Kids at nice restaurants - Page 4

Tom Earp · #46 08-30-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes

That's the way we were brought up. There would be hell to pay if we embarassed my mom or any of our aunts in public.

Maybe the problem is that it isnt done that way anymore.

From what I have read, most of are the same mind.

Kids mind or they are all put out and whose fault is it?

Not the Kids, but The parents.

When kids used to come to my house when I was married, they played by My rules and did not bang stuff on furniture or spill stuff on the carpet!

When Mindy comes over with Ethan Joseph and Madison, I put my Cig out at her reqeust. I also request that they act right!

dekeguy has a very valid point and everyone who posts on here should also have the same point!

honeychile · #47 08-31-2006, 11:56 PM

My own two cents:

-If at all possible, one day a week should be set aside to practice AT HOME on how to behave at a restaurant. How children should not order $55.00 steaks, throw french fries, or kick under the table. They should learn the difference between good and bad dinner conversation, and that GOOD restaurants demand "no, sir", "yes, ma'am", "thank you", and "please" - even to the wait staff - which at home is probably Mom. (Yes, I threw the sir & ma'am in there, just in case it's not used on a regular basis!) It's good practice, and frankly, the children should thank their mother-father-cook for nice meal that was prepared for them.

-Others may/will disagree with me, but at around 10 years old, while at the Home Dinner, wine (watered down or not) can be added. Most of the people I know who do not drink themselves silly learned how to drink at home. Of course, if there is an alcoholism problem in the family, scratch this.

-Don't hold out for manners only at "fancy" restaurants! I don't particularly care to have any meal ruined by unruly children - especially when a salad bar is involved!

-When the day comes to go into any restaurant that doesn't involve a Happy Meal or a Giant Rodent, if the child misbehaves, the parent should give the child a warning that they will leave if said child doesn't start to behave. Then, DO IT! This happened a few months ago at a family restaurant, and the father marched the child out to the car, and about 10 minutes later, they came back. The child went to the three tables around them, and apologized for his behavior. We took the time to congratulate his parents on truly preparing their child for adulthood. The smile they exchanged was positively beatific!

-Finally, many of us need to remember that kids are overstimulated by so much these days, that we tend to get a little miffed about children misbehaving. We need to realize that a child with a book or a DVD with earphones is better than screaming any day of the week!

macallan25 · #48 09-01-2006, 01:50 AM

^^Granted, ,my parents taught me to drink responsibly...and how to drink at different types of dinner settings (what to drink when, types of wine, etc. etc.) when I was younger.......

........but 10 years old is absolutely ridiculous. Borderline absurd. Trying to teach a third grader (if that) how to drink is completely asinine.

AOII_LB93 · #49 09-01-2006, 01:59 AM

I could be making an assumption here, but I don't think she meant teach them how to drink as much as teaching them that drinking is not all crazy like a lot of Americans think it is. It's perfectly normal in Europe to have wine on the table and allow the kids a small glass (diluted or not) and when I lived there I didn't see kids (high school or younger) getting wasted the way a lot of American kids do. Granted some do, but on the whole it's not as big a deal as it is here.

A lot of this country has yet to really grasp the concept of moderation, in any form.

As for kids in restaurants, like others have said - as long as they behave and the parents follow through on the "threats". Hey I went to some very nice restaurants as a child, and I knew not to act up because my mom would give me "the look" if I thought about acting even slightly wild.

I've seen kids acting like savages at DQ, running around screaming and disturbing other patrons...it's not just limited to the nice places.

honeychile · #50 09-01-2006, 02:04 AM

Okay, make it 12-13 years old - different children has different maturity levels. I tend to forget that others were older than I in school. I was in fifth grade when I was 10, and was permitted champagne, and watered down wine when I went to a couple Sedars (not in my immediate family).

AlphaFrog · #51 09-01-2006, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeychile

-Others may/will disagree with me, but at around 10 years old, while at the Home Dinner, wine (watered down or not) can be added. Most of the people I know who do not drink themselves silly learned how to drink at home. Of course, if there is an alcoholism problem in the family, scratch this.

I completely agree. Although in our family, it started at Holiday meals only, then as you got a little older, it was at less-formal meals. I'm glad my parents did that for me. By the time I got to college, alcohol just wasn't a big deal.

EE-BO · #52 09-01-2006, 09:38 AM

I agree with deke.

Starting around age 4, my parents took all of us regularly out for formal dinner (2-3 times per month) plus the Symphony, Opera and Theater. When we traveled, a formal dinner or two would be arranged- and all kids would attend.

I cannot recall that we ever acted up in these settings. In my house that just wasn't done. Looking back I think my parents led by example. Adults misbehave in restaurants too- and kids pick up on that.

At restaurants we frequented, my parents would know the waitstaff and usually chat with them before we ordered. Politeness and regard for all is what we observed and what we practiced as a result.

In 6th grade at my school, we had mandatory Junior League training every Monday night for a few weeks. This included ballroom dancing, dining etiquette and parlor room etiquette. At the time most of us guys did not pay it too much mind, but it had an impact.

These things are important for all kids to learn. To this day, a BIG test of mine when it comes to relationships, hiring people or going into business deals with others is to watch how they behave at a restaurant.

