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  #46  
Old 07-02-2002, 06:51 PM
librasoul22 librasoul22 is offline
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Re: DELTAQTE...

Quote:
Originally posted by delph998
What are the signs though? I mean, I don't know what to look for. Sadly enough, my new method of handling things is if I have to even question someone's sexuality, I won't even go out on a date with them. There is a guy that has been trying to holla at me for the longest, but he is so flamboyant. We've also talked about homosexuality and he ended up telling me something that really blew me!! We're just friends now. I still talk to him on the phone and might go to dinner with him every now and then, but I have my suspicion.
I think that is the problem...there ARE no OBVIOUS signs.

However, without SEEKING out some kind of indication, it is usually subtely apparent. Now, I am not trying to say that EVERY gay man exhibits certain characterisitcs, but there has to be SOMETHING different about him, or he would be straight, right?

PM me if you want to discuss it further...I have had an abundance of education thru my former roommate, lol.
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  #47  
Old 07-06-2002, 04:58 PM
JohnQue_Citizen JohnQue_Citizen is offline
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There is a new show on HBO called "The Wire". They showed a scene in which 2 male thugs shared a romantic moment. All I can say is that kind of caught me off guard. I guess the notion is in the process of being phased into the psyche of main stream America.
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  #48  
Old 08-04-2003, 02:10 PM
CrimsonTide4 CrimsonTide4 is offline
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Unhappy Black Men's Hidden Sex Lives Imperiling Female Partners

HIV-Positive, Without a Clue
Black Men's Hidden Sex Lives Imperiling Female Partners
By Jose Antonio Vargas
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, August 4, 2003; Page B01


She tested positive for HIV in October, infected by the man she had married the year before.


He hadn't told her that he was HIV-positive and that he slept with men. She got pregnant. They got married. And, at 26 months old, their daughter died from HIV complications.

"If only he told me he preferred men over women. If only he came out with it. We could have been just friends," says the 50-year-old social worker, who lives in Southeast Washington and is black. The woman, who asked not to be named out of concern for her privacy, sits in her office for a moment, the only sound a light summer rain pattering at the windows, the near silence unnerving. Then the demure woman suddenly contorts in a minute-long tirade: "I'm very angry, I'm very hurt. . . . This is someone who killed my child. . . . I want revenge. I mean, I've wanted revenge. . . . . Should I kill him? Sue him?"

She collects herself, and with half a smile edging back onto her face, she asks, "What can women do?"

The question is familiar to Patricia Nalls, who hears similar stories with numbing frequency. Three weeks ago, a 25-year-old woman was infected by her boyfriend, who then left her for a man. A week before, a 52-year-old woman found a pill, which turned out to be HIV medication, in the pocket of her boyfriend's pants. She hurried to a clinic to be tested. She is HIV-positive.

Nalls, 46, runs the Women's Collective, a nonprofit organization in Northwest for women living with HIV and AIDS in the Washington area and the only organization of its kind in the country, local and national health officials say. With the District ranking highest among major cities in the rate of new AIDS cases a year -- blacks account for 80 percent of those cases -- Nalls fears that there's a trend that has gone unnoticed: an increasing number of HIV-positive women, infected by their husbands or boyfriends, who come knocking at her office, unsure what to think, not knowing who to turn to.

Nalls said they haven't a clue that their men are on the "down low," an _expression describing black men who have sex with other men -- some, if not most, having unprotected sex -- and never mentioning it to their female partners.

In a 2001 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, these men were identified as a major bridge for transmitting HIV to heterosexual women. They existed -- in E. Lynn Harris's best-selling books, in a poem by Essex Hemphill about men secretly having sex in the District's Meridian Hill Park -- long before the term down low became the subject of several newspaper and magazine articles.

Yet the women in these men's lives, in some cases the mothers of their children, have seldom been mentioned.

Carren Kirkland, HIV outreach coordinator for the D.C. CARE Consortium, an umbrella organization of AIDS groups, works with HIV-positive men and women. She deals with men who are on the down low regularly and is familiar with the pressures that keep them from telling the women in their lives. She said most of them are addicts and that some have sex with other men for drugs; some have sex with other men just for the sex; and some do it for both reasons.

The problem, Kirkland said, is that "then they go home and sleep with their girls."

On a recent Sunday, about 1:45 a.m., a 32-year-old restaurant worker who was at Secrets, a gay bar on Half Street SE, made his way outside. He said he read about the bar in the Washington Blade, a weekly gay newspaper, and decided to check it out. His girlfriend was away for the weekend -- where to, he didn't elaborate. This was only his second visit to Secrets, he said, adding that he had "fooled around" with guys twice before.

Is he gay? He wouldn't say. Is he bisexual? He wouldn't say.

"What she don't know won't hurt her," he said as he smoked a cigarette while fidgeting with a lighter. "I play safe. . . . It's all good. . . . She don't need to know nothing about it."

That mentality, said Ron Simmons, is pervasive in the black community, where the taboo topic of homosexuality, and anything else outside the heterosexual norm, clashes with the interlocking issues of race, religion and gender.

"What we're talking about goes beyond the individual," said Simmons, executive director of Us Helping Us, an organization for black gay and bisexual men in Southeast Washington. "Men and women in the black community are not equal. It's rooted in the book of Genesis: God made Eve from Adam's ribs. Black women, for the most part, don't question what their men are doing. They don't confront them. They are willing to put up with things that I, as a gay black man, would never put up with just to keep a man."

Worse, Simmons said, is the denial within his community. "Black people don't talk about homophobia -- not in our churches, not in our living rooms -- so you have men afraid to come out, fearful of telling their families what they're really about."

Such men, Nalls said, sometimes use women as a front. "They bring women to the company Christmas parties. They introduce them to their families. But the women are just that -- a front," she said. "And when everything comes spiraling down, when these women find out what's really going on, they can't help but feel used. They beat themselves up. They ask, 'Did he really care about me? Was everything just a lie?' "

The Rev. Herbert B. Chambers, a pastor for 16 years at Young's Memorial Church of Christ Holiness in Southeast Washington, disputes what he called the "myth of the homophobic black church." Some churches may not address homosexuality openly, he said, but they do understand that the men and women who are "involved in the gay life" are their brothers and sisters, their sons and daughters.

"I don't think all churches are publicly going to say that they endorse that alternative lifestyle, but I do think we have no fear of men and women who choose that life. . . . Put it this way: I may not accept his lifestyle, but that doesn't mean I don't care for him or love him. Most of us are awakening to the idea that gay men and women are a part of us. They're of our flesh," Chambers said.

He meets HIV-infected women, mostly mothers, through an AIDS housing and care program formed in 1992 with four other SE churches, and voiced his concern about the reluctance, by both men and women, he said, to use protection when having sex.

"What's happening to these women is a major problem," Chambers said. "We all need to be involved in trying to help them."

