Tiers in The SEC

[gee_ess]

EW and others, what makes you think that fraternity men in Arkansas are all from "old money"? "Old Money" in Arkansas is a topic I do not think you can speak about considering your age and experience.

Your comments regarding geographical distribution of members MIGHT be more accurate, but to make sweeping generalizations regarding financial status is wrong. Private school does not equal old money.

sorry for the hijack, but this conversation was getting to me.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

EW and others, what makes you think that fraternity men in Arkansas are all from "old money"? "Old Money" in Arkansas is a topic I do not think you can speak about considering your age and experience.

I didn't say that they are "all" from old money. In fact, I made no references to anything about old money regarding private schools. Please actually read. I said the Delta is where old money can be found. Which is true. Highland Park is also a good place.

I said:

In terms of quality, it comes from the private schools in Dallas, Memphis and Little Rock aaaand the Delta. Which has no private schools, but has some old money (and some no money at all) schools like DeWitt, Stuttgart, Gillette, some Pine Bluff and mostly towns that are barely on the map.

Paraphrased: The majority of the good fraternity men come from private schools in Dallas, Memphis and Little Rock. The Delta is a good place as well, but it doesn't have private schools (it has a few, Lee Academy for one but that's a school of like 20 people). While it doesn't have private schools, it does have some old money mostly from cotton farming and so forth. Although, the University of Arkansas' fraternity systems valuation of Southeastern Arkansas guys is a bit higher than it should be, in my opinion.

Your comments regarding geographical distribution of members MIGHT be more accurate, but to make sweeping generalizations regarding financial status is wrong. Private school does not equal old money.

You made the generalization, not I.

Speaking of "old money" in the South I'm always curious to know if you consider them the ones who originally were large landholders BEFORE the Civil War or the Yankee carpetbaggers who came down and bought up all the land for back-taxes? Because, many of the true Southern families lost all/most their land/money after the war.

edit: I'm not going to discuss the definition of old money. It's not pertinent to the topic whatsoever. I wrote out a big long thing, but in the end it's not worth it.

How about we continue with what we're talking about...

We get great pledges from the Pensacola area. Tampa and Orlando can produce really solid guys too.

Pensacola seems like a solid place to rush having met a few of the locals...I'm still iffy on Tampa and Orlando, but I know there are still good areas throughout Florida, just getting scarcer it seems. Part of the reason I put Florida so low.

What's funny is that no one ever says "blah blah fraternity, the one no one wants to join". Or the like

That's why it drives me nuts that people want this thread shut down. As long as nobody gets us off topic, this is easily a very civil thread.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I forgot about them. We have a few from the Fort Walton/Destin/Panama City area.



Here, in Florida, I think we get a lot less help from the private schools. Bolles and Stanton out of Jacksonville are great, and The First Academy out of Orlando, but that's about it.
I don't really know about the others at UF, but in my chapter we rely heavily on the "public-schools-that-might-as-well-be-private". Plant (Tampa), Nease (Ponte Vedra Beach), Lake Brantley, Lake Mary, Boone (Orlando) are good examples.
And the rest come from towns barely on the map.


Haha, mine too. I think they've won whatever national award DG gives for "best chapter" a couple times.

I never expected to see fraternity men in the same sentence as Panama City. Wild city, but def the redneck riviera lol

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Haha, it is definately all it's made out to be. But rarely are the crazies you see the ones heading off to college- or sending their kids to college.

On a side note, I really think that rednecks don't get enough credit. They throw the best parties!

ehhhh...

i enjoyed my trip there and wouldn't mind a trip back. but its the wild shit that goes on there that makes it crazy, its nothing but a long one lane road with one big club and a ton of hotels, there really isn't shit to do in panama and the beaches suck. I'd take a wild Euro Trip or Cancun any day over it, Panama is an experience though haha

and we def get a good deal of fraternity men at South Carolina... you basically get rich kids from North Carolina who weren't smart enough for the likes of UNC or Duke and want in an SEC school, some guys from the greenville/spartanburg area, and then Charleston (thats the frattiest looking town i've ever seen in my entire life).

i gotta agree with what everyone is saying though.

I went to a private school in Atlanta, Georgia, most of the kids there had dads who were lawyers, doctors, or even CEO's. No one in my family has gone to college, my mom works in a retail store and my dad is a used car salesman but they worked their ass off to make some money and send me there and to college.

Now growing up around kids that wore polo's everywhere and were basically bred fraternity men... it wears off... my style has definately changed from freshman year of highschool to freshman year of college where i am now.

You are your environment for the most part.

