balanced man vs traditional

[33girl]

Originally posted by TrueSPE
RLC stands for Residential Learning Community, nationals' retarded new name for "fraternity house."

Please tell me you're kidding.

(checks national website)

Oh my Lord, you're not.

But it says all that stuff about having a faculty fellow etc - are there houses out there that don't have that and are just, well, normal fraternity houses?

[PsychTau2]

Originally posted by 33girl
Please tell me you're kidding.

(checks national website)

Oh my Lord, you're not.

But it says all that stuff about having a faculty fellow etc - are there houses out there that don't have that and are just, well, normal fraternity houses?

33girl,

There are plenty of SigEp houses out there that are just "chapter houses" without the faculty fellow. RLC is a fairly new direction that SigEp is taking, especially with some of the larger houses on larger campuses. From what I understand, the faculty fellow doesn't live in, but they visit the house every week (some have an office in the house like their faculty office) and are there to help brothers out academically, lead discussions, etc. It's a heavier faculty advisor presence.

PsychTau

ETA: There's a big push on college campuses towards setting up residential learning communities in Res Life. What used to be called "dorms" have since become "residence halls" and are now becoming "residential learning communities".

[KNOW-wun]

A Baldwin Wallace student accused in the death of a (SPE) fraternity brother was sentenced to three years in prison after making a deal with prosecutors, NewsChannel5 reported.

Adam Gaydos, 20, pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the January 2005 death of Brent Jones.

Gaydos admitted to punching Jones during a dorm fight. Jones later died from his injuries.

Gaydos can apply for judicial after serving two years of his sentence.

[SigEpSC-A]

Traditional is definitely that way to go. It also gets you alot more respect from other fraternities. Everyone thinks of BM chapters as like insta-brothers. I don't know, personally I think the whole idea of pledging is the basis of a fraternity. Otherwise it almost seems to border on social club. It teaches respect, responsibility, and it bring you alot closer together, especially with your pledge brothers. I am so glad South Carolina is traditional. It makes you feel like you earned your spot in the fraternity, you deserve to be there. All of you guys in a BMP chapter, don't trash traditional until you've been apart of one. Also like transfering school to school. It would be weird if I transfered to a BMP chapter. One, I could be a junior and I would be totally out of sync with the whole "levels" thing. especially since I would have been a brother for 2 years so its not like i would just be starting out. One more thing, I think I can speak for everyone in a traditional chapter here, if i was to transfer, and the chapter at the new school was BMP. I would have a big problem with that, because you would definitely feel like you have more right than anyone to be apart of the fraternity because you had to earn your way in, and all these people your with just signed a piece of paper... Oh well. hopefully USC will stay traditional for as long as possible, hell nationals is even giving us an awesome new house. We have the highest GPA on campus, like 80 brothers, won IM's 6-7 times out of the last 10 years and are about to win again. Things are looking pretty good.

[Benson7824]

Coming from a very successful chapter that runs the BMP, I think that some of you do not fully understand the program. My chapter chartered in 2000, and I dealt with the whole "not a real fraternity" crap from other frats on our campus...until we showed them what we are about. We hold the same ideals as all SigEps, and we continually improve ourselves after pledging ends. I'm not saying that brothers in traditional chapters do not, I'm just saying that it is required for us.

I've seen many arguments from traditional chapter members that struck a nerve with me:

1. Not pledging does not promote respect for the fraternity.

I respect SigEp and how it can change the lives of men for the better as much as any of you. Traditional or BMP...we stand for high ideals and aspire to make a difference wherever we go.

2. BMP chapters are too easy to join.

Joining a SigEp chapter is different everywhere. My chapter is hard to join...we are very selective. I have seen some BMP chapters that give everyone a bid...but I have also seen some traditional chapters that do the same.

3. Since I'm from a BMP chapter, I'm not as close to my brothers as traditional members are with their pledge class.

I will argue that I am as close with my brothers as any of you within your pledge class. In the BMP program, you can work at your own speed, but ask around...most travel through the ritual together anyway. We struggle together, learn together, fail together and succeed together. And we do it for more that the 8-10 weeks of pledging...we do it for our entire college careers. We also are not separated by pledge classes, so if someone is taking longer in a challenge, we bond with them. If someone is going through the challenges quickly, we can bond with them.

