what does it mean?

[FeeFee]

Thank you MysticCat81 and OPhiARen3 for eloquently expounding upon Ladygreek's post.

@ AlphaFrog, here's some advice for you: Just keep on living.........

I'm sure the older, more mature GCers understand what I mean by that statement.

[IvySpice]

I took a class in college about the Holocaust, taught by the President of the university whose parents both survived concentration camps, but he never said anything like "When we were in the camps..."

As MysticCat pointed out, every Jewish person DOES refer to our slave experience in Egypt in the first person as part of our ritual -- it's a crucial part of the Passover celebration. We say, "God delivered US when WE were in bondage."

In fact, there is a parable in the Passover prayer book that teaches that a wicked child asks his father: "What does this holiday mean to YOU?" By saying "you," and not "we" or "me," the child excludes himself from the group. The parent of such a child is directed to answer, "This is because of what the Lord did for ME when I came out of Egypt." For me, not for you: had you been there in Egypt, you would not have been freed from slavery, because you don't consider yourself part of our people.

In other words, we have a religious and social obligation to consider ourselves as PERSONALLY redeemed from slavery. We are free only because our ancestors were freed; if we deny that it was our redemption as well, then we would have deserved to stay in slavery, because we are denying our link to our people.

If you speak as a slave, you are giving people like Erik license to treat you as one.

No, in fact, no one ever has license to treat someone else with contempt and disrespect. Respect should not be something you earn by talking a certain way; it is your due as a human being and a member of this community. Nothing you do can EVER justify someone treating you as a slave. Even if I were Pharaoh's slave by law right this minute, anyone with any human decency ought to treat me with the same respect they show to others.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by ladygreek

And miss me with the "some of my best friends are" crap.

I would never claim for my friends who are black to be anything more then casual friends, and certainly not my best friends, and here's why:
I just plain don't have that much in common with them (and I'm not talking skin color).
Geographically, there are none in my neighborhood.
Religiously, there are none in my Lutheran church.
Socially, there were none in my sorority when I was active, and there are none in any of the community groups I'm active in now.
And I'm not real active politically, so I wouldn't find much in common there.

I don't seek to avoid groups where blacks are present, but I don't seem to have the same general interests.

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I would never claim for my friends who are black to be anything more then casual friends, and certainly not my best friends, and here's why:
I just plain don't have that much in common with them (and I'm not talking skin color).
Geographically, there are none in my neighborhood.
Religiously, there are none in my Lutheran church.
Socially, there were none in my sorority when I was active, and there are none in any of the community groups I'm active in now.
And I'm not real active politically, so I wouldn't find much in common there.

I don't seek to avoid groups where blacks are present, but I don't seem to have the same general interests.

Do you know what the words "miss me" mean?

Seriously, JUST STOP TALKING. It gets worse and worse with each idiotic and logic-devoid argument that you post.

I admire the patience of ladygreek and Chaos and CT4... I don't think I could keep saying the same basic things over and over again without getting incredibly frustrated that some people are never gonna get it.

ETA: MysticCat and IvySpice are on point as usual.

[BlueReign]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Um, folx is internet shorthand--nothing more, nothing less.

And as for me being a slave--yes I had relatives who were, and I remember the stories. But beyond that, what I stated is a known fact. And very honestly it still manifests itself today, i.e. some of the posts here on GC.

Thanks ladygreek! They just will never understand because it has not affected them personally. There are things that my mother said to me that her mother told her that her grandmother told her mother and so on. I have tried my best not to repeat it to my own daughter and so far I haven't.

These statements are unspeakable, unbelievable and not worth repeating here. If I quoted them here you all still wouldn't get it because you haven't experienced it. The statements damaged me as a child and made me feel that my skin complexion, size of my nose, and definitely my hair type was less than good.

AlphaFrog, I thought you were better than this. Now I know where you are coming from.

[Optimist Prime]

Originally posted by frathole
If someone has tea, I'll take a glass. I'm hungover as balls and can't take anything sweet right now but some dull tea would probably make me feel a bit better.

lol

I hope you feel better.

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by BlueReign
AlphaFrog, I thought you were better than this. Now I know where you are coming from.

Pretty much.

