Old-School Greek terms wrong?

[DeltAlum]

You could be right, but I've spent a fair amount of time at AFA and have never heard anyone called a plebe.

Doolies are another matter.

ETA, I did a Google search on "Plebes" and came up with the following:

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;...linktext=plebs

According to this, Plebe is used at West Point, Annapolis and the Merchant Marine Academy, and AFA uses "Doolie" which was a class below a plebe in Roman societies.

(Be sure to read to the bottom of that page which is where the Service Academies are mentioned.

[NebraskaDelt]

Originally posted by Beatz
Another time, when I speak to my other Greek friends at school. When the ask me what is new with me, I'll answer them that I am the "pledgemaster" (actually Associate Member Counselor to DX....but I am speaking to non-DXes so I don't want to confuse anyone). Pledgemaster is a common term here, and once I refered to myself as that in front of the Greek Advisor and a Dean. I was scolded afterwards by a few IFC and PHC members because once again, it brought up thoughts of hazing and was informal.

I didn't know "Pledgemaster" was still being used. I always thought it sounded like "Slavemaster" and what each did was pretty similar.

I don't have a problem with pledge, or pledging. When I was an undergrad I was the Pledge Educator. That's makes more sense than Pledge Master.

Originally posted by NebraskaDelt
I didn't know "Pledgemaster" was still being used. I always thought it sounded like "Slavemaster" and what each did was pretty similar.

I don't have a problem with pledge, or pledging. When I was an undergrad I was the Pledge Educator. That's makes more sense than Pledge Master.

Well I can definetly see your point. My school has very deep and strong local roots from 1929 when the first GLO was formed. The locals all affiliated with a national ~1990-1995, so some of these old terms are still used, such as pledgemaster.

I am glad that other people feel the same way I do about these new PC terms...for a while, I felt as if I was the only one who felt this way but I guess not

[dznat187]

"I often worry that being too PC waters down the Greek experience for people and eliminates some of the most fun, bonding traditions that come with being a member of a GLO."


If the semantics don't matter then how is being PC watering down the Greek experience? I am PC because I hope to work in student affairs where referring to a residence hall as a dorm is quickly reprimanded (more than I ever was letting 'pledge' slip). Like I said previously, the words don't matter all that much, but I am going to try to follow whatever the governing bodies and my nationals go with because they govern me as a sorority member. I do feel that more time should be spent focusing on what the chapters do instead of how things are said.

Just my opinion.

[33girl]

Originally posted by dznat187
"I often worry that being too PC waters down the Greek experience for people and eliminates some of the most fun, bonding traditions that come with being a member of a GLO."


If the semantics don't matter then how is being PC watering down the Greek experience? I am PC because I hope to work in student affairs where referring to a residence hall as a dorm is quickly reprimanded (more than I ever was letting 'pledge' slip). Like I said previously, the words don't matter all that much, but I am going to try to follow whatever the governing bodies and my nationals go with because they govern me as a sorority member. I do feel that more time should be spent focusing on what the chapters do instead of how things are said.

Just my opinion.

Because the terms rush, pledge etc ARE part of the fun traditions of a GLO. Following your logic, we should all just be members instead of brothers and sisters because what does it matter what we call each other, anyway.

And as I've stated before, what happens has NOT changed with the change of terms, especially where rush is concerned. I wouldn't mind calling it "recruitment" if it really was, but it's not.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by dznat187
If the semantics don't matter then how is being PC watering down the Greek experience? I am PC because I hope to work in student affairs where referring to a residence hall as a dorm is quickly reprimanded (more than I ever was letting 'pledge' slip). Like I said previously, the words don't matter all that much, but I am going to try to follow whatever the governing bodies and my nationals go with because they govern me as a sorority member. I do feel that more time should be spent focusing on what the chapters do instead of how things are said.

Just my opinion.

