Just would like to know you opinion

[Betarulz!]

1) You're caring far too much about people's opinion over the internet.

2) If your school is requiring you to be a part of these councils, then youre playing by the rules, and while I think there is something inherently wrong about the rules, I can't blame you for that. Great example of hating the game, not the playa.

3) Congratulations on your accomplishments.

4) #1 lesson of Greek Chat, every campus is very different. People very often forget that, even those of us who have been here a long time.

5) This arguement hits on a far bigger issue than just your presidency. There have been many massive threads on whether service organizations such as APO should even be considered "real" greeks. What it has often come down to is what is it like on your campus. Again that is something that varies. At my campus, and many other large state schools (and even a lot of small private ones), groups like APO are no more greek than the pre-med club, or the mock trial team. Therefore it seems ridiculous to me that youre required to be a part of any sort of inter-greek council. But that's neither here nor there. As I've said, your campus has a much different setup than mine.

6) This arguement also hits on the issue of gender, and how single gender entities function in this time of political correctness and discrimination lawsuits, sexual harrassment and so on and so forth. People are not mad at you for running for IFC president, but more the idea of a women leading a group that is supposed to be an all-male governing body...

7)Dont' get started with the fraternity nomenclature. Most sororities are officially fraternities, so that point is moot.

8)Finally, personally, I don't think it's right for you to be in a position of power over men's social fraternities. The issues that they deal with are much different than the ones sororities have to deal with, which are both different than the issues your chapter, being co-ed, has to deal with. How different? Well on your campus, they may actually be pretty similar, but your campus seems to be an exception, but on many other campuses, like mine, you as a member of APO and a woman could never be as an effective an advocate for the positions of fraternities as a member of a men's social fraternity.

[kddani]

The title of the thread and the original post ASKED for opinions. If you didn't want to hear opinions, perhaps your friend should not have asked for them. And i'm sure you must've had some idea when you ran for IFC president what sort of opposition you may face.

Personally, I agree with many of the above posters. Betarulz! summed it up pretty nicely.

[Senusret I]

Alpha Phi Omega takes men and women, not boys and girls.

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
now, let's see...Alpha Phi Omega used to be the boy scout fraternity, then they decided to take in girls, and since they
have no house, there is apparently no problem. But a Chi O
can be an APO and so can a boy Pi Phi and a girl Pi Phi. But
do they belong in IFC or PanHel or do they belong in one of
the new multicultural ones? Er, perhaps Tom Earp can preside
and settle this one. Gosh, in these earth-shattering days the
problems we must abide!

[AGDee]

I'm sorry that you're feeling personally attacked by this thread, Jacquelynn. I don't think anybody here intended that. We, as single gender organizations, hear a lot from our Headquarters and governing boards about having to protect our single gender status. We have had new rules about where men are allowed to be in a chapter house and NPCs and NICs got rid of little sister and little brother organizations in order to keep this status. It HAS been a fight and we are reminded of that constantly. So, it's not personal, it's just that we get concerned when that issue comes up. It would be a fair legal argument against us remaining as single gender organizations. That's not your fault, but it's our reality and our concern. That said, we'd probably have a valid argument against this too, because the Divine 9 are all in one council together despite being organizations for opposite genders, so maybe it wouldn't be a big deal. I'm certainly not an expert on Title IX, but I do know that we are warned against doing certain things to maintain our status.

I do wonder how another issue is handled though. Again, this isn't an attack, it's a quest for information. I know there are numerous people who are members of APO and NPC or IFC groups. Most NPC and IFCs require that the leadership of the councils rotate among the various GLOs which are members. In that case, what would happen if a member who was in a NIC fraternity and also in APO ran for President? Which org would they represent in that situation and how would that effect the rotations? Would it count as both? Would they have to declare a primary membership of some sort? It seems like APO could end up leading IFC always, because they can have members in every organization on the IFC. Are there mechanisms in place to handle this possibility?

Dee

[Jackiepie]

Actually I'm not offended. I don't care what people I've never met think of me. My best friend posted this and then told me after the fact. That's neither here nor there, I am not mad.
What i felt needed a response was the attack of me as not having a right to do this. My school doesn't sort groups according to if all their members posses a vagina or penis. It groups them by what they are. Ethnic groups. Sororities. Fraternities. I am in a fraternity. Some people seem to forget that brotherhood isn't about being a man, but about honoring that bond. Fighting for each other. Loving each other so much you are honest. Good times and bad. My brothers will be the people who stand up at my wedding for me. They will be my kids godparents. They will be my friends for life. Will your brothers?
Greek Life at my school falls under the Dean of Student's. He says we have to, in order to take a pledge class, have a rush and iniate members fall under the umbrella groups of IFC and IGC.
My point was if APO is forced to pay dues to these groups and follow their bylaws then why can we be involved in the politics of it? If you think your national would have an issue then by all means I urge you to write to them and have them talk to my school. Yes, I know most schools group us as a club. I'm not blind to that fact. My school(with a thriving greek population of almost 1000 people out of a 10,000 or so students)does. Hell, if your fraternity has a house on my campus why not contact their president to see how they feel about it? I'm confidant that most will honestly not care. I'm not saying to Delta Chi, Let women in. Nor am I saying to DZ, take men. You're same sex. Good for you. I am not. I follow the bylaws set before me. I do my job. If you honestly care so much to get as worked up as this I feel bad for you.

