Fellow BGLO Greeks...

[ZChi4Life]

Rain Man,

I have been reading all of your responses and frankly, I'm just not understanding one thing. Why do you keep asking all these questions and after someone answers them, you say (paraphrasing) "I'm still not getting an answer, just rhetoric".
I think if you read the answers again, you will see that the AKAs and DSTs have MORE than answered your question. What they said is that they DO NOT feel their orgs should change their membership requirements to accomodate whoever it may be. That's the bottom line. They've said that like 3 times! Why don't you get that? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but they really have answered the question. They may not have answered it the way YOU want it to be, but they have. So leave them alone. Dang!
You just can't go around changing rules and regs to accomodate every Joe and Jane. That is just not going to happen. I mean, you're Greek, would you suggest to your Nat'ls that they do that?...go around changing their req's to meet EVERY damn body that was interested, so they can get up in your org? NO, you wouldn't! It's insane and damn near impossible. You say you know so much about Black Greeks or whatever, then you should know how they feel about people who seek membership into their orgs. Being Greek is a PRIVILEGE, NOT a right!! Why don't you understand this? Geez!

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

A Point of clarification...
I think what Rainman is asking is what makes women who are initiated say their sophomore year and for what ever reason, drop out of school (IT HAPPENS WITH ALL NPHC orgs.)anymore qualified/priviledged than those women that attend junior college.

And before anyone takes offense. Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated does NOT have membership at JC/CC either. And yes, we PRIDE ourselves in being selective too. The only difference is we have an alternative affiliation.

In the 21st century we need to be very careful of how we address "classic academia". I know quite a few folks who have associate degrees in say COMPUTER SCIENCE...who are doing very well, as well as another famous college drop-out who based on all of our current standards would not be eligible for traditional membership outside of honorary membershio...yet, he has given a trememdous amount of service & $$$$$ to the Black community and was responsible for revolutionizing the computer age. We all know who he is...No need to drop names...turn on your PC and you will know his work.

------------------
Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

[This message has been edited by Finer Woman10-A-91 (edited December 21, 2000).]

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
BTW, I AM AN OFFENSIVE KIND OF GIRL...

You're lucky it's Christmas. Otherwise one of your responses (the shouting thing)I would've had to give you a "Block" (another "Whew" thang).

So you get one freebie 'cause I am a nice guy.

PING! *trilon (flippy box) reveals green arrow pointing upward* CHARGE!

(still another "Whew" thing)

Rain Man

[AKA2D '91]

UH OH! I GUESS I AM SUPPOSED TO BE THANKFUL? NOT! AM I SUPPOSED TO BE SCARED? NOT!

LET'S JUST SAY, THAT I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU ANYMORE! OUT OF RESPECT FOR MY SORORITY, MY SORORS, MYSELF, AND MY FELLOW GREEKS!

I DON'T HAVE TIME TO LOWER MYSELF BY GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH YOU, WHAT IS THAT GOING TO ACCOMPLISH? NOT A DOGGONE THING!

THE FACT STILL REMAINS, I DON'T THINK THAT OUR SORORITY NEEDS AN AUXILIARY GROUP TO CARRYOUT OUR PROGRAMS. SIMPLE AS THAT! IT IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR US!

I THINK SOROR AND MY OTHER SISTERS IN GREEKDOM HAVE ANSWERED APPROPRIATELY. WITH THAT RAINMAN, I BID YOU ADIEU!

ET. AL...

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
UH OH! I GUESS I AM SUPPOSED TO BE THANKFUL? NOT! AM I SUPPOSED TO BE SCARED? NOT!

LET'S JUST SAY, THAT I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU ANYMORE! OUT OF RESPECT FOR MY SORORITY, MY SORORS, MYSELF, AND MY FELLOW GREEKS!

I DON'T HAVE TIME TO LOWER MYSELF BY GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH YOU, WHAT IS THAT GOING TO ACCOMPLISH? NOT A DOGGONE THING!

THE FACT STILL REMAINS, I DON'T THINK THAT OUR SORORITY NEEDS AN AUXILIARY GROUP TO CARRYOUT OUR PROGRAMS. SIMPLE AS THAT! IT IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR US!