4. BMP members do not "earn" their letters or their knowledge of the ritual

That is flat out bullshit! We may not pledge, but we require our members to do many of the same things. The difference is that we do it throughout our college career, not just our first semester in the fraternity. We have to continue to participate and continue to grow every semester. Also, since we learn the ritual in steps, I would argue that we have to do MORE over a greater amount of time to prove ourselves and "earn" that knowledge and our letters.

This post is not meant to attack any traditional chapters, but to give my thoughts as I continue to hear myself and other BMP chapter members insulted. The prior comments on this probably weren't meant to insult me, but when people say that I'm not as good a SigEp as they are because I'm from a BMP chapter, that does insult me.

Later all,
Benson

[GAFU SC Alpha]

Truthfully

BMP, as I have seen it ruins the reputation of Sigma Phi Epsilon as a whole. I've met people from all over the country who are greek. I always ask them what SigEp is like on their campus, every time I hear something like "they are a bunch of nerds" "they are tools" "the suck" etc. it is disheartening. Invaribly, I find out that these same chapters are BMP.

It is an embarassment to me when others ask about the Balanced Man Program and I have to tell them that there is no pledge process involved.

Why do BMP chapters boast such high retention rates and GPA's? Because anyone can join! It is highly non-selective, and the guys who couldn't get bids from anyone else usually end up going "Sigma Phi Everyone." (As we are often called.)

BMP is clearly a marketing tool, as was previously stated. That is because fraternities, on the national level, are businesses. Do you think Barra at Nationals give a shit about your campus reputation, or how cool the sororities think you are? No. They care about high numbers because higher numbers are higher revenue.

There is more to a fraternity than good times and good looking women. It is a brotherhood! Adam Seiber once told me that when CAJ founded this fraternity, "it was selective and secretive." They didn't allow anyone with a pulse, to sign up! BMP does just that.

It pains me to say, but when I travel I've met a lot of other SigEps. The ones that were BMP, I can't say we had a lot in common. It is like BMP is a whole other fraternity. I've also noticed that BMP guys think they are better than traditional. They make no attempt to disguise this.

The scary truth is:
In several years there will be no more traditional chapters, and the reputation of Sigma Phi Epsilon may be ruined.

[FRATMOSPHERE]

^^^The reputation of SigEp is already ruined.

By the way, did anyone happen to see that they quoted me in that TIME magazine article about SigEp?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...8951-1,00.html


Also, I went to Carlson's a few months ago. The BM chapters were terrible. The only cool BM chapter was really traditional at heart. They just lied to nationals about being BM so they could get a house.

[SigEpMike]

I joined a balanced man chapter this semester and so far i am loving it. People say without pledgeship there isn't as strong of a bond with your brothers, but I've found that to not be the case, at least with our chapter. I would do anything for any brother in the chapter and I know they would for me too. I love and respect this fraternity just like anyone else. I do think that the traditional chapters might bring people together quicker than a BMP chapter, but I think the bond is there either way and that is what is important. You might think someone is a "dork" or whatever, but they are a SigEp too. Don't talk shit about a fellow SigEp. Sorry for this novel, but I hate how BMP chapters get ripped on all the time.

[GAFU SC Alpha]

Originally posted by SigEpMike
I hate how BMP chapters get ripped on all the time.

That is because BMP guys act 'Holier than thou!' Time magazine and nationals suck your dick for being BMP and you get an ego.

You go do your ettiqute class, I'll go have a mixer!

[SigEpMike]

dude i dont care about whatever time magazine had to say. all i'm sayin is that BMP is different than traditional, but it doesnt mean it is ruining the fraternity's reputation. No chapter is any better than the other, it's whatever fits at the school. if u don't think a chapter is cool then deal with it, it isn't ur chapter.

[SigEpMike]

oh and btw, i do agree that some BMP guys act, as u said, "holier than thou" we have some of that in our chapter and i hate it just as much as u do. and i do agree that the traditional system has its benefits and i wish BMP chapters would be a little more like the traditional. But not all BMP guys act like that and some of us are trying to make our BMP chapters better (combining traditional and BMP). but to just discredit us as some other people in this thread do is lame. also i do think that pledgeship weeds out the people who aren't as commited to the fraternity which is good. But some BMP people, such as myself, would have went thru pledgeship to join SigEp. So don't go judging people u don't know is all i ask.

