Opening Weekend Dove Season

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Son you can't read. Illiteracy is nothing to be ashamed of. We have been underfunding public education for years and this is just a result of that. When do you learn to read, perhaps you can address the points made instead of hurling insults though. OK Junior.

Oh and here are some quotes to enjoy:

From Mr. DuBrock, Director of Wildlife, Pennsylvania Game Comission:

"The increase in deer in Pennsylvania is a direct result of hunting practices which have routinely killed large number of bucks, thus removing a large number of animals from the herd and causing the compensatory rebound. Furthermore, such hunting practices, by constantly killing males while leaving females alive, have upset the natural 1:1 female to male ratio to at least 5 females to every 1 male." As rural areas have outgrown the ability to support a healthy deer herd, the animals have expanded into more populated areas and are now common in suburbs. This has resulted in a dramatic increase in auto/deer accidents, damage to property, and starvation of animals. Hunters actually cause overpopulation and the degradation of the deer herd in general by seeking to kill antlered bucks with no regard for the herd in general. This results in skewed sex ratios, as high as 25 females to one male in some areas. Since deer are polygamous, the herd multiplies while the hunting kill increases.

Well no shit Sherlock. If you have a bunch of idiots killing only Bucks...of course you are going to screw things up. This type of hunting is completely irresponsible and shouldn't be condoned at all. You also posted something from Pennsylvania. I am talking about Texas and the South. I don't know anything about seasons, game management, or regulations in Pennyslvania...judging from the quote.....all of it is pretty crappy. Again, this does nothing for your argument. When you are responsible, hunt within regulations, and do what you are told to do by a wildlife biologists, advisors, and game wardens then things like the above won't happen. What you posted is a direct result of complete carelessness and lack of concern for the deer.

From the 1998-99 Kentucky Hunting Regulations Manual, page 12:

'In 1976, the first year for mandatory check in, Kentucky recored 3,476 harvested deer. Herd growth accelerated in the 1980's. A two-deer limit was begun in 1987. By 1989 the quality of the deer left much to be desired. Lots of deer were being killed, but they were small with small racks [antlers]. Hunters blamed malnutrition, disease or poor genetics, but the real reason was lack of age. Kentucky had lots of healthy deer with good genetics, but they were young. The number of deer living long enough to reach their rpime was very small. 22% of the bucks were two years or older, less than 6% were three years old. Biologists determined that the quality of the deer herd would improve if more of the herd lived longer. Genetically superior bucks would naturally out-compete their unfit rivals."

Why did you post this? Again this doesn't support your original thoughts at all.....all it is saying is that the quality and size of a buck is gong to be better if it matures past a yearling and two year old and into the 3 and 4 year old range. The article is also giving statistics for hunting in 1989....nowhere near anything relavent considering how quickly things can change concerning deer in 15+ years. Realistically, nothing is wrong here....all the state would of had to do is created game reserves that are off limits to hunting to help the maturing process.

Additionally, the only animal considered to be "Overpopulated" from what I'm seeing on the internet is the whitetailed deer. And those deer are less than 2% of the total animal population hunted. Furthermore, this thread is about doves. When doves start overpopulating Texas, let me know Cleetus.

I made this thread, if it concerns hunting I really don't care what gets posted. Not sure why you posted any of the rest of that.

You asked why I was against it and I provided you with multiple well thought out responses. When your state gets a governor that will finally help you read better, you'll understand and not be such a Snappy Sally.

Yeah man, I understood exactly what you were saying. You claimed that hunting wasn't needed because nature would be sufficient enough to maintain populations and keep things under control. I refuted you and gave examples (situations, places, etc.) on why this assertion won't hold up in many areas. Your respones weren't well though out at all.....if they were you probobly wouldn't have posted them in the first place. But then again, you actually have zero knowledge of anything that concerns this discussion outside of searching the internet for evidence.......so I don't blame you for trying.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I am a moron from Texas and I can't dispute anyone so I insult them. My insults also are stupid.

Hey I hear there are lots of Doves overpopulating the world. Please help restore the balance Cleetus. Do the doves a favor and make sure they don't get genetic mutations from overpopulation.

-Rudey

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Take for instance a 20,000 acre ranch with deer on it. More than likely it is fenced in, in which case you are going to have to hunt to control the deer population in the are. Obviously they can't move freely beyond the borders of the private land. When the deer start overbreeding and then breeding within each other......bad things start to happen.....diseases, deformity, lots of problems. It really isn't a good thing.

What kind of idiot would fence in 20,000 acres with deer on it? Of course fencing in the deer and fencing out the natural predators will result in too many deer -- and that is a human-created problem. Saying that humans screwed up the system (by removing predators and by installing fences) and then need to fix the problem (too many deer) is ridiculous. Take away the fence and bring back the natural predators.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Hey I hear there are lots of Doves overpopulating the world. Please help restore the balance Cleetus. Do the doves a favor and make sure they don't get genetic mutations from overpopulation.

-Rudey

^^^hahaha, you're gonna sit here and tell me that I insult you to cover up my inadequacies and then you post this....you are an unbelieveable douchebag.

I didn't insult you in my last post at all. You posted a bunch of garbage and I responded and commented on it.

Sorry that you were completely outclassed in your moronic/idiotic attempts to refute my posts and provide some sort of rational argument against hunting. You have absolutely zero knowledge on anything discussed in this thread....and I called you on it.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

What kind of idiot would fence in 20,000 acres with deer on it? Of course fencing in the deer and fencing out the natural predators will result in too many deer -- and that is a human-created problem. Saying that humans screwed up the system (by removing predators and by installing fences) and then need to fix the problem (too many deer) is ridiculous. Take away the fence and bring back the natural predators.

ummmmmmm.....are you kidding me?

