Stage set for possible showdown on gay marriage - Page 4

macallan25 · #46 07-11-2006, 10:21 PM

Pretty much all of my posts are in the chit chat section concerning North vs. South lifestyles and food, or in the entertainment section concerning sports. Little logic is needed in either.

DeltAlum · #47 07-12-2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think the problem they, and I, have is that there is no modern day difference between a church performed marriage and that of the state.

In that argument, you seem to be assuming that the church (any church) has or should have the final input on marriage which seems to fly in the face of at least one of your previous posts.

Isn't the state the final arbitor of whether a marriage is legal?

Understanding that this is really "out there," what would happen if the State of (fill in the blank) decided that Christianity (yes, I go to church and am a Presbyterian Elder, so don't go there) is really a pagan ritual and that anyone who practices it is immoral and shouldn't be allowed to marry, and all weddings performed in a Christian church will be nullified and no further Christian marriages will be allowed?

Isn't the way religion influences our government and society in cases like this dangerously close to crossing that line between Church and State that the framers of our Constitution were so concerned about?

AlphaFrog · #48 07-12-2006, 09:55 AM

To add to DA's comment...I can get married 600 times in churches across America, but it legally doesn't mean jack without the piece of paper from the state (also known as a Marriage License) being filed.

RU OX Alum · #49 07-12-2006, 10:14 AM

with regard to full faith clause or whatever....don't vegas marriages already not count even though that is there?

kddani · #50 07-12-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

with regard to full faith clause or whatever....don't vegas marriages already not count even though that is there?

ummmm... no. Legit Vegas marriages are legal and valid in every state. As long as it was a valid marriage according to Nevada law, every other state has to accept it as a valid marriage.

KSigkid · #51 07-12-2006, 10:29 AM

The most interesting part of this, for me, is it's not just the Republicans leading the charge here in MA. In fact, it was the Democratic Speaker of the House (Tom Finneran) and the Democratic Attorney General (Tom Reilly, now running for Gov) who were vocally against same-sex marriage in the beginning. It truly became a bipartisan issue.

I just don't see how, legally, you can stop gay marriage. It ends up coming down to a religious or moral argument, not a government/legal one.

DeltAlum · #52 07-12-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I just don't see how, legally, you can stop gay marriage. It ends up coming down to a religious or moral argument, not a government/legal one.

I'm interested to hear that since I agree. To take it one more step, if any state should make gay marriages legal, would all of the others have to recognize that marriage in the same way that they do the Las Vegas ones mentioned above? Or, can a law in, let's say Ohio, nullify the effects of a law in, again let's say, New York within Ohio? I believe that to be the case, but don't know that for sure and ask our lawyers and law students for their input.

ETA, if states are rushing to pass laws to define marriage as being between a man and a woman, does that mean that same sex marriages are legal until that kind of law is passed? Or is there just a black hole kind of void until a law defines what a marriage can (or can't?) be? For instance, was public intoxication "legal" before some act was passed by a legislature or city council?

AlphaFrog · #53 07-12-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I'm interested to hear that since I agree. To take it one more step, if any state should make gay marriages legal, would all of the others have to recognize that marriage in the same way that they do the Las Vegas ones mentioned above? Or, can a law in, let's say Ohio, nullify the effects of a law in, again let's say, New York within Ohio? I believe that to be the case, but don't know that for sure and ask our lawyers and law students for their input.

Just like all states must recognize your driver's license, all states must recognize all legal documents from other states, including marriage licenses. (One of the few things I actually remember from my American Government class).

KSigkid · #54 07-12-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I'm interested to hear that since I agree.

Haha, see, I'm not quite such a nasty conservative (and I'm only conservative on certain issues).

RU OX Alum · #55 07-12-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kddani

ummmm... no. Legit Vegas marriages are legal and valid in every state. As long as it was a valid marriage according to Nevada law, every other state has to accept it as a valid marriage.

Thanks Dani.

I don't really think that's right. If I want to start my own state, and declare that marriage is only between a rattlesnake and an oaktree -only rattlesnakes and oaktrees can marry- then that is that state's right.

State of Sillyness, to be sure.

valkyrie · #56 07-12-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

If I want to start my own state, and declare that marriage is only between a rattlesnake and an oaktree -only rattlesnakes and oaktrees can marry- then that is that state's right.

State of Sillyness, to be sure.

If you start your own state, I'd visit for the drugs alone.

shinerbock · #57 07-12-2006, 01:02 PM

DeltAlum, you didn't understand what I was saying. When I mentioned the lack of difference between a church marriage and simply a state one, I was referring to the fact that I would have preferred marriage remain solely a church function. Thus, it is all intertwined now, which presents us with problems like gay marriage.

KSigkid · #58 07-12-2006, 01:06 PM

There's a whole bunch of people from both sides demonstrating out in front of the State House. The Mass Equality people have better signs, but the "Let the people vote" folks have catchier chants and better balloons.

The best part is watching the tourists and school groups walking through. I guess they didn't expect this on their trip to Boston.

GeekyPenguin · #59 07-12-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSigkid

There's a whole bunch of people from both sides demonstrating out in front of the State House. The Mass Equality people have better signs, but the "Let the people vote" folks have catchier chants and better balloons.

The best part is watching the tourists and school groups walking through. I guess they didn't expect this on their trip to Boston.

This is the kind of review that should be on the news.

Are these people going to be there all week? I want to go watch a protest.

tunatartare · #60 07-12-2006, 01:30 PM

Here are my views on this. I am pro gay marriage. I think that marriage is a basic right that should be allowed to any human being. It's not fair to treat gays as second-class citizens and tell them that they're not allowed to marry because you don't support/approve of their lifestyle but demand that they pay taxes and do everything else that citizens are supposed to do.