Not a single guy friend of mine save one or two out of the graduating class did not join a fraternity.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Here, in Florida, I think we get a lot less help from the private schools. Bolles and Stanton out of Jacksonville are great, and The First Academy out of Orlando, but that's about it.
I don't really know about the others at UF, but in my chapter we rely heavily on the "public-schools-that-might-as-well-be-private". Plant (Tampa), Nease (Ponte Vedra Beach), Lake Brantley, Lake Mary, Boone (Orlando) are good examples.

The "public-schools-that-might-as-well-be-private" is alot of what the Delta is. I take that back...alot of the schools aren't wealthy at all, but the people who are go to the UofA, the ones that aren't end up at UCA, SAU, or elsewhere. Very stratified.

Bolles is definitely a great school from everything I've been told.

The tier system of Universities is very based on the schools which the University recruits from.

Ole Miss and Alabama all have lots of people from Jackson and Mobile. Key recruiting areas in terms of top-notch fraternity men.

Texas has the entire state, which include cities I've mentioned before (HP, Tyler, parts of Houston)

Part of Kentucky's problem is that it draws alot from Ohio...which isn't so good. This is my problem with Arkansas (which draws heavily from the north Dallas, Oklahoma, and Missouri, and northwest Arkansas) Just my opinion, though.

[UTLonghorn2012]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

The "public-schools-that-might-as-well-be-private" is alot of what the Delta is. I take that back...alot of the schools aren't wealthy at all, but the people who are go to the UofA, the ones that aren't end up at UCA, SAU, or elsewhere. Very stratified.

Bolles is definitely a great school from everything I've been told.

The tier system of Universities is very based on the schools which the University recruits from.

Ole Miss and Alabama all have lots of people from Jackson and Mobile. Key recruiting areas in terms of top-notch fraternity men.

Texas has the entire state, which include cities I've mentioned before (HP, Tyler, parts of Houston)

Part of Kentucky's problem is that it draws alot from Ohio...which isn't so good. This is my problem with Arkansas (which draws heavily from the north Dallas, Oklahoma, and Missouri, and northwest Arkansas) Just my opinion, though.

What is it with Tyler? Tyler does not strike me as the sort of place that is the breeding ground for good fraternity men. There are some really nice parts (like most towns), but it's really a redneck capital.

And what's wrong with North Dallas? Have you ever seen Preston Hollow? Or west Plano? I know the folks haven't been rich since before the War like a lot of fraternity men, but there are a lot of quality people in Dallas and its northern suburbs.

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

What is it with Tyler? Tyler does not strike me as the sort of place that is the breeding ground for good fraternity men. There are some really nice parts (like most towns), but it's really a redneck capital.

And what's wrong with North Dallas? Have you ever seen Preston Hollow? Or west Plano? I know the folks haven't been rich since before the War like a lot of fraternity men, but there are a lot of quality people in Dallas and its northern suburbs.

Tyler is pretty much where 'the South' ends (I'd say 'the West' begins in Ft Worth, Dallas is just in limbo). As such, it's one of the few places in Texas that holds onto any kind of Southern charm. Dallas and Houston also have their share of ghettos but that doesn't mean that other parts of the town aren't nice.

And west Plano (Plano in general really) is the definition of new money. And most people don't have a really feel from the boundaries of Preston Hollow. What most people consider authentic Preston Hollow is Royal lane to the North, NW Hwy to the South, Hillcrest to the East, and Midway to the West. Suburbs like Plano, Frisco, and Allen are nice for stocking the middle tiers at schools like OU, Tech, and Arkansas.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

And what's wrong with North Dallas? Have you ever seen Preston Hollow? Or west Plano? I know the folks haven't been rich since before the War like a lot of fraternity men, but there are a lot of quality people in Dallas and its northern suburbs.

I use to live in Dallas. There are quality people in Dallas of course. Some of the top recruits in Arkansas rush come from there. However, the majority of the Plano kids go into the third tier here. There are lots of exceptions, but it seems to be the rule.

Often times, I'd rather rush a guy who was middle-class instead of someone from new money as such in Plano and so forth. I have alot of great friends in Plano and it's a mostly fine town.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

What is it with Tyler? Tyler does not strike me as the sort of place that is the breeding ground for good fraternity men. There are some really nice parts (like most towns), but it's really a redneck capital.

Seriously?

Agreed that most, if not all, of the areas surrounding Tyler are rather redneck. But most of south Tyler has the qualities of what those on this thread seem to hold so dear. Talk about "Old Money..." um, oil anyone?

Also, does the term "Rose Festival" mean anything to you? Talk about an old Southern Tradition that is just reeks of Old Money. Everyone knows the title of Rose Queen is bought and not won. And the Queen's coronation dress costs more than most people spend on new cars.

ETA: Rose Festival Website for those who are curious: http://www.texasrosefestival.com/

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

What is it with Tyler? Tyler does not strike me as the sort of place that is the breeding ground for good fraternity men. There are some really nice parts (like most towns), but it's really a redneck capital.