What I'm referring to is more than just semantics. I'm talking about the fact that, over the past 10-12 years, Greek organizations have become overly PC... not just in the terminology that they use but, also, in what their members are permitted to do. Chapters are no longer able to do activities that were fun and bonding for their pledges and active sisters because national governing bodies of those chapters are now saying that they are "hazing" activities. As someone else said earlier in this thread, it seems as if the whole Greek community is being PC'd to death because of the bad acts of a few.

For example, when we had our Big/Lil Sis revealing, I found out who my Big Sis was by dressing up in a costume that she made for me, complete with a little hat that she had decorated. I followed a trail of her clues all over the park that we'd rented for our pledge retreat until I finally found my way into a big cabin where all the older sisters were waiting. I found my big sister by looking for someone dressed like my opposite, but with the same hat -- in this case, I was Pepper and she was Salt. It was so much fun! Now, scavenger hunts are considered "hazing" because pledges participate in the hunt but not the sisters. In the PC world, if the whole chapter isn't doing it, then it must be "hazing." Ridiculous.

Also during my pledge period, we were each given a paper turtle. We decorated the front of our turtles however we liked, and on the backs we had to collect signatures from all of the older sisters by visiting them and answering a DZ-related history question. This served two purposes: 1) it gave us the opportunity to spend individual time with the active sisters and get to know them better and 2) it helped us prepare for our pledge test that had to be passed in order to be initiated. I still have that turtle in my pledge scrapbook, and it brings back great memories every time I see it. However, our chapter isn't allowed to do this activity anymore because it's considered "hazing." Again, ridiculous.

These are just a couple of examples, but I could give many more. I love my sorority, and I'm an active alumna. I have the utmost respect for the sisters who govern our organization. However, that doesn't mean that I always agree with everything that National does.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by 33girl
I wouldn't mind calling it "recruitment" if it really was, but it's not.

"Recruitment" always makes me think of the military.

[33girl]

Originally posted by dzrose93
"Recruitment" always makes me think of the military.

Yes, or Hare Krishnas.

Aside from the connotations on THAT word...which is supposed to be "better" than rush...many chapters simply don't do what "recruitment" is described as in the Greek world. It's asinine for a school like Ole Miss to call what they are doing "recruitment" because it isn't.

[dznat187]

why not have all members do the activities instead of just the new members, to still keep them as traditions and not chnce them being construed as hazing. like have the new member make a costume or hat or something for her big and then they get to see the excitement of both the sister and the new member wearing the item the other made?

or do the turtle thing but have the sisters have to answers history questions (serves multiple purposes-older members stay up on their info, it shows the new members that it is important to know the history and such of the chapter and it helps the new members learn the info). There are so many things that can be done and produce 'tangible' memories markers any activity or craft could do the same. While I do not think the original purpose of these activities was hazing or what not, some 'traditions' tend to chance over time anyway. an example is that my bf fraternity was able to trace back exactly when certain 'traditions' started in his chapter and realized these things that were thought to be done since the chapter was founded, began over 6 years after the chapter was founded. is that a 'tradition' really?

i feel our rituals and initiations are such strong traditions, as much as i love other fun activities, when i think back about the major highlights in my greek life, going through initiation as a new member and as an initiated sister has made so much more of an impact and really affect my everyday life as i think about what are the true and deep meanings of my org. the unveiling of my big sister or having to recite the greek alphabet to a match really pail in comparison to initiation and that is the only real true 'tradition' from chapter to chapter of each org.

sorry, that was so long winded and kind of a bit off topic.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by dznat187
why not have all members do the activities instead of just the new members, to still keep them as traditions and not chnce them being construed as hazing. like have the new member make a costume or hat or something for her big and then they get to see the excitement of both the sister and the new member wearing the item the other made?