[Alaska_SigEp]

I am in a BMP chapter and would much prefer to be traditional. My chapter takes the rules and "meaning" of BMP way to seriously. I think that traditional chapters have a lot more unity and understanding of eachother than balanced man chapters.

[Benson7824]

"I think that traditional chapters have a lot more unity and understanding of eachother than balanced man chapters."

I disagree...but it sounds like my BMP chapter runs differently from yours. We take the BMP seriously, but not 100% by the letter.

As for the reputation that some keep referencing...what reputation is being ruined? Please describe the reputation so I can understand how the BMP is ruining it. My BMP chapter is very selective, our brotherhood is tight, we are leaders all through campus, the women love us and we know how to party, but not get in trouble for it. Is that ruining the SigEp reputation?

I have met a lot of guys through Carlsons and Conclaves, and I have met a far amount of "tools" that are from both traditional and bmp chapters. I have met a lot of awesome brothers from both as well. Why are we competing with each other about which is better?? Men are finding both to be effective or crappy...depending on that particular group of guys at that university. It's as simple as that.

[TrueSPE]

That etiquette dining thing is probably the shittiest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Wow. Maybe we overgeneralize the embarassment that the BMP is to our fraternity sometimes, but with that kind of shit, it's hard not to.

And it's pretty obvious that etiquette is a direct result of the BMP. What was once a social fraternity is becoming an honors society. GPA and numbers become all that counts, rather than brotherly love. At the least, the BMP is seriously dividing the chapters, ruining our core virtue. Fuck it.

[sigepsal]

wow... so i guess this is quite the headed discussion. and to be honest.. i think the largest problem here is a huge misunderstanding... and quite honestly.. a little ignorance...

to say that you can tell when a chapter is BMP and Traditional just by meeting them is ridiculous, cause i know A LOT of chapters that don't fit either mold.

the program itself is not built to tear down ur unity as a fraternity, but i think in a lot of cases it brings your fraternity closer together. there are still obvious pledge classes (no, we don't call them that, but they are guys that all come in together and go through the program at the same time), but they are not as segregated as pledge-brother. i think that this brings together the fraternity as a whole, breaking down the smaller clicks such as pledge classes.

just because you are a weak member in a BMP chapter does not mean you get a free ride through the whole program. at any time a brother can be brought to standards and kicked out. there are a lot of standards that sig eps are held accountable to, and it is the chapters responsibility to make sure those standards of membership do not drop. and, members that do not meet those standards can be kicked out by the standards board at any time. so again, it is up to the chapter to keep their members strong, and not let anyone slide through the program.

as for the respect issue, that is just ridiculous also. you want respect, win shit. let ur record speak for itself. how can another fraternity tell you that you are weak if you beat them in all sports. beat them in greek week. or whatever else your school has.

"sigma phi everyone"? again, this has nothing to do with the bmp. if you have low recruitment standards then that if your personal choice. the men you bid should be carefully evaluated and selected whether you are bmp or traditional. the best chapters, traditional or bmp, have some of the highest recruitment standards.

to say that gpa and numbers count more than brotherly love is way out of line. you are taking things way out of context. think about things this way: if a brother has "brotherly love" toward you and the chapter shouldn't he uphold the standards of the fraternity? then he should then be held accountable for the gpa levels set by the fraternity. and, in turn, a brother who does not hold another brother up to the standards set forth also does not have tru "brotherly love". and the whole numbers thing, you have to have numbers to run a fraternity. numbers are stressed by traditional and bmp. some of the largest chapters in the national are traditional. numbers is important across the board.

the bmp was introduced to sigma phi epsilon in the wrong manner. 'forcing' chapters to convert or get shut down was the worst thing the national chapter could possibly do. because with that, the bmp came with negative connotations that have stuck.

we are sigep. we have always been different. we should not be afraid of the balanced man ideal or program. if traditional works for you and your chapter than more power to you. but to say that other fraternities think we are less because of it is ridiculous. with our roots we have shown to be innovative and groundbreaking. the balanced man ideal is the next step. it is not a coincidence that tons of other fraternities have copied this model and applied it accordingly. we should be proud of who we are, and the direction we are going.