Nationwide, about 75 percent of newly infected women contract the disease through sexual contact and the rest through intravenous drug use, according to the CDC. Those percentages closely parallel the District's, said Guy Weston, director of data and research of the District's HIV/AIDS Administration.

In the District, adult women accounted for 33 percent of all AIDS cases in 2001, the latest year for which figures were available, Weston said. That percentage has increased more than 400 percent since 1981, when AIDS was first reported. Adult women represented 7.2 percent of AIDS cases in the District that year, and 11 percent in 1990. They are now the fastest-growing population at risk to HIV and AIDS, Weston said.

And although local health agencies have targeted men on the down low in their HIV prevention efforts, urging them to have safe sex, some question why almost nothing is being done to reach out to the women they infect and to call attention to their problems.

"There is a lack of open dialogue, and this side of the story of how black women are getting HIV hasn't been adequately addressed," said Carole Bernard, spokeswoman for the D.C.-based National AIDS Minority Council. Bernard said black women are the new face of the HIV epidemic in the District and in the country. "It makes it very hard for women to protect themselves when they don't fully know the sexual behavior of their partners. With the information that's out there, I'm not sure if it's clear enough for women to understand what's going on."

The disconnect was clear in May 2001. "If you have sex more ways than most folks, call the down low line," said the last sentence of a local, 60-second public service announcement on National Public Radio that aired in the District then.

"Men on the down low knew exactly what that meant," said Simmons of Us Helping Us, which produced the announcement with funding from the CDC. It received 614 phone calls in 2002, he said, mostly from men.

And women? "Other than making them mindful that their men are fooling around, what else can they do?" Simmons asked.

At the very least, these men are responsible for telling their female partners about their sexual behavior, said Eve Mokotoff, chief of HIV/AIDS epidemiology at the Michigan Department of Community Health. But many of the men deny their actions, she said.

"What's happening to these women is tragic, and it's not only specific to Washington, D.C.," Mokotoff said.

Women, in turn, need to empower and educate themselves -- they need to make sure they're having safe sex, said Nalls, who has been HIV-positive for 16 years. She was infected by her husband, who didn't sleep with men but had used intravenous drugs. "Protection is the answer here. It is sad and unfortunate that our society still doesn't embrace and accept homosexuality. But until then, what happens? Women cannot be the brunt of all of this. Men know how to put on a condom, and they need to be honest. Women need to ask questions, and they need to be careful."

A 27-year-old Southern Maryland resident tested positive for HIV after dating her boyfriend -- "an average working-class guy, not too personable, though he came across as a very good person," she said -- for six months. Though he never said he was bisexual, she said he believes that he is. It wasn't until she lay in a hospital bed at Shady Grove, running a high fever and suffering from severe flu, that he told her he was HIV-positive. That was 1997.

The woman, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, works in health care. "He knew what I did for a living. He knew I have to get tested every six months. He knew I'd find out. Why didn't he just tell me?"

She says she has nothing against gay or bisexual men; she has friends who are. "What I take issue with is that I wasn't given a choice. I didn't know. How could I know? I feel like someone has put a death sentence on me. He doesn't have the right to do that."



© 2003 The Washington Post Company

Y'all be careful out there. I will find the old thread and merge it but I want you all to read this CLEARLY and carefully.
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  #49  
Old 08-04-2003, 03:33 PM
AKA2D '91 AKA2D '91 is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Black Men's Hidden Sex Lives Imperiling Female Partners

Quote:
Originally posted by CrimsonTide4

She tested positive for HIV in October, infected by the man she had married the year before.


[/B]
See, this is some STRAIGHT BULLSH*T!

Even AFTER marriage, you have to wonder.

That's it! I'm going to have to go the sperm bank! Good grief!
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  #50  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:18 PM
Kimmie1913 Kimmie1913 is offline
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I found this article even more disurbing thatn the one that Carla posted yesterday. Sorry it is so long bt you really need to read the whole thing.

From the New York Times Magazine.
ntimes.com

In its upper stories, the Flex bathhouse in Cleveland feels like a squash club for backslapping businessmen. There's a large gym with free weights and exercise machines on the third floor. In the common area, on the main floor, men in towels lounge on couches and watch CNN on big-screen TV's.

In the basement, the mood is different: the TV's are tuned to porn, and the dimly lighted hallways buzz with sexual energy. A naked black man reclines on a sling in a room called ''the dungeon play area.'' Along a hallway lined with lockers, black men eye each other as they walk by in towels. In small rooms nearby, some men are having sex. Others are napping.

There are two bathhouses in Cleveland. On the city's predominantly white West Side, Club Cleveland -- which opened in 1965 and recently settled into a modern 15,000-square-foot space -- attracts many white and openly gay men. Flex is on the East Side, and it serves a mostly black and Hispanic clientele, many of whom don't consider themselves gay. (Flex recently shut its doors temporarily while it relocates.)

I go to Flex one night to meet Ricardo Wallace, an African-American outreach worker for the AIDS Task Force of Cleveland who comes here twice a month to test men for H.I.V. I eventually find him sitting alone on a twin-size bed in a small room on the main floor. Next to him on the bed are a dozen unopened condoms and several oral H.I.V.-testing kits.

Twenty years ago, Wallace came here for fun. He was 22 then, and AIDS seemed to kill only gay white men in San Francisco and New York. Wallace and the other black men who frequented Flex in the early 80's worried just about being spotted walking in the front door.

Today, while there are black men who are openly gay, it seems that the majority of those having sex with men still lead secret lives, products of a black culture that deems masculinity and fatherhood as a black man's primary responsibility -- and homosexuality as a white man's perversion. And while Flex now offers baskets of condoms and lubricant, Wallace says that many of the club's patrons still don't use them.

Wallace ticks off the grim statistics: blacks make up only 12 percent of the population in America, but they account for half of all new reported H.I.V. infections. While intravenous drug use is a large part of the problem, experts say that the leading cause of H.I.V. in black men is homosexual sex (some of which takes place in prison, where blacks disproportionately outnumber whites). According to the Centers for Disease Control, one-third of young urban black men who have sex with men in this country are H.I.V.-positive, and 90 percent of those are unaware of their infection.

We don't hear much about this aspect of the epidemic, mostly because the two communities most directly affected by it -- the black and gay communities -- have spent the better part of two decades eyeing each other through a haze of denial or studied disinterest. For African-Americans, facing and addressing the black AIDS crisis would require talking honestly and compassionately about homosexuality -- and that has proved remarkably difficult, whether it be in black churches, in black organizations or on inner-city playgrounds. The mainstream gay world, for its part, has spent 20 years largely fighting the epidemic among white, openly gay men, showing little sustained interest in reaching minorities who have sex with men and who refuse to call themselves gay.

