my mom and tell her that I hadn't been picked up. One girl in the group was awesome, and she sat with me while I cried. For the remainder of Rush, we had to stay in the dorms and watch other girls get ready. Of course, we were encouraged to go off campus if it bothered us to be around while others were getting ready--not that anyone ever had an idea where we could go in a small town. Nobody ever mentioned COB either, especially when chapters didn't make quota.

I feel your pain. When I went through rush last year, I was dropped after Philantrophy Day. I would cry for days, even in the bathroom between classes. Thank goodness that no one was in the bathroom with me. On the day I was dropped, I moped in bed after classes. I was too upset to eat. The next day, when I saw the girls in thier dresses for Pref night, I became sad, hostile, and frustrated.

I admit that I was jealous, but the jealousy went away along with time. I put my head back up high and realize that I'm a beautiful and nice girl and the rush experience will not keep me down.

[KSUViolet06]

I found this statement on the University of Oklahoma's Panhellenic recruitment information page:

"Participation in formal recruitment DOES NOT guarantee an invitation to join a sorority...."

I think EVERY Panhellenic recruitment page needs to include this statement. And it needs to be stressed in all recruitment info sessions/orientations.