And what's wrong with North Dallas? Have you ever seen Preston Hollow? Or west Plano? I know the folks haven't been rich since before the War like a lot of fraternity men, but there are a lot of quality people in Dallas and its northern suburbs.

I have lived in Tyler since I was around 3. That isn't even close to true. Surrounding areas being redneck? Yeah, very much so. Tyler? No. Unless you really know Tyler, it's hard to get a sense of what it is really like. Very Southern, very conservative, very wealthy, old money type city. The history behind it, especially the social scene and the things that have gone on there are mind blowing.......stuff you make movies about.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

What is it with Tyler? Tyler does not strike me as the sort of place that is the breeding ground for good fraternity men. There are some really nice parts (like most towns), but it's really a redneck capital.

And what's wrong with North Dallas? Have you ever seen Preston Hollow? Or west Plano? I know the folks haven't been rich since before the War like a lot of fraternity men, but there are a lot of quality people in Dallas and its northern suburbs.

Well, don't confuse Southeast Texas with Northeast Texas. To follow up on what macallan said, my family comes from another small town in Northeast Texas- not too far from his- and we were founders of the town. Coming from an old Northeast Texas family is about as good a Texas blue-blood credential as you can get.

As for North Dallas- like others said there is lots of new money and there are lots of transplants there. Not necessarily bad people, but in my days at UT there were 2 large fraternities where a significant number of North Dallas people went because they did not have a lot of options.

Houston has areas like that too. When I was an active I focused on Houston rush and hearing some rushee go on about how they were from Sugarland like it was something special was a big strike in my book.

Just to clarify though before it gets lost in this discussion- people are going to look at you first and how you present yourself- in attire, behavior, discretion and treatment of women. If you fit in to what a chapter wants, you will know it and they will know it.

If you are borderline, then where you came from and who can vouch for you can affect decisions since it gives secondary information which is important.

Think of it like a job interview. If you go on a job interview and the people who will decide whether to hire you are on the fence about how the interview went- then they will look more closely at your resume, grades and school to make a final decision. Granted that was looked at when you first applied, but it will be more carefully considered if you do not ace the interview process. And as always, it is better to just be yourself and see where it goes. Putting on a fake front does not work in job interviews- and it doesn't work when rushing good chapters since they will want to meet you several times before they decide, giving plenty of time to see what is really there.

And that is how the world works in general. Sure coming from certain areas you will have something extra to prove over someone from a known and trusted environment, but it does not rule you out automatically.

[Army Wife'79]

Speaking of "old money" in the South I'm always curious to know if you consider them the ones who originally were large landholders BEFORE the Civil War or the Yankee carpetbaggers who came down and bought up all the land for back-taxes? Because, many of the true Southern families lost all/most their land/money after the war. What you call "old money" now may not be original Land Grant owners or appear in the 1850 Census. What is your timeframe of "old money"?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Army Wife'79

Speaking of "old money" in the South I'm always curious to know if you consider them the ones who originally were large landholders BEFORE the Civil War or the Yankee carpetbaggers who came down and bought up all the land for back-taxes? Because, many of the true Southern families lost all/most their land/money after the war. What you call "old money" now may not be original Land Grant owners or appear in the 1850 Census. What is your timeframe of "old money"?

Old Money is typically designated for people that have had money in their family for at least 3-4 generations.

[catiebug]

Why, bless your heart macallan. Where I come from (Highland Park - Fratty would be proud), that is considered new money.

And, as I consider myself a lady, I refuse to discuss money anymore. It just is *not done*.

Originally Posted by macallan25

Old Money is typically designated for people that have had money in their family for at least 3-4 generations.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by catiebug

Why, bless your heart macallan. Where I come from (Highland Park - Fratty would be proud), that is considered new money.

And, as I consider myself a lady, I refuse to discuss money anymore. It just is *not done*.

What?

I wasn't commenting on my own family, I was making a general, blanket statement about what constitutes Old Money. My explanation was more than valid and completely appropriate.

For the record, I have lived in Highland Park and have had family there since 1952. I go to Texas and have several fraternity brothers who are from HP. Furthermore, while you may exude classiness and modesty, there are multitudes of people who live there that have helped perpetuate the reputation of HP as a haven for self-centered, elitist, self-entitled pricks. Perhaps think about that the next time you feel the need to "bless my heart", tell me where you are from, and let me know how much of a lady you are. Being from Highland Part doesn't mean you automatically piss class.

Now, I'm not sure if you are saying that in HP, talking about wealth is "new money" or if you are trying to tell me that in HP, my definition is incorrect. I'll assume you meant the first. If you meant the latter than all I can do is laugh. 100+ years of family wealth (that would be about 4 generations) is most certainly old money. Highland Park was nothing more than building plans 100 years ago so I find it odd that anyone living there would refute the definition.