Rejecting a gay culture they perceive as white and effeminate, many black men have settled on a new identity, with its own vocabulary and customs and its own name: Down Low. There have always been men -- black and white -- who have had secret sexual lives with men. But the creation of an organized, underground subculture largely made up of black men who otherwise live straight lives is a phenomenon of the last decade. Many of the men at Flex tonight -- and many of the black men I met these past months in Cleveland, Atlanta, Florida, New York and Boston -- are on the Down Low, or on the DL, as they more often call it. Most date or marry women and engage sexually with men they meet only in anonymous settings like bathhouses and parks or through the Internet. Many of these men are young and from the inner city, where they live in a hypermasculine ''thug'' culture. Other DL men form romantic relationships with men and may even be peripheral participants in mainstream gay culture, all unknown to their colleagues and families. Most DL men identify themselves not as gay or bisexual but first and foremost as black. To them, as to many blacks, that equates to being inherently masculine.

DL culture has grown, in recent years, out of the shadows and developed its own contemporary institutions, for those who know where to look: Web sites, Internet chat rooms, private parties and special nights at clubs. Over the same period, Down Low culture has come to the attention of alarmed public health officials, some of whom regard men on the DL as an infectious bridge spreading H.I.V. to unsuspecting wives and girlfriends. In 2001, almost two-thirds of women in the United States who found out they had AIDS were black.

With no wives or girlfriends around, Flex is a safe place for men on the DL to let down their guards. There aren't many white men here either (I'm one of them), and that's often the norm for DL parties and clubs. Some private DL events won't even let whites in the door. Others will let you in if you look ''black enough,'' which is code for looking masculine, tough and ''straight.'' That's not to say that DL guys are attracted only to men of color. ''Some of the black boys here love white boys,'' Wallace says.

While Wallace tests one man for H.I.V. (not all DL men ignore the health threat), I walk back downstairs to change into a towel -- I've been warned twice by Flex employees that clothes aren't allowed in the club. By the lockers, I notice a tall black man in his late teens or early 20's staring at me from a dozen lockers down. Abruptly, he walks over and puts his right hand on my left shoulder.

''You wanna hook up?'' he asks, smiling broadly.

His frankness takes me by surprise. Bathhouse courtship rituals usually involve a period of aggressive flirtation -- often heavy and deliberate staring. ''Are you gay?'' I ask him.

''Nah, man,'' he says. ''I got a girl. You look like you would have a girl, too.''

I tell him that I don't have a girl. ''Doesn't matter,'' he says, stepping closer. I decline his advances, to which he seems genuinely perplexed. Before I go back upstairs, I ask him if he normally uses condoms here.

As a recurring announcement comes over the club's loudspeaker -- ''H.I.V. testing is available in Room 207. . . . H.I.V. testing in Room 207'' -- he shakes his head. ''Nah, man,'' he says. ''I like it raw.''


If Cleveland is the kind of city many gay people flee, Atlanta is a city they escape to. For young black men, Atlanta is the hub of the South, a city with unlimited possibilities, including a place in its vibrant DL scene.

I went to Atlanta to meet William, an attractive 35-year-old black man on the DL who asked to be identified by his middle name. I met him in the America Online chat room DLThugs, where he spends some time most days searching for what he calls ''real'' DL guys -- as opposed to the ''flaming queens who like to pretend they're thugs and on the DL.'' William says he likes his guys ''to look like real guys,'' and his Internet profile makes it clear what he isn't looking for: NO STUPID QUESTIONS, FATS, WHITES, STALKERS OR QUEENS.

I told him I was a writer, and he eventually agreed to take me around to a few clubs in Atlanta. With one condition: ''You better dress cool,'' he warned me. ''Don't dress, you know, white.''

William smiles as I climb into his silver Jeep Grand Cherokee, which I take as a good sign. Two of William's best friends are in the car with him: Christopher, a thin, boyish 32-year-old with a shaved head, and Rakeem, an outgoing 31-year-old with dreadlocks who asked to be identified by his Muslim name. We drive toward the Palace, a downtown club popular with young guys on the DL.

William doesn't date women anymore and likes guys younger than he is, although they've been known to get more attached than he would prefer. ''Yeah, he's always getting stalked,'' Rakeem says enthusiastically. ''The boys just won't leave him alone. He's got this weird power to make boys act really stupid.''

It's easy to see why. William radiates confidence and control, which serve him well in his daytime role as an executive at a local corporation. He says his co-workers don't know he likes men (''It's none of their business,'' he tells me several times), or that after work he changes personas completely, becoming a major player in the city's DL scene, organizing parties and events.

Christopher, who sits in the back seat with me, is the only one of the three who is openly gay and not on the DL (although he won't tell me his last name, for fear of embarrassing his parents). Christopher moved to Atlanta when he was 24 and was surprised when black men in the city couldn't get enough of him. ''They would hit on me at the grocery store, on the street, on the train, always in this sly, DL kind of way where you never actually talk about what you're really doing,'' he says. ''That's actually how I met my current boyfriend. He followed me off the train.''

Rakeem, a roommate of William's, moved to Atlanta five years ago from Brooklyn. He says he's ''an urban black gay man on the DL,'' which he says reflects his comfort with his sexuality but his unwillingness to ''broadcast it.'' People at work don't know he's gay. His family wouldn't know, either, if a vindictive friend hadn't told them. ''I'm a guy's guy, a totally masculine black gay man, and that's just beyond my family's comprehension,'' he says.

While Rakeem and William proudly proclaim themselves on the Down Low, they wouldn't have been considered on the DL when men first started claiming the label in the mid-90's. Back then the culture was completely under the radar, and DL men lived ostensibly heterosexual lives (complete with wives and girlfriends) but also engaged in secret sexual relationships with men. Today, though, an increasing number of black men who have sex only with men identify themselves as DL, further muddying an already complicated group identity. And as DL culture expands, it has become an open secret.

For many men on the Down Low, including William and Rakeem, the DL label is both an announcement of masculinity and a separation from white gay culture. To them, it is the safest identity available -- they don't risk losing their ties to family, friends and black culture.

William parks the car in a secluded lot about a block from the Palace. As he breaks out some pot, I ask them if they heard about what happened recently at Morehouse College, where one black student beat another with a bat supposedly for looking at him the wrong way in a dormitory shower.

''I'm surprised that kind of stuff doesn't happen more often,'' William says. ''The only reason it doesn't is because most black guys are sly enough about it that they aren't gonna get themselves beaten up. If you're masculine and a guy thinks you're checking him out, you can always say: 'Whoa, chill, I ain't checking you out. Look at me. Do I look gay to you?' ''

Masculinity is a surprisingly effective defense, because until recently the only popular representations of black gay men were what William calls ''drag queens or sissies.'' Rakeem takes a hit from the bowl. ''We know there are black gay rappers, black gay athletes, but they're all on the DL,'' Rakeem says. ''If you're white, you can come out as an openly gay skier or actor or whatever. It might hurt you some, but it's not like if you're black and gay, because then it's like you've let down the whole black community, black women, black history, black pride. You don't hear black people say, 'Oh yeah, he's gay, but he's still a real man, and he still takes care of all his responsibilities.' What you hear is, 'Look at that sissy faggot.' ''

I ask them what the difference is between being on the DL and being in the closet. ''Being on the DL is about having fun,'' William tells me. ''Being who you are, but keeping your business to yourself. The closet isn't fun. In the closet, you're lonely.''