[unspokenone25]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I would never claim for my friends who are black to be anything more then casual friends, and certainly not my best friends, and here's why:
I just plain don't have that much in common with them (and I'm not talking skin color).
Geographically, there are none in my neighborhood.
Religiously, there are none in my Lutheran church.
Socially, there were none in my sorority when I was active, and there are none in any of the community groups I'm active in now.
And I'm not real active politically, so I wouldn't find much in common there.

I don't seek to avoid groups where blacks are present, but I don't seem to have the same general interests.

Wow...please just stop typing. Please. You are digging yourself into an even bigger hole and don't even know it.

[FeeFee]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I would never claim for my friends who are black to be anything more then casual friends, and certainly not my best friends, and here's why:
I just plain don't have that much in common with them (and I'm not talking skin color).
Geographically, there are none in my neighborhood.
Religiously, there are none in my Lutheran church.
Socially, there were none in my sorority when I was active, and there are none in any of the community groups I'm active in now.
And I'm not real active politically, so I wouldn't find much in common there.

I don't seek to avoid groups where blacks are present, but I don't seem to have the same general interests.

If that's the case, they are not your friends, but acquaintances. There's a huge difference between the two terms.

Again, I say to you, just keep on living.......

[aopirose]

Originally posted by FeeFee
If that's the case, they are not your friends, but acquaintances. There's a huge difference between the two terms.

Very true

[Rudey]

Originally posted by kddani
As to Erik, most of us have known for a long time that he is racist, and he frequently makes sexist comments as well. We have called him out on it numerous times when he makes off color comments. People want to excuse him because he's elderly and in poor health. However, many of us (well, mostly the females... the people making excuses for him tend to be male) have called him out on it frequently, to no avail.

As to Alphafrog, she doesn't quite have the history that Erik does, so I don't know what to say.

Stop throwing the word racist around. Tell us how he's racist.

At one point you made light of anti-semitism and you continue to harass people on this website.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ladygreek
The bottom line is you don't know how old I am and what I have experienced personally. When my great grandmother talked about slavery, yes I felt it personally. And when growing up I encountered physical abuse because of the color of my skin, and yes it affected me personally.

Jewish people still have white skin and can assimilate if they so choose. I respect those who both do and do not, because I understand why those who do, do. But the bottom line is my skin is brown and I cannot .

So for you to tell me I can't speak in the voice of my ancestors is ludicrous. Because I still live it every day.

Actually, ignorant one, Jewish people do not all have white skin.

Speak with the hispanic Jews (called Moranos, or pigs, in Spain or the Latin American ones who attend synagogue in Cuba) or the Ethiopian and Ugandan Jews. Speak with the middle eastern Jews. Speak with the Jews in India.

There is a HUGE population (relative to the overall population) of middle eastern and hispanic Jews in America. They are a part of the "Sephardic" (as opposed to Eastern Europeans and such who are the "Ashkenazic"). Many of the Sephardic also suffered because of the Holocaust and often blonde Jews with whiter features (as opposed to those that were considered to not have white skin) were able to move around covertly in Europe at the time (similar to fair skinned blacks in the 1800s).

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
I really am tired of slavery being compared to the Holocaust. I know both are periods of time of hardship, persecution, and such, but the experiences were different.

Jews would prefer that that comparison was eliminated as well. Of course the comparison comes up often by African-Americans as well.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by mulattogyrl
So if we are articulate, we then give Erik a license to accept us. And of course we want that. To be accepted by 'the man'.

I don't think you're racist, but missing the point that if you say you have 'black', 'white', or 'hispanic' friends, it's just showing that you're not colorblind either. We're not saying that's necessarily a bad thing.

I guess you have to speak like a 5 year old child to be considered "Black" and if you are articulate in any way you are not black. Cornel West and Tony Morrison probably agree. WEB Dubois probably wrote a letter agreeing with this silly notion from the grave.

-Rudey

[mulattogyrl]

Originally posted by Rudey
Speak with the hispanic Jews (called Moranos, or pigs, in Spain or the Latin American ones who attend synagogue in Cuba) or the Ethiopian and Ugandan Jews. Speak with the middle eastern Jews. Speak with the Jews in India.

-Rudey

I was just having a conversation about this. Thanks for clearing this up for me.