I THINK SOROR AND MY OTHER SISTERS IN GREEKDOM HAVE ANSWERED APPROPRIATELY. WITH THAT RAINMAN, I BID YOU ADIEU!

ET. AL...

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Smart move; if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Happy Holidays to you too.

*music from the song "Another One Bites the Dust" by Queen" plays in the background*

[This message has been edited by Rain Man (edited December 21, 2000).]

[Shelacious]

Originally posted by Finer Woman10-A-91:
A Point of clarification...
And before anyone takes offense. Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated does NOT have membership at JC/CC either. And yes, we PRIDE ourselves in being selective too. The only difference is we have an alternative affiliation.

Sigh...Thanks for the clarification on this point Soror. I would assume that the SGRhos and Zetas have some of the same rationale for creating adult auxiliary groups for being a part of the Zeta or SGRho families, respectively. That rationale was NOT to provide an outlet for women who lacked a 4-year degree, for whatever reason, to belong to a sorority in some capacity. For Zeta, it was the 1948 formalization of relationships that had been on going since near the genesis of the Sorority. I am sorry if that was not clear from the outset. How this got to be an issue of "selectivity vs. non-selectivity" or "organizations with affiliates" vs. "ones without" or “women who want to join from a CC” is frankly beyond my realm of understanding. Clearly, since my Sorority has had an adult auxiliary since at least 1948, I cannot imagine my Sorority without Amicae as a member of the Zeta family. Conversely, those organizations that have never had an auxiliary can probably not see a need for them within their organization. I would hope it would be as simple as that.

By the way, we do have Amicae who are well-known in their own right: Hope Flood and Melanie Camancho, both comediennes, are Zeta Amicae as well, to address MidWestDiva's question, in part.
Best, Shela



------------------
Finer Womanhood: the "Cat's Meow" Since 1920

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by ZChi4Life:
Rain Man,

I have been reading all of your responses and frankly, I'm just not understanding one thing. Why do you keep asking all these questions and after someone answers them, you say (paraphrasing) "I'm still not getting an answer, just rhetoric".
I think if you read the answers again, you will see that the AKAs and DSTs have MORE than answered your question. What they said is that they DO NOT feel their orgs should change their membership requirements to accomodate whoever it may be. That's the bottom line. They've said that like 3 times! Why don't you get that? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but they really have answered the question. They may not have answered it the way YOU want it to be, but they have. So leave them alone. Dang!
You just can't go around changing rules and regs to accomodate every Joe and Jane. That is just not going to happen. I mean, you're Greek, would you suggest to your Nat'ls that they do that?...go around changing their req's to meet EVERY damn body that was interested, so they can get up in your org? NO, you wouldn't! It's insane and damn near impossible. You say you know so much about Black Greeks or whatever, then you should know how they feel about people who seek membership into their orgs. Being Greek is a PRIVILEGE, NOT a right!! Why don't you understand this? Geez!

Points of clarification, ZC4L

In my initial post, I asked three questions; parts 1 & 2 have been fully answered, part 3 somewhat, but answered nonetheless. When I was saying that my questions weren't being answered, I was referring more to my follow-up questions in responses to posts made by Positively AKA and AKA2D. In other words, when I got a little deeper in the topic, it was at that point the FOLLOW-UP questions weren't being answered, although I have to admit when I was asking for non-rhetorical answers I was probably thinking about all the other responses to posts I made being made in a "prescribed" manner.

In short, my initial questions were answered to my satisfaction, and a big thanks to all who responded (though I would like to get some frat input), while my follow-ups to Positively and AKA2D were not, and that was my target for the "rhetoric" posts.

As far as my org issuing membership to every Joe and Jane, frankly that has already been done to a great extent. The basic requirement to be an Alpha Phi Omega is that you must be an enrolled college student at an accredited institution of higher learning that has a chapter of Alpha Phi Omega. BTW, Alpha Phi Omega can have chapters at ANY college, 2-year, 4-year, trade, technical, heck, there is nothing prohibiting APO from starting a chapter at Ajax Barber College or Ace Hair and Nail Academy. What if you graduated? If you in grad school, you can join an undergrad chapter, if not, there's always honorary membership, which is something APO issues like business cards. Of course, the chapter I pledged at had a process of weeding out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved frat. But I digress.