''I don't know,'' Christopher says. ''In some ways I think DL is just a new, sexier way to say you're in the closet.''

Both have a point. As William says, DL culture does place a premium on pleasure. It is, DL guys insist, one big party. And there is a certain freedom in not playing by modern society's rules of self-identification, in not having to explain yourself, or your sexuality, to anyone. Like the black athletes and rappers they idolize, DL men convey a strong sense of masculine independence and power: I do what I want when I want with whom I want. Even the term Down Low -- which was popularized in the 1990's by the singers TLC and R. Kelly, meaning ''secret'' -- has a sexy ring to it, a hint that you're doing something wrong that feels right.

But for all their supposed freedom, many men on the DL are as trapped -- or more trapped -- than their white counterparts in the closet. While DL guys regard the closet as something alien (a sad, stifling place where fearful people hide), the closet can be temporary (many closeted men plan to someday ''come out''). But black men on the DL typically say they're on the DL for life. Since they generally don't see themselves as gay, there is nothing to ''come out'' to, there is no next step.

Sufficiently stoned, the guys decide to make an appearance at the Palace. More than anything, the place feels like a rundown loft where somebody stuck a bar and a dance floor and called it a club. Still, it's one of the most popular hangouts for young black men on the DL in Atlanta.

William surveys the crowd, which is made up mostly of DL ''homo thugs,'' black guys dressed like gangsters and rappers (baggy jeans, do-rags, and FUBU jackets). ''So many people in here try so hard to look like they're badasses,'' he says. ''Everyone wants to look like they're on the DL.''

As I look out onto the dance floor, I can't help doing the math. If the C.D.C. is right that nearly 1 in 3 young black men who have sex with men is H.I.V.-positive, then about 50 of the young men on this dance floor are infected, and most of them don't know it.

''You have no idea how many of the boys here tonight would let me'' -- have sex with them -- ''without a condom,'' William tells me. ''These young guys swear they know it all. They all want a black thug. They just want the black thug to do his thing.''

While William and many other DL men insist that they're strictly ''tops'' -- meaning they play the active, more stereotypically ''masculine'' role during sexual intercourse -- other DL guys proudly advertise themselves as ''masculine bottom brothas'' on their Internet profiles. They may play the stereotypically passive role during sex, they say, but they're just as much men, and just as aggressive, as DL tops. As one DL guy writes on his America Online profile, ''Just 'cause I am a bottom, don't take me for a bitch.''

Still, William says that many DL guys are in a never-ending search for the roughest, most masculine, ''straightest looking'' DL top. Both William and Christopher, who lost friends to AIDS, say they always use condoms. But as William explains: ''Part of the attraction to thugs is that they're careless and carefree. Putting on a condom doesn't fit in with that. A lot of DL guys aren't going to put on a condom, because that ruins the fantasy.'' It also shatters the denial -- stopping to put on a condom forces guys on the DL to acknowledge, on some level, that they're having sex with men.


In 1992, E. Lynn Harris -- then an unknown black writer -- self-published ''Invisible Life,'' the fictional coming-of-age story of Raymond Tyler, a masculine young black man devoted to his girlfriend but consumed by his attraction to men. For Tyler, being black is hard enough; being black and gay seems a cruel and impossible proposition. Eventually picked up by a publisher, ''Invisible Life'' went on to sell nearly 500,000 copies, many purchased by black women shocked at the idea that black men who weren't effeminate could be having sex with men.

''I was surprised by the reaction to my book,'' Harris said. ''People were in such denial that black men could be doing this. Well, they were doing it then, and they're doing it now.''

That behavior has public health implications. A few years ago, the epidemiological data started rolling in, showing increasing numbers of black women who weren't IV drug users becoming infected with H.I.V. While some were no doubt infected by men who were using drugs, experts say many were most likely infected by men on the Down Low. Suddenly, says Chris Bell, a 29-year-old H.I.V.-positive black man from Chicago who often speaks at colleges about sexuality and AIDS, DL guys were being demonized. They became the ''modern version of the highly sexually dangerous, irresponsible black man who doesn't care about anyone and just wants to get off.'' Bell and others say that while black men had been dying of AIDS for years, it wasn't until ''innocent'' black women became infected that the black community bothered to notice.

For white people, Bell said, ''DL life fit in perfectly with our society's simultaneous obsession and aversion to black male sexuality.'' But if the old stereotypes of black sexual aggression were resurrected, there was a significant shift: this time, white women were not cast as the innocent victims. Now it was black women and children. The resulting permutations confounded just about everyone, black and white, straight and gay. How should guys on the DL be regarded? Whose responsibility are they? Are they gay, straight or bisexual? If they are gay, why don't they just tough it up, come out and move to a big-city gay neighborhood like so many other gay men and lesbians? If they are straight, what are they doing having sex with guys in parks and bathhouses? If they are bisexual, why not just say that? Why, as the C.D.C. reported, are black men who have sex with men more than twice as likely to keep their sexual practices a secret than whites? Most important to many, why can't these black men at least get tested for H.I.V.?

The easy answer to most of these questions is that the black community is simply too homophobic: from womanizing rappers to moralizing preachers, much of the black community views homosexuality as a curse against a race with too many strikes against it. The white community, the conventional wisdom goes, is more accepting of its sexual minorities, leading to fewer double lives, less shame and less unsafe sex. (AIDS researchers point to shame and stigma as two of the driving forces spreading AIDS in America.)

But some scholars have come to doubt the reading of black culture as intrinsically more homophobic than white culture. ''I think it's unfair to categorize it that way today, and it is absolutely not the case historically,'' says George Chauncey, the noted professor of gay and lesbian history at the University of Chicago. ''Especially in the 1940's and 50's, when anti-gay attitudes were at their peak in white American society, black society was much more accepting. People usually expected their gay friends and relatives to remain discreet, but even so, it was better than in white society.''

Glenn Ligon, a black visual artist who is openly gay, recalls that as a child coming of age in the 70's, he always felt there was a space in black culture for openly gay men. ''It was a limited space, but it was there,'' he says. ''After all, where else could we go? The white community wasn't that accepting of us. And the black community had to protect its own.''

Ligon, whose artwork often deals with sexuality and race, thinks that the pressure to keep homosexuality on the DL does not come exclusively from other black people, but also from the social and economic realities particular to black men. ''The reason that so many young black men aren't so cavalier about announcing their sexual orientation is because we need our families,'' he says. ''We need our families because of economic reasons, because of racism, because of a million reasons. It's the idea that black people have to stick together, and if there's the slightest possibility that coming out could disrupt that, guys won't do it.'' (That may help explain why many of the black men who are openly gay tend to be more educated, have more money and generally have a greater sense of security.)

