Asian student confesses: 'we work harder'

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by starang21
actually, they are....but you should be inspired, considering that according to these stats you're not at the top of intellectual totem pole.

Here's a breakdown of SAT scores - check the 'racial' breakdown, then check out the 'income' breakdown.

Once again, causation vs. correlation

[starang21]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Here's a breakdown of SAT scores - check the 'racial' breakdown, then check out the 'income' breakdown.

Once again, causation vs. correlation

this proves my point.

but actually for a better breakdown of income...the US census is better.



i'll provide a link later when i'm off work.

the funny thing about this site is that people always want to use stats to bring up points....then get offended when said stats don't go their way.

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by Rudey
At the same time, to bring a class of people up to a higher education level, you need to spend more on them than you do than the upper brackets. This country has yet to do that.

-Rudey
--Responsibility for all is the only solution

I agree. Florida is a prime example of the most asinine educational system. School funding is based on FCAT scores which is a standardized test. Schools that have kids from upper-income families have always done better than schools with kids from lower-income families. The state then gives money to the schools based on how well the students do on the FCATs. In other words, the schools with the upper-income kids are getting money while the schools with lower-income kids are having programs cut and are having money taken from them. It makes absolutely no sense to me. The teachers at the lower-income schools spend their classroom time preparing students for this standardized test in hopes of improving scores rather than actually teaching them English, Math, Science, etc.
Obviously, the schools with lower scores need more money to help build programs to improve the education level of the students there. The State of Florida government does not see it that way.
Florida always ranks towards the bottom out of all the states when it comes to public education. Figures.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I do not like Jeb Bush.

[Rudey]

There should be a system of bonuses for improvement for schools regardless of where they rank. At the same time, more funding should be spent on the underachievers.

Of course it is wonderful coming up with theories like this. In actuality, the teachers union would try and get their hands on any new money coming into the system, construction of new schools would include $40,000 toilets due to corrupt officials, and nobody will learn a thing.

-Rudey

Originally posted by ZTAngel
I agree. Florida is a prime example of the most asinine educational system. School funding is based on FCAT scores which is a standardized test. Schools that have kids from upper-income families have always done better than schools with kids from lower-income families. The state then gives money to the schools based on how well the students do on the FCATs. In other words, the schools with the upper-income kids are getting money while the schools with lower-income kids are having programs cut and are having money taken from them. It makes absolutely no sense to me. The teachers at the lower-income schools spend their classroom time preparing students for this standardized test in hopes of improving scores rather than actually teaching them English, Math, Science, etc.
Obviously, the schools with lower scores need more money to help build programs to improve the education level of the students there. The State of Florida government does not see it that way.
Florida always ranks towards the bottom out of all the states when it comes to public education. Figures.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I do not like Jeb Bush.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
The teachers at the lower-income schools spend their classroom time preparing students for this standardized test in hopes of improving scores rather than actually teaching them English, Math, Science, etc.

How can you prepare kids to pass a math (or English or Science) test without teaching them math (or English or Science)?

To pass the test, you pretty much have to know the minimum.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by starang21
"conservatives" hide their racist ideologies by applying their miniscule thought process on what a few do and apply it to the whole. if people wouldn't make racist comments based out of hatred, then the name calling wouldn't happen. you make them, therefore it applies to you.

Please come back to the topic, and end the name calling.

Let's discuss, even argue, without making personal attacks.

[starang21]

Originally posted by hoosier
Please come back to the topic, and end the name calling.

Let's discuss, even argue, without making personal attacks.

discuss what? your bigoted ideology? there's nothing to discuss.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by hoosier
Please come back to the topic, and end the name calling.

Let's discuss, even argue, without making personal attacks.

I don't see any black people calling you racist for anything you said in this thread. If one does and has good reason for it, then worry about it.

-Rudey

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by hoosier
How can you prepare kids to pass a math (or English or Science) test without teaching them math (or English or Science)?

To pass the test, you pretty much have to know the minimum.

The teachers spend the time teachings students how to take the test. It's like when you take the SAT prep courses. You learn how to take the test rather than learn all the vocab/math that is associated with it. The students learn all the 'tricks' of passing the exam without ever learning the concepts behind it (i.e.- they learn how to finish the geometry section of the exam by learning process of elimination and other tricks but never really learn the real concept behind the question on the exam). By teaching students how to take a test rather than giving them a real education, you end up with one-track robots who are programmed to pass a test but not much else.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
The teachers spend the time teachings students how to take the test. It's like when you take the SAT prep courses. You learn how to take the test rather than learn all the vocab/math that is associated with it. The students learn all the 'tricks' of passing the exam without ever learning the concepts behind it (i.e.- they learn how to finish the geometry section of the exam by learning process of elimination and other tricks but never really learn the real concept behind the question on the exam). By teaching students how to take a test rather than giving them a real education, you end up with one-track robots who are programmed to pass a test but not much else.

While I agree with your conclusion (ie "Standardized testing is a tenuous method for studying intelligence or learning"), this line of thought is really pretty weakly grounded. There are very few 'tricks' that markedly increase scoring on tests such as the SAT, and zero that work better than simply knowing the material.

For years, 'teaching to the test' has become a buzzword, but the concept isn't very fully explored. For instance, one important way to teach to the SAT is to utilize rather lengthy lists of words to increase vocabulary, which aids the analogy and reading comprehension sections. However, these are not arcane words for the most part - the literal increase in vocabulary is, most likely, a legitimate use of resources.