Hope this helps

[NUPE4LIFE]

Okay here's some frat input. It has been stated before that Kappa Alpha Psi Fratenity, Inc. does not offer honorary membership. This is true. Therefore, every NPHC organization has it's own membership requirements and standards. If one wants to seek membership in these nine illustrious organizations, one must meet the minimun requirements and in most cases, exceed them. Just because Zeta and SGRho have affiliate groups, the members of these groups are just that. I know the sorors of Zeta and SGRho respect these women and appreciate them for all their hard work. However, they are not nor will they ever be sorors unless they meet the membership requirements. This goes for all NPHC organizations as well as other fraternities. Like someone else said, there are other community organizations that give people the chance to get involved with public service as well as experience a sense of brother/sisterhood. I think too often people look for us as Greeks to cater to the needs and wants of those not Greek. I'm sorry but I can't do that. I speak for all the NPHC orgs. when I say that memberhip has it's privileges. Greek Love to all my fellow brothers and sisters in Greekdom. Much luv to you all. U.N.I.T.Y!

------------------
KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

[mccoyred]

If a student transfers from any school to any school, regardless of it's degree-granting status, they must wait one year before applying for membership. If they transfer after earning an Associates degree, by then, they are in their senior year anyway! So to transfer just to pledge is ridiculous and a waste of money if the intention is not to earn a 4-yr degree but just to pledge. Besides, we usually can figure that out if that is the case.

Originally posted by Rain Man:
Interesting point, AKA2D

But lemme ask you this. If the sole intent of the prospective going from a CC/JC to a 4-year school, or a JC/CC graduate enrolling in a 4-year school was just to pledge, wouldn't that raise up red flags with you and your chapter sorors? I know that BGLO members strongly discourage students transferring schools solely to pledge. One BGLO website said that should a student do such a thing, they have a lot of soul-searching to do b/c at best they are unsure of the real reason why they are in college.

What does that tell a JC/CC grad who already got it together that does not need a 4-year degree? That it's okay to circumvent the purpose to attend college just to meet a membership criteria? That a 2-year degree is a trivial achievement in the eyes of your fellow frat/sorors, and your founders? Or more to the point, that a 2-year degree just isn't good enough to join?

Hey, I'm just, as these young folx say, "keepin' it real".

Again, please do not beg my questions, but answer them as honestly as you can.

Rain Man

------------------
MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

[AKA2D '91]

What it says Rain Man is that IF ONE WANTS SOMETHING...HE OR SHE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET IT!

NOW, THAT I ASKED YOU A QUESTION, REGARDLESS IF IT IS APPLES AND ORANGES, PEAS, OR CUCUMBERS...WHY CAN'T YOU ANSWER IT? TIME AFTER TIME, YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO ASK SOMETHING AND YOU EXPECT OTHERS TO ANSWER YOUR WAY OR IT'S THE HIGHWAY...SO WHY CAN'T YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION?

WOULD YOU MODIFY THE BIBLE?

SAME SCRIPT...DIFFERENT CAST!

YOU SAY YOU HAVE AN ASSOCIATES, THEN WHY DID YOU FEEL THE NEED TO OBTAIN YOUR BACHELOR'S DEGREE? WAS YOUR AS/AA NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?

I STILL SAY...IF YOU WANT SOMETHING...YOU WILL MEET THE REQUIREMENTS!

EVERYONE MAKES CHOICES IN HIS OR HER LIFE...IF AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE IS ALL HE OR SHE WANTS...THEN THAT'S IT! THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT AN ASSOCIATES WILL NOT GET YOU...

'NUFF SAID!

[Rain Man]

Thank you, N4L, for summing that up.

Thank you everyone, including AKA2D for you input. Here's why I asked this question.

I approached a historically Caucasian Christian Fraternity and asked if they had grad chapters. They said no. I then asked if they would be open to having grad chapters and listed the reasons and benefits. They said yes. They said that they will discuss it at the next Conclave and come back to me with the decision. I met numerous brothers and we were up until 3:30 in the morning talking about it. It was a good exchange. My goal was not to change the organization, but rather see if they would be OPEN to change. Mission accomplished, no aloof attitudes, no phony cliched "Membership is a priviledge" lines as a cop-out, just open ears and open dialogue.