But to many men on the DL, sociological and financial considerations are beside the point: they say they wouldn't come out even if they felt they could. They see black men who do come out either as having chosen their sexuality over their skin color or as being so effeminate that they wouldn't have fooled anyone anyway. In a black world that puts a premium on hypermasculinity, men who have sex with other men are particularly sensitive to not appearing soft in any way. Maybe that's why many guys on the DL don't go to gay bars. ''Most of the guys I've messed around with, I've actually met at straight clubs,'' says D., a 21-year-old college student on the DL whom I met on the Internet, and then in person in New York City. ''Guys will come up to me and ask me some stupid thing like, 'Yo, you got a piece of gum?' I'll say, 'Nah, but what's up?' Some guys will look at me and say, 'What do you mean, what's up?' but the ones on the DL will keep talking to me.'' Later he adds: ''It's easier for me to date guys on the DL. Gay guys get too clingy, and they can blow your cover. Real DL guys, they have something to lose, too. It's just safer to be with someone who has something to lose.''

D. says he prefers sex with women, but he sometimes has sex with men because he ''gets bored.'' But even the DL guys I spoke with who say they prefer sex with men are adamant that the nomenclature of white gay culture has no relevance for them. ''I'm masculine,'' as one 18-year-old college student from Providence, R.I., who is on the DL told me over the phone. ''There's no way I'm gay.'' I asked him what his definition of gay is. ''Gays are the faggots who dress, talk and act like girls. That's not me.''

That kind of logic infuriates many mainstream gay people. To them, life on the DL is an elaborately rationalized repudiation of everything the gay rights movement fought for -- the right to live without shame and without fear of reprisal. It's a step back into the dark days before liberation, before gay-bashing was considered a crime, before gay television characters were considered family entertainment and way, way before the current Supreme Court ruled that gay people are ''entitled to respect for their private lives.'' Emil Wilbekin, the black and openly gay editor in chief of Vibe magazine, has little patience for men on the DL. ''To me, it's a dangerous cop-out,'' he says. ''I get that it's sexy. I get that it's hot to see some big burly hip-hop kid who looks straight but sleeps with guys, but the bottom line is that it's dishonest. I think you have to love who you are, you have to have respect for yourself and others, and to me most men on the DL have none of those qualities. There's nothing 'sexy' about getting H.I.V., or giving it to your male and female lovers. That's not what being a real black man is about.''

Though the issues being debated have life-and-death implications, the tenor of the debate owes much to the overcharged identity politics of the last two decades. As Chauncey points out, the assumption that anyone has to name their sexual behavior at all is relatively recent. ''A lot of people look at these DL guys and say they must really be gay, no matter what they say about themselves, but who's to know?'' he says. ''In the early 1900's, many men in immigrant and African-American working-class communities engaged in sex with other men without being stigmatized as queer. But it's hard for people to accept that something that seems so intimate and inborn to them as being gay or straight isn't universal.''

Whatever the case, most guys on the DL are well aware of the contempt with which their choices are viewed by many out gay men. And if there are some DL guys willing to take the risk -- to jeopardize their social and family standing by declaring their sexuality -- that contempt doesn't do much to convince them they'd ever really be welcome in Manhattan's Chelsea or on Fire Island. ''Mainstream gay culture has created an alternative to mainstream culture,'' says John Peterson, a professor of psychology at Georgia State University who specializes in AIDS research among black men, ''and many whites take advantage of that. They say, 'I will leave Podunk and I will go to the gay barrios of San Francisco and other cities, and I will go live there, be who I really am, and be part of the mainstream.' Many African-Americans say, 'I can't go and face the racism I will see there, and I can't create a functioning alternative society because I don't have the resources.' They're stuck.'' As Peterson, who says that the majority of black men who have sex with men are on the DL, boils it down, ''The choice becomes, do I want to be discriminated against at home for my sexuality, or do I want to move away and be discriminated against for my skin color?''

So increasing numbers of black men -- and, lately, other men of color who claim the DL identity -- split the difference. They've created a community of their own, a cultural ''party'' where whites aren't invited. ''Labeling yourself as DL is a way to disassociate from everything white and upper class,'' says George Ayala, the director of education for AIDS Project Los Angeles. And that, he says, is a way for DL men to assert some power.

Still, for all the defiance that DL culture claims for itself, for all the forcefulness of the ''never apologize, never explain'' stance, a sense of shame can hover at the margins. It's the inevitable price of living a double life. Consider these last lines of a DL college student's online profile. ''Lookin 4 cool ass brothers on tha down low. . . . You aint dl if you have a V.I.P. pass to tha gay spot. . . . You aint dl if you call ur dude 'gurl.' . . . Put some bass in ur voice yo and whats tha deal wit tha attitude? If I wanted a broad I would get one -- we both know what we doin is wrong.''


The world headquarters of the Web site www.streetthugz.com is a small, nondescript storefront next to a leather bar on Cleveland's West Side. The site's founder, Rick Dickson, invites me to watch one of its live Web casts, which he says feature ''the most masculine DL brothers in the world doing what they do best.''

Rick opens the door holding a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other. Inside, a group of young black men sit in a thick haze of cigarette smoke as the song ''Bitch Better Have My Money'' plays from a nearby stereo. By the far wall, two men type frantically on computer keyboards, participating in 30 chat-room conversations at once. Near the street-front window, which is covered by a red sheet, there are three muscular black men in their early 20's.

Rick sits down and lights another cigarette. A part-time comic who goes by the stage name Slick Rick, he has a shaved head, piercing green eyes and a light-skinned face with a default setting on mean. Twice a week, Rick's thugs, as he calls them, perform a sex show for anyone who cares to log on. Although less than a year old, the site has developed a devoted following, thanks mostly to chat-room word of mouth. ''We're going to be the next Bill Gates of the Internet industry,'' he assures me. ''We got black DL thugs getting it on, and that's what people want to see!''

One of the site's most popular stars is a tall, strikingly handsome 23-year-old former Division 1 basketball player, who goes by the name Jigga. When I first meet Jigga about 10 minutes before the show, he's naked, stretching and doing push-ups in an adjacent room as he peppers me with questions about journalism and sportswriting. ''I want to be a sportswriter,'' he says. ''Either that, or a lawyer. I love to argue.''

Unlike some of the other streetthugz stars who dropped out of school and hustle for money, Jigga says he comes from a close middle-class family and always did well academically. Considering all that, I ask him how he came to find himself here. ''It's some extra cash,'' he says. ''But mostly, it's 'cause I like the attention. What can I say? I'm vain.'' Jigga says he has sex with both men and women, but he doesn't label himself as bisexual. ''I'm just freaky,'' he says with a smile.

Like many guys on the DL, Jigga first connected to other DL men through phone personals lines, which still have certain advantages over Internet chat rooms. ''You can tell a lot right away by a voice,'' he says later. ''There are guys who naturally sound masculine, and then there's guys who are obviously trying to hide the fact that they're big girls.''