Most people in Co-ed's don't honestly care about same sex groups. They weren't for us. I don't want to be a brother in any of the other 8 fraternities on my campus. They are old and established houses. They aren't for me. My point is I am a fraternity BROTHER. I have BROTHERS. I believe in the meaning of BROTHERHOOD. I would do anything for these people. Theyare my best friends. We work hard. We have goals like any other organization. We don't want to be you, but if we have to be in the same group we might as well have the option to compete. I didn't want to be a sister and get turned down(as one private message said..Yeah..) I only rushed Alpha Phi Omega. What is wrong with work with the fraternities? I have an eboard of 4 other members, all from social organizations. we work together. I'm not challenging your right to remain same sex. I am saying that as a fraternity, full of brothers that we bear consideration.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Jackiepie
Most people in Co-ed's don't honestly care about same sex groups. They weren't for us.

Hey Jackiepie, I don't know how accurate this statement is as many APO brothers are also members of single sex groups. I'm your brother (Mu Mu '97) and also a member of Theta Nu Xi Multicultural Sorority, Inc. There are MANY people on GC that are members of APO and another org.

[Taualumna]

Fraternities only? There are many sororities that are actually women's fraternities.

[Little E]

Originally posted by Jackiepie
Some people seem to forget that brotherhood isn't about being a man, but about honoring that bond. Fighting for each other. Loving each other so much you are honest. Good times and bad. My brothers will be the people who stand up at my wedding for me. They will be my kids godparents. They will be my friends for life. Will your brothers?

Listen. This thread, as previously stated, asked for opinions. We have given them in a very polite manner. Yes, we do worry about our legal status and were curious to the electoral process of your IFC. I would like to ask you not to question our loyalty and understanding of brother/sisterhood. At no point has anyone suggested that you do not understand the concept of brotherhood or the loyalty of your brothers to you. The men and women who post on GC understand brother/sisterhood and they respect other organizations, please give us that respect too.

Anyhow, the difference with NPHC, to me, is that the body does not presume to work with single sex orgs, it is a co-ed body. NPC and IFC expressly state that they are for women's and men's org respectively. It seems like the purpose would have to play a part.

[amanda6035]

Originally posted by Jackiepie

Greek Life at my school falls under the Dean of Student's. He says we have to, in order to take a pledge class, have a rush and iniate members fall under the umbrella groups of IFC and IGC.
My point was if APO is forced to pay dues to these groups and follow their bylaws then why can we be involved in the politics of it?

Your Dean of Students needs to have his ass kicked. I applaud you, and I totally agree that if you have to pay the dues, your should have an active part in it. But, as everyone else has said, i dotn think it's an attack on YOU, i think it's an attack on teh fact that the Dean is on a power trip, and forcing you guys to be a part of it.

I really wonder how many of the other fraternities national HQ knows about this situation. I HATE how a school has so much freakin power. The power to threaten to kick someone off campus because they dont like the national organizations rules and policies - and part of me thinks that if those other fraternities HQ tried to fight him on it, that it's be a total mess.

Good luck to you.

[33girl]

Originally posted by amanda6035
Your Dean of Students needs to have his ass kicked. I applaud you, and I totally agree that if you have to pay the dues, your should have an active part in it. But, as everyone else has said, i dotn think it's an attack on YOU, i think it's an attack on teh fact that the Dean is on a power trip, and forcing you guys to be a part of it.

Yes. Your Dean of Students is an asshat.

The opinions that everyone expressed had absolutely, totally, NOTHING to do with you as a person - or as a female - they were expressed toward "APO Member."

However, reading this quote DOES make me question your fitness for the position.

4. Why can't I hold the position if I am a brother in a fraternity? Brotherhood means something to me. More so than the person who pledges a social organization to drink beer and party..the person who never shows up again once they get their letters.

I'm glad it means something to you, but putting others down is not the way to prove your fitness for the position. Especially if you have brothers who are in social organizations.

And now I'm going to go someplace quiet and calm, like the toast song thread.

[FreeBecky]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
Hey Jackiepie, I don't know how accurate this statement is as many APO brothers are also members of single sex groups. I'm your brother (Mu Mu '97) and also a member of Theta Nu Xi Multicultural Sorority, Inc. There are MANY people on GC that are members of APO and another org.

I am in Sigma Delta Tau and APO....many people I know are in both.

[FreeBecky]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Fraternities only? There are many sororities that are actually women's fraternities.

When you talk about your group, do you say "my sorority" or "My womans fraternity"....semantics....many creeds and by-laws call themselves "womans fraternity", but the members call it a sorority

[33girl]

Originally posted by FreeBecky
When you talk about your group, do you say "my sorority" or "My womans fraternity"....semantics....many creeds and by-laws call themselves "womans fraternity", but the members call it a sorority

Her point is that just because something is called a "fraternity", be it a sorority, a service fraternity or an honorary, doesn't mean it should automatically be on the InterFraternity Council.

[valkyrie]

Can someone explain to me why female members of APO are referred to as brothers?

[33girl]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Can someone explain to me why female members of APO are referred to as brothers?

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=48391