When did I ever say that we kept the deer in and moved all of the natural predators out. Please tell me you actually don't think this is what happens when you have a hunting ranch or any type of large land ownership. I'd like to see you try to remove all of the countless numbers of bobcats, moutain lions, coyotes, etc. etc. etc. No, this doesn't happen and I have never seen or even heard of that.

This isn't the mid 1800's. Ranches are going to be fenced in.....especially when you have cattle on your land...like we do. Fencing separates property to property and keeps out people you don't want.

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by macallan25

This isn't the mid 1800's. Ranches are going to be fenced in.....especially when you have cattle on your land...like we do. Fencing separates property to property and keeps out people you don't want.

If you have a cattle ranch, why would you fence in deer? Wouldn't you only fence in the cattle?

[KSig RC]

Uh, I think we can solve this entire shit show with three simple facts that are indisputable:

-In many areas, modern hunting regulations help to control animal populations

-The reasons why animal populations would grow out of control without hunting are entirely related to human actions (usually altering environments/killing predator populations)

-We can prove #2 by noting that herd populations were controlled via natural balance and carrying capacity prior to human overpopulation and continued industrialization (and it's also worth noting that deer overpopulation generally leads to . . . dying deer, or equilibrium)

See? See. Easy as apple pie and nailing fat drunk girls, and everyone's right!

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

If you have a cattle ranch, why would you fence in deer? Wouldn't you only fence in the cattle?

Its not a cattle ranch....its a hunting ranch with cattle on it.....about 300-400 head.

We don't fence in deer. There is a difference between regular fencing and putting in high fences.....which are used to keep deer in.

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Take for instance a 20,000 acre ranch with deer on it. More than likely it is fenced in, in which case you are going to have to hunt to control the deer population in the are. Obviously they can't move freely beyond the borders of the private land.

See, I thought you were saying that some jackass fences in a bunch of deer and then says it's necessary to hunt them. Now you're talking about your ranch where the deer are not contained by a fence. Are you saying that hunting is necessary on your land and, if so, why?

[OtterXO]

I'm confused. First you said this

Originally Posted by macallan25

Take for instance a 20,000 acre ranch with deer on it. More than likely it is fenced in, in which case you are going to have to hunt to control the deer population in the are. Obviously they can't move freely beyond the borders of the private land. When the deer start overbreeding and then breeding within each other......bad things start to happen.....diseases, deformity, lots of problems. It really isn't a good thing

'

and then you said that the fences don't keep deer in because:

Originally Posted by macallan25

Its not a cattle ranch....its a hunting ranch with cattle on it.....about 300-400 head.

We don't fence in deer. There is a difference between regular fencing and putting in high fences.....which are used to keep deer in.

Which is it?

[Rudey]

I made some changes.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Uh, I think we can solve this entire shit show with three simple facts that are indisputable:

-In some areas, modern hunting regulations help to control animal populations, but other regulations such as sterilization and the re-introduction of predator animals also help. Of course given the limited use of hunting to maintain population control, hunters are not saints and simply use this as a shallow reason to justify their actions.

-The reasons why animal populations would grow out of control without hunting are entirely related to human actions (usually altering environments/killing predator populations)

-We can prove #2 by noting that herd populations were controlled via natural balance and carrying capacity prior to human overpopulation and continued industrialization (and it's also worth noting that deer overpopulation generally leads to . . . dying deer, or equilibrium)

See? See. Easy as apple pie and nailing fat drunk girls, and everyone's right!

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

See, I thought you were saying that some jackass fences in a bunch of deer and then says it's necessary to hunt them. Now you're talking about your ranch where the deer are not contained by a fence. Are you saying that hunting is necessary on your land and, if so, why?

Yeah, thats what I figured you were thinking, no big deal. Technically, the deer are not restrained by fences.....they can jump pretty damn high. However, the ranch is big enough to where you aren't going to really have any considerable fluctuations in numbers because of them moving in and out of different properties (are ranch is in between 4 other ranches.)

We hunt for many different reasons....food, enjoyment, sport, entertain clients....all sorts of things. We do though work extensively with wildlife biologists concerning all of the different game on our property (namely deer, turkey, quail, hogs, and dove. Some ducks, but not alot by any means.) We aren't going to go shoot a bunch of things simply becasue they are there. Reckless hunting will really screw things up. Considering how we can positively influence the wildlife by hunting....I would say that it is necessary.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

I'm confused. First you said this '

and then you said that the fences don't keep deer in because:
Which is it?

I didn't explain myself too well in that first one. I was just using that as an example. Some people do have high fences to contain deer. Most often these ranches breed deer themselves to produce trophy bucks and whatnot.

Our ranch is just fenced in. No high fences.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Rudey

I made some changes.

Can you provide some info on where your assertion that hunting to maintain wildlife populations is limited and , I guess, small scale? I'm not trying to start anymore shit with you.....I'd be interested in seeing some statistics.

I still don't get what you have against hunting. I understand your points you made...but now your talking about justification and "actions" or hunters and hunting.

Do you not eat meat? ARe you a member of PETA or something?

I'd just like to know what you have against it and why you obviously think hunting is wrong.

[aggieAXO]

Growing up in a family full of hunters I was always the odd ball. I never got why my grandfather would feed the deer all year long and then go out and shoot them . Most of the people I know hunt and i just don't go there with them anymore(meaning the subject of hunting). Unfortunately, I probably kill more deer every year than most of them. I don't have a choice though, they come in with broken legs, head trauma, etc...all courtesy of us lovely human beings and our cars. Just please don't hurt the opossums .