Even beyond that, any teachers that feel confined to 'teaching to the test' are exacerbating the problem. The real issue comes from improper foundation in the subjects tested - if the students in 8th grade cannot perform at an 8th-grade level, as a collective, we need to start looking at the 7th-grade instructors, and the 6th, and so on. To my mind, this is the real issue - if we confine instructors to this situation, we ignore previous levels that have failed to perform.

The bottom line is that classes such as those provided by Kaplan aren't magic - they provide a level of comfort with discerning question 'types' and utilizing past information to answer the questions as posed. Any amount of 'teaching to the test' is simply a result of a systemic failure to teach previous to the test.

The classes and 'tricks' should be completely unnecessary.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by Rudey
There should be a system of bonuses for improvement for schools regardless of where they rank.
-Rudey

Actually, I think results prove that spending more (see Atlanta City schools. Wash. DC schools) doesn't produce improvement.

I suggest we try vouchers (let the kid take himself and his money to a successful school of his choice).

[Rudey]

Originally posted by hoosier
Actually, I think results prove that spending more (see Atlanta City schools. Wash. DC schools) doesn't produce improvement.

I suggest we try vouchers (let the kid take himself and his money to a successful school of his choice).

Then the better students leave and you are left with schools full of bad students, students with parents who don't care, underfunded schools, etc.

-Rudey

[hoosier]

Originally posted by Rudey
Then the better students leave and you are left with schools full of bad students, students with parents who don't care, underfunded schools, etc.

-Rudey

What's the downside?

If the bad students and the students with non-caring parents are left at school AAA, their behavior won't disrupt the students and teachers who care at schools BBB and CCC.

If the number of students declines, of course the amount of $$$ will decline, but the bucks per student remains the same.

[AKA_Monet]

Hoosier,

Explain my situation to folks since you know so much about people:

I am an African American woman whose mother was an elementary school teacher that became a principal and whose father is a dentist--both who have been married for over 40 years.

Both my parents have secondary degrees. Everyone in my immediate family have doctorates with the exception of my brother--who is currently working on his Ed.D. and my nephew, who is a baby. In fact my paternal grandfather was a president of a historically black college and university (HBCU) with 16 honorary doctorates before he died. He met FDR personally. My paternal grandmother was a teacher. Everyone on my father side of the family are professionals.

My mother's family was extremely poor, due to the fact that her father was caucasian and had 2 families: one black one in the woods and one white one, publically, in Tate County, Georgia outside of Marrietta. Only one of her brother's has a professional job due to the fact he served in Vietnam twice and he is in law enforcement in Atlanta...

I lived in a predominantly caucasian neighborhood in the 1970's and 1980's. Graduated from a predominantly caucasian high school in the mid-1980's and was accepted to ALL of the University of California schools, mainly Berkeley and Santa Cruz due to affirmative action. But decided to attend Spelman College, another HBCU...

I graduated in 4 years with a Bachelor's of Science in Biology, then in 2.5 years with a Master's of Science in Molecular Biology from San Diego State University. And after some long arduous years, I now have a Doctorate in Molecular Biology from the Joint Doctoral Program of San Diego State University and University of California at San Diego...

I did extremely poorly on the PSAT, SAT and GRE. I could not get a decent percentile rank no matter what Kaplan course I took. However, I could present and articulate my ideas publically and orally without hesitation...

I married an African American man who attended Morehouse College, another HBCU that is across the street from Spelman College, who is a graduate from Louisiana State University Veterinary School. He is also a certified veterinary pathologist and an acting assistant professor at the university where we both are currently working.

His father is a cardiologist and his mother was a teacher until his father rejoined the military as a Col.

What does this mean to you? Well, since it sounds like all African Americans have no respect for education and decide to live poorly and never amount to anything, I guess my question to you is, young man, where are you getting this "information"? It is not like you are going to do anything about it, so why care?

KTSnake, KsigRC and Rudey, you all cannot say ANYTHING in this conversation... This conversation is between Hoosier and me...

And where is DST Chaos when you need her???

[hoosier]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet


What does this mean to you? Well, since it sounds like all African Americans have no respect for education and decide to live poorly and never amount to anything, I guess my question to you is, young man, where are you getting this "information"?

The nice Lady Pi Phi asked a question, and I responded:
.................................................. .................................................. .......
quote:
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Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Any speculation to why this is? I'm curious.
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In part, and I know there is some improvement, it is related to the out-of-wedlock births.

No father means no money, which means no books in the home, no quality family time if the mother is working, children raised by grandparents, etc.

It's also related to attitude: if you think your problems are caused by others - and your leaders continually reinforce that thought - you're not likely to get your butt to work and pull yourself up by the shoelaces.

"I am somebody" should be replaced by "I got a job"
.................................................. .................................................. .......

AKA - Monet: You've accomplished a lot, and had a supportive family.

I would ask you why you - an accomplished student - got bad marks on the SAT and GRE? I've never understood why some people, who do well in class and on regular tests, cannot do well on the big standardized tests. Any thoughts?

And both Spellman and Morehouse are great schools, and great contributors to our Atlanta community.

Geography wise: Tate County is way up in the GA mtns., famous for marble quarries, probably 100 miles from Marietta, an Atlanta suburb.