At 10:07 p.m., seven minutes behind schedule, Rick announces, ''It's show time at the Apollo.'' He unfolds a burgundy carpet that serves as the stage, and Jigga and two thugs take their places. The phone won't stop ringing as viewers call to make requests (''Can I talk to Jigga when he's done?''), and Rick answers each call with an enthusiastic reference to the caller's location. ''Hey, we got Detroit in the house! Say wuzzup to Detroit!''

The show temporarily goes ''off air'' when Chi, a 32-year-old promoter for the site, trips over the MegaCam's power cord. While someone else plugs it back in, he takes a seat on the sidelines. Thin and deceptively strong, Chi looks younger than his age. He has a tattoo on his left arm, which he tells me is a reminder of his gang days. Back then, he says, before he moved to Cleveland, his life was a disaster: he had three kids with three women and spent most of his 20's in jail for drug trafficking.

Chi says he doesn't deal drugs anymore -- not since his mother, a heroin addict, died with a needle in her arm. Today he works at a fast-food joint in a shopping-mall food court and is a talent scout for Rick, which means that if he spots a young black man with ''the look'' (tough, masculine and preferably with a wild streak), he'll ask him if he'd like to take some pictures for money -- or, better yet, act in one of the site's live sex shows. Chi has a fiancée he has been with for four years.

When Rick has seen enough foreplay, he throws condoms at the boys. Rick has been making a big deal to me about how his site promotes safe sex, which he insists is a moral obligation at a time when so many young black men in America are dying of AIDS. But previous viewers of the show told me they didn't see condoms being used, and the site boasts of keeping everything ''raw.'' I ask Rick about the discrepancy. ''It's just an expression, man,'' he says, and explains that the sex is sometimes simulated.

The actors seem somewhat bored, but the point, I gather, is not what they do on camera, but how they look. And these guys look straight -- in fact, they look as if they might rather be having sex with women. That, Rick knows, is the ultimate turn-on in much of the DL world, where the sexual icon is the tough unemotional gangster thug.

''Do these guys ever kiss?'' I ask Rick.

''Well,'' he explains, ''thugs don't really kiss. Sometimes they stick their tongues in each other's mouths, but it's not really kissing. Gay people kiss. DL thugs don't kiss.''


In May 1986, Sandra Singleton McDonald showed up at the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, eager to begin her research into diseases affecting blacks in the South.

''Well,'' said a young research assistant there, ''then you'll want to look into AIDS.''

McDonald laughed. ''Baby, you must have misunderstood my question,'' she said in her loving, motherly voice. ''I'm talking about African-American diseases.''

''Yes, I know,'' the man said. ''Like I said, you'll want to look into AIDS.''

McDonald did, and what she learned floored her. ''This wasn't just a gay, white man's disease like we had all been told from the beginning,'' recalls McDonald, the founder of Outreach Inc., an Atlanta-based nonprofit organization providing services to those affected by AIDS and substance abuse in the city's black communities. ''I went out and told leaders in the black community that we needed to start dealing with this now, and they looked at me like I was crazy. People were outraged that I was even bringing this up. They said, 'Oh, be quiet, that's a white problem.' But why would we think that a sexually transmitted disease would stay within one racial group, or within one geographic area? It made no sense. The public health community made a lot of mistakes and gave out a lot of wrong information. Once we became aware of the impact of the disease, we did a lot of blaming and shaming so that we could feel O.K. and say, 'This isn't about us.' ''

Five years later, that fiction ceased to be viable when Magic Johnson told a national television audience that he was H.I.V.-positive. AIDS organizations were flooded with calls from panicked black men and women wanting to know more about the disease. Meanwhile, Magic dismissed the rumors that he'd slept with men during his N.B.A. career, insisting he didn't get infected through homosexual sex, but rather through sex with a woman. Young black men on inner-city basketball courts weren't so sure. They wondered if maybe Magic had men on the side.

That it took Johnson's announcement to introduce the reality of AIDS to the black community goes to the depth of the denial around the disease. By 1991, 35,990 African-American men had been reported with AIDS (roughly half having contracted it through sexual intercourse), accounting for about a quarter of all AIDS cases in America. But while there was a mass mobilization around AIDS in the early 80's among gay white men, there was no similar movement among black men with AIDS, black leaders, politicians, clergy or civil rights organizations. ''There was a real sense in black communities that you had to put your best face forward in order to prove that you deserve equal rights and equal status, and that face didn't include gays and IV drug users with AIDS,'' says Cathy Cohen, author of ''The Boundaries of Blackness: AIDS and the Breakdown of Black Politics.'' ''It's been a very slow process for the black leadership in America to own up to this disease. Not acknowledge it in passing, but own it.''

Black churches, which are the heart of many African-American communities, were particularly slow to respond to the crisis, and many still haven't, even despite the disease's ravages within their parishes. In 1999, after female congregants of Cleveland's Antioch Baptist Church told their pastor that they were H.I.V.-positive, the church started an AIDS ministry that has been applauded for its courage and effectiveness. Still, the black church -- like many in white America -- is careful not to condone homosexual behavior. ''Some gays want a flat-out, standing-on-the-tower affirmation from the church that the gay lifestyle, or the lifestyle of whoring around with men, is acceptable,'' says Kelvin Berry, the director of the Antioch program. ''And that's not going to happen.''

Combating AIDS in these communities also means confronting popular conspiracy theories that claim that H.I.V. was created by the U.S. government to kill black people. One study in the 90's by the Southern Christian Leadership Conference found that 54 percent of blacks thought H.I.V. testing was a trick to infect them with AIDS. In the early 90's, the rapper Kool Moe Dee and Spike Lee expressed concern that H.I.V. was a part of a calculated campaign intended to rid the world of gay men and minorities, and as recently as 1999, Will Smith told Vanity Fair that ''possibly AIDS was created as a result of biological-warfare testing.''

Pernessa C. Seele, founder and C.E.O. of the Balm in Gilead, an international AIDS organization that works with black churches, explained, ''For the most part, we don't want to get tested, and we don't want to get treatment, because we really believe that the system is designed to kill us.'' She continued: ''And our history allows us, or helps us, to believe that. We have documented history where these kinds of diseases have been perpetuated on us. And that's why it's so important for the church to get involved. Black people trust the church. We don't trust health care. We don't trust doctors and nurses, but we trust the church. So when the church says, 'Get tested,' when the church says, 'Take your medicine,' people will do it.''

Other black AIDS organizations are focused on prevention. In some cases, the strategies are straightforward: push condoms, distribute clean needles. But reaching men on the DL is difficult. James L. King, a publishing executive, spoke about his former DL life at a National Conference on African-Americans and AIDS. ''I sleep with men, but I am not bisexual, and I am certainly not gay,'' King said. ''I am not going to your clinics, I am not going to read your brochures, I am not going to get tested. I assure you that none of the brothers on the Down Low are paying the least bit of attention to what you say.''

