Alleged Rape of NCCU Student: (Duke Scandal)

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I'm offended by your posts. No matter what a woman's job is, not matter what she's wearing, what she's doing, where she was, A WOMAN DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED! She could have been walking around town naked, that does not mean that deserves it or that their behavior is appropriate. If a woman does not give active consent, its sexual assault. It doesn't matter if she did something before or if she's a dancer or if she's a secretary.

It really blows my mind that folks still walk around with the atttitude that somehow a woman provokes sexual assault. No wonder women don't come forward.

That is so true and I am glad someone sees what I see. Did you all hear that the coach of the Lacrose team resigned yesterday.

[Gods Ivy]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke1.html

The police found this team member's e-mail saying that he was going to bring some strippers over and kill them.

I knew it. I hope they get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The only issue is that there are not serious consequences for rape and they may just get a couple of years for this. Well we know its not Alleged anymore for this player, he had intent.

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Got it. The confused me because that smiley usually denotes sarcasm.

Oh ok won't use that again. I just liked it so much because it was green and the eyes moved

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by Gods Ivy
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke1.html

The police found this team member's e-mail saying that he was going to bring some strippers over and kill them.

I knew it. I hope they get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The only issue is that there are not serious consequences for rape and they may just get a couple of years for this. Well we know its not Alleged anymore for this player, he had intent.

Just for clarification: He sent the email AFTER the rape incident, so it isn't intent.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
Just for clarification: He sent the email AFTER the rape incident, so it isn't intent.

But doesn't relate to state of mind?


**see, I knew all of those hours watching LA Law, Law and Order and other law type shows would pay off!! LOL

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
Just for clarification: He sent the email AFTER the rape incident, so it isn't intent.

Oh ok I thought it was before the rape. That does not make sense though why would he send an e-mail after the rape if the e-mail said they he would hire strippers and then kill them?

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by Eclipse
But doesn't relate to state of mind?


**see, I knew all of those hours watching LA Law, Law and Order and other law type shows would pay off!! LOL

That's true. CSI

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by Gods Ivy
Oh ok I thought it was before the rape. That does not make sense though why would he send an e-mail after the rape if the e-mail said they he would hire strippers and then kill them?

He had so much fun raping the first one that he wanted to do it again the next night. If you read the search warrant on smoking gun it says that the email went out the next night. He says there would be no nudity (apparantly like the previous night) because he would kill/skin them as soon as they walk in.

[FeeFee]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
He had so much fun raping the first one that he wanted to do it again the next night. If you read the search warrant on smoking gun it says that the email went out the next night. He says there would be no nudity (apparantly like the previous night) because he would kill/skin them as soon as they walk in.

Oh my dear Lord in Heaven.

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
He had so much fun raping the first one that he wanted to do it again the next night. If you read the search warrant on smoking gun it says that the email went out the next night. He says there would be no nudity (apparantly like the previous night) because he would kill/skin them as soon as they walk in.

Wow that is scary and disturbing

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by Eclipse
But doesn't relate to state of mind?


**see, I knew all of those hours watching LA Law, Law and Order and other law type shows would pay off!! LOL

Not really state of mind. State of mind would be what he was thinking at the time of the raping incident. So, if his email had said "I had so much fun with that stripper last night. She said she No but I know she wanted it..." it would be state of mind.

The email would go more toward his character and possibly propensity (basically, personality traits/attitudes that would make it more likely that he committed the rape).

[LIL'JUICEY]

I too am a 2001 grad of NCCU, and I too hung out @ DUKE (with Blutang) at the row houses and various parties. I remember being "schooled" by upper classmen that one should travel in a group for safety...at any school be it Central, Duke,State, etc. I said that to say that the young women, being a NCCU student should have known what areas are safe or unsafe in the Durham community. there are some places one does not go alone, or for that matter go at all!! lets not forget this is the same school (DUKE) that did NOT suspend students that were found to be hanging black dolls from trees back in 99. Duke has a history of sparing the rod and spoiling their students! I totally feel its a miscarriage of justice not suspending those students. whose to say they wont do this again.
I understand the girl's desire for an education lead her into her chosen profession...but come on, association brings about assimilation! Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with assuming that a person is a certain way b/c of their race,profession,or friends...but we all know that it happens. we as members of various orgs have experienced this all to well.(meaning we have being categorized by the stereotypes non-greeks give our orgs)
NO - she did NOT deserve to be raped,humiliated,disrespected,etc. but she DID place herself in that situation. We as women have to start taking more responsibility for the things that happen to us and stop being victims all the time. and hell yes, I would be dumb mad if this happened to a family member or friend of mine...come to think of it, it has!! she wasn't a stripper, but she was a tease. and that doesn't okay what happened to her, but had she listened and not been flirting and teasing that old nasty man (wearing revealing clothes,etc.) then she wouldn't have been raped! does that mean that we as women cant wear sexy clothes, be half naked, etc....NO!!! I agree with Jubilance1922, even if a woman walks around nake that does not give the ok to touch/rape her or to even say something disrespectful. HOWEVER, unfortunately we have to know that it does advertise our bodies to men, who are most times thinking with their smaller heads. we have to begin to think like they do! i mean come on, if you walk outside and see a half naked attractive man you are probably gonna have some thoughts about him in the bedroom.

all I'm trying to express is that the situation is F***ed up. Those young men deserve to be punished, but that young woman can NOT place all blame on them. she has to stock some of the responsibility on herself.
I hope you all can feel where I'm coming from, and read this with an open mind. If offended by anything I've said, I'm sorry that you feel that way.