I am not talking about table manners- I don't expect everyone to know what to do with 4 different forks at different times- but how they treat waiters, how comfortable they are, and even how they order. I still cringe every I hear someone in a restaurant say "I want" instead of "May I please have" (this has become passable in the US, but is considered extremely rude in many other nations and will offend waiter and host alike.)

But all that said, there are other diners too. And if the parents cannot control their child, they need to go to Macaroni Grill or something and suffer through mediocre food and the bad behavior of all the other kids.

There is a very clear pattern in restaurants for places to make themselves kid-friendly and cut back on food quality- yet still do tremendous volume since that many people care enough to not want to look bad with their kids in a nice restaurant but don't care enough to teach their kids how to behave in a nice restaurant.

Personally, when dining out I will not tolerate repeated hideous behavior from small children- especially at one of our wine dinners which take a lot of prior planning and expense.

I dine in places where I am a regular and I have had people with excessively bratty children ejected before- would do it again too.

If you want to let your kids run wild or watch TV at the table- fine. But don't do it at my expense.

tunatartare · #53 09-01-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

^^Granted, ,my parents taught me to drink responsibly...and how to drink at different types of dinner settings (what to drink when, types of wine, etc. etc.) when I was younger.......

........but 10 years old is absolutely ridiculous. Borderline absurd. Trying to teach a third grader (if that) how to drink is completely asinine.

I don't think that's absurd. My parents started me out slowly when I was 10.

MysticCat · #54 09-01-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLPDaisy

I don't think that's absurd. My parents started me out slowly when I was 10.

I'm all for teaching moderation, and I think teaching by example and by experience at the dinner table is the best way to do that.

I have to go with 10 being too early, though, except in a religious context, such as Communion or or a Sedar. Otherwise, I'd wait until 14-15, depending on the child in question.

dekeguy · #55 09-01-2006, 10:43 AM

When we were growing up wine at table was more normal than not. Almost always at dinner and often at lunch if it was a substantial meal. Unless we were just grabing a burger there was always wine with meals when we ate at a restaurant. At home we were allowed a small glass and the connection was explained between the specific course and the specific wine. It was no big deal and effectively deglamorized drinking and made it simply something to enhance the food. This was usually at home but sometimes out, often if we ate at a 'good' restaurant. The wine steward usually asked Dad if we should be given a taste, particularly if it was a really good wine. Not PC but very effective and educational. I don't remember when we started to be included, it was simply not a big deal.
We were always expected to demonstrate good manners out of respect for family and guests and, if out, then respect for other diners who were not there to see us act like brats. As I said in an earlier post, we were allowed to blow off steam when appropriate but bad manners were not tolerated. It became natural to us to conduct ourselves with consideration and restraint. When called on this by guys who thought we were not sufficiently gross to be "real men", well, lets just say that at 6'2" and 185 lbs from early high school for me and 6'3" 200 lbs for my brother, both of us rugby and rowing guys, these comments were only made once. We were taught not to look for trouble and to avoid it if possible, but as Dad often said, "Being a gentleman does not equate to being a wimp, be prepared to demonstrate this when you need to".

EE-BO · #56 09-01-2006, 10:47 AM

We were served wine too- small sips with any formal dinners at home, and sometimes a touch at the restaurant.

I think it is good for kids to see the proper context of alcohol with a meal or in a social setting. When alcohol is treated as some dark secret for adults only, it is easier to get in trouble once you go off to college.

dekeguy · #57 09-01-2006, 11:05 AM

EE-BO,
You nailed it! The best arguments are often the most simple and straightforward.
By the way, your photo in the 'what's for dinner' thread with creamed morels looks like inspiration to me.

MysticCat · #58 09-01-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekeguy

When we were growing up wine at table was more normal than not. Almost always at dinner and often at lunch if it was a substantial meal. Unless we were just grabing a burger there was always wine with meals when we ate at a restaurant.

Perhaps background provides some of the difference in my feelings about wine and kids. My parents didn't drink at all, so we never had wine in the house, nor was it ever ordered if we went out. (And we didn't go to too many restaurants where it would even be available, because such restaurants were few and far between where I grew up.)

In my own house, we rarely have wine at the table unless its "an occasion." My wife is more likely to order a glass of wine if we go out than I am, but more often than not, neither of us orders wine.

Unless, of course, one is counting "the house wine of the South" -- sweet iced tea.

And EE-BO, I think you're exactly right that "When alcohol is treated as some dark secret for adults only, it is easier to get in trouble once you go off to college."

OtterXO · #59 09-01-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JocelynC

Personally, I think if you can't find a sitter for whatever reason, you should go to a family or chain restaurant that's kid friendly.

Exactly. I don't have kids, but if/when I do my take on it will be (as it already is) that if the place doesn't have a kids menu then kids shouldn't be there.

blueangel · #60 09-01-2006, 12:36 PM

Seems we're on a bit of a tangent here. On the subject of kids and alcohol... I understand what Honeychile is getting at.. and yes.. kids do drink wine in Europe.

However, recent studies are showing that alcohol can cause possibly irreversable damage to a developing child's brain. Whether a glass here and there can do harm, I don't know. Personally though, I wouldn't chance it.

Here's an article from the AMA:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/9416.html