Earl Pike, executive director of the AIDS Task Force of Cleveland, agrees that many of the prevention messages aimed at black men have been unsuccessful. ''Up to this point, we've failed to make a convincing case to young black men about why they should listen to us when we tell them to put on a condom, mostly because we've had the wrong people delivering the wrong kind of message,'' he says. ''The usual prevention message for all these years can be interpreted as saying: 'Gee, we're sorry about racism. We're sorry about homophobia in your homes and churches. We're sorry that urban schools are crappy. We're sorry that you can't find a good job. We're sorry about lack of literacy. We're sorry about all these things, but you really need to start using condoms, because if you don't, you could get infected tomorrow, or next year, or some point during the next decade, and if you do get infected, at some point, you could get sick and die.' ''

Many AIDS organizations now say that frank, sexy prevention messages that use the masculine imagery of hip-hop culture are the only way to reach men on the DL. In St. Louis, for example, a $64,000 federal grant financed a billboard campaign -- depicting two muscular, shirtless black men embracing -- aimed at raising AIDS awareness. But Mayor Francis Slay called the billboards inappropriate and ordered them taken down.


"I need a beer,'' Chi says as we drive through downtown Cleveland on a Saturday night, looking for something to do. It's been three months since I last saw him at the streetthugz.com filming. As we stop at a red light, he turns to get a better look at a young Hispanic woman in the car next to us. ''That girl is beautiful,'' he says. ''But she needs to lose the car. What a shame -- a beautiful woman driving a Neon!''

Chi loves women. He also likes men, although, like many guys on the DL, he doesn't verbalize his attraction to them, even when he's with like-minded people. When I ask him about this, he's stumped to explain why. ''I don't know,'' he says. ''Maybe it's because being black, you just learn to keep that to yourself.'' Anyway, he always had a girlfriend. ''Guys were there for sex.''

Unlike many other DL guys, who never tell anyone about their private lives, Chi opens up with little prompting. He says that he loves his fiancée but that he doesn't consider the sex he has with men to be cheating. ''Guys are a totally different thing.''

Unbeknown to his fiancée, he has been casually dating his male roommate for several months. ''I told her that he's gay and makes passes at me,'' he says, ''but she doesn't know we have sex.'' On some level, Chi says he feels bad about the deception. Right now, though, he isn't feeling guilty. His fiancée just called to tell him that she's going out tonight -- and that he needs to come over to pick up their feisty 1-year-old son.

''She just wants to go out and shake her groove thing with her friends instead of taking care of him like she said she would,'' Chi says. ''Man, she's selfish sometimes. I love her, but sometimes I hate her, you know what I'm saying?''

We pull up to Chi's apartment, where his fiancée and two of her friends are waiting for him in the driveway. Inside the apartment, the couple argue about whose turn it is to take care of their son while I sit in the dining room and watch him fearlessly attack the four house cats. In the dark living room, Chi's roommate, who is white, lounges on the couch in blue boxers, chain-smoking as he half-watches television.

Chi's fiancée eventually leaves, after which Chi changes out of his work shirt and mixes a drink for the road. ''We've been on shaky ground,'' Chi tells me, referring to his roommate. ''He loves me, but I'm committed to someone else. I think he has problems dealing with that. Like I tell him, 'I care about you, but I can't be that guy you want.' '' What Chi means, I think, is that he can't be gay.

Chi puts his son in the back seat of the car, and we drive toward Dominos, a black gay bar where we're supposed to meet Jigga. Chi spends most of the ride complaining about his fiancée. His son finally starts crying and kicks the back of Chi's seat. ''Yeah, defend yo mama!'' Chi says, laughing.

They wait in the car as I walk into Dominos looking for Jigga. The long, rectangular-shaped bar is packed with regulars tonight, mostly middle-aged black men -- some openly gay, others on the DL -- and a few tough-looking younger guys. Jigga spots me first and waves me over to the bar. He tells me a lot has changed since the first time I met him. He's in law school now and has put aside the sportswriter idea. And while he is still on the DL (his co-workers and most of his straight friends don't know he likes guys), he has a serious boyfriend who is also on the DL.

Four months ago, having a serious boyfriend would have been inconceivable to him. ''I think I love this dude,'' he tells me as we walk to the car. ''He's got a lot of attitude, but I kind of like that. We have fistfights all the time, and we don't stop until somebody has blood. Then we have sex.'' Jigga laughs as he opens the car door. ''But I must really love him, because I never got in fistfights with any of my exes.''

I'm about to question his definition of love when Chi interjects. ''I still need a beer,'' he says, pointing the way toward a nearby gas station. We pull into a tight parking spot, careful to avoid the young black man with a sideways baseball cap who leans into the car next to us, blocking Chi's passenger-side door. ''Move your ass,'' Chi says, knocking the kid out of the way with the car door. The boy laughs it off, avoiding a possible confrontation.

''I think I hooked up with him,'' Jigga says, craning his neck from the back seat to get a better look at the kid. ''Actually, nah, that's not him. Looks like him, though.''

Recently, Jigga told his parents that he's interested in both guys and girls. ''I was drunk when I told them,'' he says. ''But I'm glad I did. They've been really cool about it.'' It takes me a few seconds to process the words. Really cool about it? In six months of talking to young black gay and DL men, I found that Jigga is one of the few who told his parents, and the only one who reported unconditional acceptance. ''I'm blessed,'' he says. ''I realize that. Black parents don't accept their gay kids. Black culture doesn't accept gay people. Why do you think so many people are on the DL?''

Jigga is proof that being on the DL isn't necessarily a lifelong identity. He seems considerably more comfortable with his sexuality than he was the first time I met him, and I suspect that soon enough, he may be openly gay in all facets of his life without losing his much-coveted masculinity. I tell him what I'm thinking. ''Who knows, man?'' he says. ''Two years ago, I wouldn't have believed that I'd be having sex with guys.'' Chi opens the car door, cradling a six-pack of beer. ''I love beer,'' he says, smiling. As we drive away, he checks out a young woman stepping out of a nearby Honda Civic. ''Damn, that girl is fine!''



Benoit Denizet-Lewis is a writer living in Boston. His last article for the magazine was about a biological girl living as a boy.
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  #51  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:42 PM
Steeltrap Steeltrap is offline
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Lightbulb Stunning stuff

Thank you, Kimmie, for posting this. It's very scary to realize that this is going on. As a nearly 40-year-old who doesn't have a life partner, this stuff terrorizes me.
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  #52  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:47 PM
AKA2D '91 AKA2D '91 is offline
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CLOSED!!!!!!!!!

Forget my earlier sentiments....I'm ADOPTING!
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  #53  
Old 08-05-2003, 03:06 PM
Kimmie1913 Kimmie1913 is offline
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Re: Stunning stuff

Quote:
Originally posted by Steeltrap
Thank you, Kimmie, for posting this. It's very scary to realize that this is going on. As a nearly 40-year-old who doesn't have a life partner, this stuff terrorizes me.
I know. It is frightening to me, too. It is sad enough there ther are so many decietful people running around but this type of betrayal and the health risks, too... sigh...it just feels like another sad factor in Black male female relationships.
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  #54  
Old 08-05-2003, 03:13 PM
MaMaBuddha MaMaBuddha is offline
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Angry twisted reality...

this is a shame...

i actually have no words to say.