or do the turtle thing but have the sisters have to answers history questions (serves multiple purposes-older members stay up on their info, it shows the new members that it is important to know the history and such of the chapter and it helps the new members learn the info). There are so many things that can be done and produce 'tangible' memories markers any activity or craft could do the same. While I do not think the original purpose of these activities was hazing or what not, some 'traditions' tend to chance over time anyway. an example is that my bf fraternity was able to trace back exactly when certain 'traditions' started in his chapter and realized these things that were thought to be done since the chapter was founded, began over 6 years after the chapter was founded. is that a 'tradition' really?

i feel our rituals and initiations are such strong traditions, as much as i love other fun activities, when i think back about the major highlights in my greek life, going through initiation as a new member and as an initiated sister has made so much more of an impact and really affect my everyday life as i think about what are the true and deep meanings of my org. the unveiling of my big sister or having to recite the greek alphabet to a match really pail in comparison to initiation and that is the only real true 'tradition' from chapter to chapter of each org.

sorry, that was so long winded and kind of a bit off topic.

Your ideas are good ones. However, my point is that we shouldn't have had to change our Big Sis revealing tradition or our turtle signature tradition (and many, many others) because we weren't doing anything wrong in the first place. That's what I meant earlier when I said that all GLO's are being punished because of the bad acts of a few.

I agree that our rituals are very important and meaningful. Without them, Delta Zeta wouldn't be what she is today. However, individual chapter traditions are important and meaningful, too, and many of them have been erased or revised because of the fear that they MIGHT be considered hazing by someone outside of the organization. That's very sad to me.

Regarding your mention of your boyfriend's fraternity traditions -- I would say that, even if they started after the chapter was founded, they are still meaningful for the men in that chapter. I'm of the opinion that a tradition can be five years old or 500 years old -- if it means something to the people who practice it, then it's important. Age doesn't matter.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by dznat187
well, while i am not anal about what words people use, i do think their is a very big difference between a pledge and a new member. the idea of a new member is that the person is not treated any differently than the members, other than that they can not do besides wearing the badge or other things that require initiation.

Like some others who have posted, that's exactly the problem that I have with "new members." As far as I'm concerned, one is not a "member" until one has been initiated.

Part of this may be a difference in fraternity vs. sorority culture. For us, and for most NIC fraternities I know of, the chapter has two votes on new members -- one to invite them to pledge, and another, at the end of the "pledge period," to admit them to full membership via initiation. Until that latter vote and initiation happens, you are not a brother and therefore not a member, at least not a full member.

We did drop the word "pledge" as a noun almost 30 years ago, using instead "probationary member" (usually shortened in everyday usage to PM or "probate"). We kept "pledge" for the act of associating with the Fraternity, so that one becomes a probationary member by going through the pledging ceremony and pledging to become (in the future) a member of the Fraternity. So, we still say we "pledged," and I call someone a "pledge" if context makes it appropriate. A non-Sinfonian might not know what I mean if I call someone a "probationary member," but they'll know what I mean if I call him a "pledge."

[RedRoseSAI]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
We did drop the word "pledge" as a noun almost 30 years ago, using instead "probationary member" (usually shortened in everyday usage to PM or "probate").

Heh - our Sinfonians called them "probes".

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by RedRoseSAI
Heh - our Sinfonians called them "probes".

LOL! I'd never heard that one.

[KDLadyZK]

I don't really see what the big deal is with all of this. In "professional" company such as Nationals use politically correct language and in informal situations say what you want.

As a somewhat newer member to the Greek system (initiated Spring 2005) I don't see why it matters to make such a big deal out of the language of it all. For me, I've been using the politically corrent language because that's what I've been exposed to and I think that eventaully it will just be second nature to everyone active in the Greek system. Brothers/Sisters that remember the old ways of labeling things will be graduating and going alum and it won't matter anymore because people like me will be the older members.

Why complain when the change is already in progress and inevitable??

[AlphaFrog]

I think a lot of it has to do with the campus culture you were exposed to. One of our Greek Advisors had come from a conservatice campus where you don't say "frat", but most of the male GLO's called themselves frats, and our Sig Kap hosted "Frats at Bat" and no one ever had a problem with it.