[laylo]

I disagree. Rape is not about sexual arousal. It is an act of violence in attempt to dominate or punish someone. Saying a man raped a woman because he found her attractive is like saying an alcoholic drinks alcohol just to quench his thirst.

[Marie]

Originally posted by LIL'JUICEY
I too am a 2001 grad of NCCU, and I too hung out @ DUKE (with Blutang) at the row houses and various parties. I remember being "schooled" by upper classmen that one should travel in a group for safety...at any school be it Central, Duke,State, etc. I said that to say that the young women, being a NCCU student should have known what areas are safe or unsafe in the Durham community. there are some places one does not go alone, or for that matter go at all!! lets not forget this is the same school (DUKE) that did NOT suspend students that were found to be hanging black dolls from trees back in 99. Duke has a history of sparing the rod and spoiling their students! I totally feel its a miscarriage of justice not suspending those students. whose to say they wont do this again.
I understand the girl's desire for an education lead her into her chosen profession...but come on, association brings about assimilation! Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with assuming that a person is a certain way b/c of their race,profession,or friends...but we all know that it happens. we as members of various orgs have experienced this all to well.(meaning we have being categorized by the stereotypes non-greeks give our orgs)
NO - she did NOT deserve to be raped,humiliated,disrespected,etc. but she DID place herself in that situation. We as women have to start taking more responsibility for the things that happen to us and stop being victims all the time. and hell yes, I would be dumb mad if this happened to a family member or friend of mine...come to think of it, it has!! she wasn't a stripper, but she was a tease. and that doesn't okay what happened to her, but had she listened and not been flirting and teasing that old nasty man (wearing revealing clothes,etc.) then she wouldn't have been raped! does that mean that we as women cant wear sexy clothes, be half naked, etc....NO!!! I agree with Jubilance1922, even if a woman walks around nake that does not give the ok to touch/rape her or to even say something disrespectful. HOWEVER, unfortunately we have to know that it does advertise our bodies to men, who are most times thinking with their smaller heads. we have to begin to think like they do! i mean come on, if you walk outside and see a half naked attractive man you are probably gonna have some thoughts about him in the bedroom.

all I'm trying to express is that the situation is F***ed up. Those young men deserve to be punished, but that young woman can NOT place all blame on them. she has to stock some of the responsibility on herself.
I hope you all can feel where I'm coming from, and read this with an open mind. If offended by anything I've said, I'm sorry that you feel that way.

I don't understand why people are saying that she put herself in this situation. She is a stripper. She did what pretty much all strippers do, which is to dance and take off her clothes in front of a group of men. Unless the argument is that all strippers inherently deserve to be raped, then what exactly are you saying was out of the ordinary or extreme about her situation? It has already been stated that the men were dishonest about the number of men in attendance, so it isn't like she knowingly accepted a job where she was going to be overwhelmingly out-numbered. I guess I just don't understand your point. She did exactly what the thousands of other women with her job description do. I don't see how that should absolve the men from self-control and human decency.

I do understand having a sense of personal safety and making wise decisions based upon that. If this was a campus safety class, then I'd be right there with you on this point. However, at this point in the case and in this situation, your position comes off as insulting and accusatory towards the victim. Either you're blaming the victim or you're not. You can't say "Oh I think that the men were absolutely wrong, and no woman deserves this." but then in your next breath say "Well she kinda did deserve it by being dumb and putting herself in a dumb situation." You weren't quite that crass with it, but the message was the same. Either you feel she deserved it or she didn't. Period.

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by Marie
I don't understand why people are saying that she put herself in this situation. She is a stripper. She did what pretty much all strippers do, which is to dance and take off her clothes in front of a group of men. Unless the argument is that all strippers inherently deserve to be raped, then what exactly are you saying was out of the ordinary or extreme about her situation? It has already been stated that the men were dishonest about the number of men in attendance, so it isn't like she knowingly accepted a job where she was going to be overwhelmingly out-numbered. I guess I just don't understand your point. She did exactly what the thousands of other women with her job description do. I don't see how that should absolve the men from self-control and human decency.

I do understand having a sense of personal safety and making wise decisions based upon that. If this was a campus safety class, then I'd be right there with you on this point. However, at this point in the case and in this situation, your position comes off as insulting and accusatory towards the victim. Either you're blaming the victim or you're not. You can't say "Oh I think that the men were absolutely wrong, and no woman deserves this." but then in your next breath say "Well she kinda did deserve it by being dumb and putting herself in a dumb situation." You weren't quite that crass with it, but the message was the same. Either you feel she deserved it or she didn't. Period.

I think that said it all. Thanks for putting that out there. You, LIL'JUICEY, do have to choose what side you are on and it seems more toward blaming the victim "Victim" is just that. Not someone who was asking for it.

Just as an update, suspension have been made at Duke and the President of the institution has addressed his concern and disappointment in the "accused" students. However, it is very disturbing to see that we as women think that we deserve to be assaulted because of our profession. She did not go alone, she was with someone else however, and they were divided. If I am a stripper how many people am I going to bring with me to see me strip???? Not too many because I am at work. How many people do you bring to work with you for protection, LIL'JUICEY?