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  #55  
Old 08-05-2003, 05:32 PM
JJSP01 JJSP01 is offline
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Eye-Opening!!

Wow! As a 28 year old woman dating in the Baltimore-DC area, this is soooo shocking to me! I knew about "homothugs", I remember there was a thread about it a while ago, but to read about the culture of the homothugs and how they rationalize their behavior....it's such a shock.
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  #56  
Old 08-05-2003, 09:33 PM
AKA_Monet AKA_Monet is offline
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When you get serious

Demand your man to take a HIV test AND show you the results... WTF!!! TAKE HIM TO THE DAYUM CLINIC TO GET IT DONE AND PAY FOR THE TEST IF YOU LOVE HIM ENUF!!!

I couldn't read through all the posts, but my questions is, can we be blunt about a brutha's sexual preferences? Can we just plainly, bluntly ask? 'Cuz if I plan to spend the rest of my life with my man, I wanna know if I have to get term life insurance or a "viatical" reverse mortgage??? Can we be blunt?

Example:

Have you been tested for HIV, lately? Have you ever come up positive?

ANY hesitation on the answer would suggest to me that there are issues abound that I would have yet to want to contend with...

Remember, if he really loves you, then he would protect you... If he doesn't give a dayum, then you would see the inflection in his voice... Even if he says he's negative, still TAKE him to get tested if you have to--AND it ain't about trust... It's your dayum LIFE!!!
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  #57  
Old 08-06-2003, 05:41 AM
DELTABRAT DELTABRAT is offline
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Unfortunately, you can't just have them test ONCE either. You pretty much have to go through your ENTIRE relationship being tested for HIV. Every three months.


This al happened to a aistah named Lynn Chamberlan who now does HIV education for the NFL. Her mother also runs an HIV education and hospice for HIV Pos Wome called MArylin's Manor in Los Angeles. She was dating a bisexual man lke 15 years ag a contracted HIV. She was at Tuskegee and was infected by her boyfriend who had it for 2 years and didn't tell her.

Her story is

http://www.blackaids.org/kujisource/...hamberlain.htm

It doesn't say but he was bisexual. She is now engaged to be married.
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  #58  
Old 08-06-2003, 02:51 PM
Kimmie1913 Kimmie1913 is offline
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Not completely on point but...

...still related to the topic. This is a special warning for all of the sorors and sf's out there on college campuses.

"Number of New HIV Cases Increasing Among North Carolina College
Students"
[Aug 04, 2003, http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_.../rep_index.cfm?
DR_ID=19175]

The number of new HIV cases has "risen sharply" among North Carolina college students, especially among African-American males, according to a study by the state Department of Health and Human Services and the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill that was presented on Wednesday at the 2003 National HIV Prevention Conference in Atlanta, the Charlotte Observer reports (Stobbe/Suchetka, Charlotte Observer, 7/31). The study found
that in the past 18 months, at least 53 male students at North Carolina colleges have contracted HIV, and almost all of the students are African-American, according to the Greensboro News & Record. While examining the results of a new test that county health departments and private clinics began administering in November 2002 that can detect new infections within two
weeks of exposure, researchers found that two of the five people who tested HIV-positive over a three-month period in the Triangle area were black male college students. The researchers did not disclose what school the students attend. The researchers then looked at new HIV infections in Durham, Orange
and Wake counties confirmed between January 2001 and February 2003. Of the 146 men who tested HIV-positive during that period, 25 were students at public, private or community colleges, and 88% were African-American men who had sex with men, according to the News & Record. Researchers then examined
HIV cases in Guilford, Forsyth, Mecklenburg and Pitt counties and discovered that 28 HIV cases identified over a two-year period were among college tudents (Nwsom, Greensboro News & Record, 7/31).

State Data Reflects National Trend
According to the Observer, the number of new HIV cases identified in North Carolina has been rising for three years, and African Americans are 14 times more likely than whites to be HIV-positive (Charlotte Observer, 7/31). Nationwide, the number of newly diagnosed men who have sex with men rose in
2002 for the third consecutive year, rising 7.1% from 2001 to 2002, the CDC announced last week at the conference. The new findings are fueling fears that HIV might be making a comeback among MSM (Kaiser Daily HIV/AIDS Report, 7/28). Many of the college students who tested HIV-positive said that they
had met sex partners at gay bars, over the Internet or through phone dating services, according to the Observer. The researchers did not compare the HIV incidence among college students to people of the same age in the general population (Charlotte Observer, 7/31).

Reaction
The researchers said they were "alarmed" by the recent findings, which represent the first time in 20 years of HIV/AIDS research in which college campuses have been identified as "high transmission areas," according to the News & Record (Greensboro News & Record, 7/31). Christopher Pilcher, a study
co-author and assistant professor at the UNC-CH School of Medicine, said, "This is a first indication that there may be a resurgence of HIV happening in a vulnerable population, in this case young black men in the South" (Associated Press, 7/31). Peter Leone, medical director of the HIV prevention branch of NCDHHS, said that the recent increase in cases among
college students could be "just the tip of the iceberg." Pilcher said
that the findings present a "clear indication that more attention should be focused on HIV prevention and education" (Greensboro News & Record, 7/31). In response to the study, colleges are planning new HIV prevention efforts, according to the Observer. North Carolina State University in the fall plans to run advertisements in school newspapers reminding students that HIV/AIDS still poses a threat. N.C. State and several other colleges will also hand out cards informing students where they can obtain free condoms or free HIV tests. The state last week held a training session for health care workers at North Carolina's historically black colleges to try to increase HIV testing on campuses in the fall, according to the Observer. "We're really
just stepping up or enhancing what we're already doing," Jerry Barker, director of student health services at N.C. State, said (Charlotte Observer,
7/31).
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  #59  
Old 08-06-2003, 04:21 PM
nikki1920 nikki1920 is offline
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Red face

Wow.. no words.

ok, some.
1. Be frank. Ask your man, straight up if he's ever slept with a man.
2. Get tested.
3. Get tested again three months later.
4. Get tested every six months after that.
5. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS use a condom.

Wow.
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  #60  
Old 08-06-2003, 04:28 PM
AKA2D '91 AKA2D '91 is offline
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Location: Homeownerville USA!!!
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HONESTY....

Quote:
Originally posted by nikki1920
Wow.. no words.

ok, some.
1. Be frank. Ask your man, straight up if he's ever slept with a man.
2. Get tested.
3. Get tested again three months later.
4. Get tested every six months after that.
5. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS use a condom.

Wow.
Okay. Is he REALLY gonna say, "why yes, nikki, I have slept with Joe Blow."

This is where the problem lies. (literally)

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