Having said that, I just hope all NPHC members understand why there has been a great influx of Black non-NPHC orgs popping up all over the US and I appeal to all those who are ready to start hatin' on the orgs through the websites' guestbooks because of Greek-letter sequence, color schemes, the simple fact that they started their own b/c they did not like any of the NPHC orgs, or any trivial garbage like that, to remember, as you said "Membership has it's priviledges".

Moral to my post(s): Closed minds don't get fed.

Merry Christmas

Rain Man

[BlueReign]

My goal was not to change the organization, but rather see if they would be OPEN to change. Mission accomplished, no aloof attitudes, no phony cliched "Membership is a priviledge" lines as a cop-out, just open ears and open dialogue.

Having said that, I just hope all NPHC members understand why there has been a great influx of Black non-NPHC orgs popping up all over the US and I appeal to all those who are ready to start hatin' on the orgs through the websites' guestbooks because of Greek-letter sequence, color schemes, the simple fact that they started their own b/c they did not like any of the NPHC orgs, or any trivial garbage like that, to remember, as you said "Membership has it's priviledges".

Moral to my post(s): Closed minds don't get fed.

Merry Christmas

Rain Man[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you Rain Man. I was trying to get my words together before I sounded too defensive. You answered well. As my Zeta sister stated earlier their Amicae have been around since the beginning of their sorority and so have our Sigma Gamma Rho Philos. It is not a question of us "needing" them to carry out our programs as the AKA stated. We certainly don't "need" them but we really do "appreciate" them. They are our "dedicated friends" and we just organized them and gave them an official name. THAT'S ALL!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

[AKA2D '91]

Membership DOES have its privileges!
Regardless if it's AKA, DST, ZPB, SGR, Me Phi Me, You Phi Me! EVERYONE CANNOT AND WILL NOT be a member of these organizations or OTHERS! No matter how hard he or she tries. ONE SHOULD SAY THIS CLICHE' WITH PRIDE, regardless of the organization!

Anyone can organize a group of people and call them WHATEVER, but WE ALL know that they will not likely be REVERED like the ELITE EIGHT or the DIVINE NINE!

And, What is this signing guestbook crap? What is that about?

Now, for "organizing and namng" that's fine that you all did/do that. I, personally, do not see why it is necessary. That's why there were 4 groups for me to choose. I chose the organization that was best for ME. And it just so happens that they do not have an "auxilliary" group.

That is NOT being CLOSED MINDED...It's just being truthful.

I guess that if my organization DID have an auxilliary then my ideology would be different. So, if your organization has one, THEN YOU SHOULD GO TO BACK YOUR ORGANIZATION. I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD!

But, don't expect everyone to see things your way and call it having a CLOSED MIND!

Everyone here has his or her own opinion. That includes me, my soror, a fellow sister in greekdom, or Jane Doe. Regarding this topic, my opinion remains THE SAME!

BTW,
MY MIND IS VERY OPEN!

[NUPE4LIFE]

One should keep in mind that there are non-Greek organizations out there who are just as selective or more than most Greek organzations.

------------------
KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

[mccoyred]

Rain Man, we have a right to be proud of our history. There are few other Black orgs in this country with such a long history. While there have been non-NPHC orgs before and since our foundings, ours have endured!!

The 'hate' on non-NPHC BGLOs is different than you describe. The question is that if someone is going to found a 'new' BGLO, at least be original...at least don't copy the very same things for which the NPHC orgs are being disparaged.


BTW, how old is the Christian GLO of which you spoke?

Originally posted by Rain Man:


Having said that, I just hope all NPHC members understand why there has been a great influx of Black non-NPHC orgs popping up all over the US and I appeal to all those who are ready to start hatin' on the orgs through the websites' guestbooks because of Greek-letter sequence, color schemes, the simple fact that they started their own b/c they did not like any of the NPHC orgs, or any trivial garbage like that, to remember, as you said "Membership has it's priviledges".

Moral to my post(s): Closed minds don't get fed.

Merry Christmas

Rain Man

------------------
MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae