School Vouchers

[Wine&SilverBlue]

ideally the money should be put into fixing public schools. i don't know how practical that is.

*HOWEVER* i am 100000000% AGAINST government money paying for kids to attend religiously-affiliated private schools.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Wine&SilverBlue
*HOWEVER* i am 100000000% AGAINST government money paying for kids to attend religiously-affiliated private schools.

Is it wrong if the government pays for someone to attend a university like Notre Dame?

[33girl]

Originally posted by hoosier
Did you - do you - support the bussing plans used to promote school intergration?

That's a little before my time, so I honestly don't know how to answer because I don't know how it worked (i.e. did random kids from all areas of the SD get bussed to another school, or was it more of a "merger" type situation).

Interesting that you should ask that, because the SD where I live now only relatively recently was released from court control. It was created by merging 3 predominantly black and 4 predominantly white districts. The order was lifted because it's been determined (legally, that is) that the district is fully desegregated. This is a very very very simplified explanation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is a merger is one thing, cherrypicking individual kids out of their home schools is another.

Originally posted by Wine&SilverBlue
ideally the money should be put into fixing public schools. i don't know how practical that is.

*HOWEVER* i am 100000000% AGAINST government money paying for kids to attend religiously-affiliated private schools.

Vouchers are not limited to religiously affiliated private schools.

[KSig RC]

I went to a 'magnet school' - it did nothing to help the bottom end of the socioeconomic spectrum keep up with test scores etc. It just removed the top tier of students from classes. Incidently, this was the greatest positive for these students - 'bottom-up' education has never been proven to work, and they benefitted greatly with no significant gain for others. Regardless - public schools are being faced with a harsh reality: they are borderline anachronistic.

There's not enough money to go around, and very little draw for new or experienced teachers. What little money there is gets watered down by new, difficult realities for public schools, things like increasing sex ed and higher incidences of violence.

Why not subject schools to the 'marketplace'? Give every person the same amount of cash as you'd give the schools, and force the schools to privatize. If the schools can't survive, they can work for more money or improve to gather more students.

Does this really help rich families that much more than the current system? The current system is hugely slanted toward the wealthy - how could it get much worse?

Why pour money down the crapper? We have models of schools that work - what if these are private? How now?

[GeekyPenguin]

You guys really want to know what I think about school vouchers? All in favor but only if they're paying for Catholic or Jewish schools. That's it. Kids can get Protestant crap shoved down their throats at PS 121, so all Catholic and Jewish children should be able to attend a school where they are taught their ideals.

Oh boy oh boy I can't wait for the flames.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Kids can get Protestant crap shoved down their throats at PS 121, so all Catholic and Jewish children should be able to attend a school where they are taught their ideals.

I had Protestant crap shoved down my throat at my 160-person public school.

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
You guys really want to know what I think about school vouchers? All in favor but only if they're paying for Catholic or Jewish schools. That's it. Kids can get Protestant crap shoved down their throats at PS 121, so all Catholic and Jewish children should be able to attend a school where they are taught their ideals.

Oh boy oh boy I can't wait for the flames.

That's funny, I teach World History and everything we teach about Christianity from a historical perspective is Catholicism. There's the short little section on the "heretics" of the Protestant Reformation, but everything else is Catholic. So you're saying Catholics and Jews should get funding to go to their own schools and learn their ideals but not Protestant children? Oh that's a good idea.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by ADPiZXalum
That's funny, I teach World History and everything we teach about Christianity from a historical perspective is Catholicism. There's the short little section on the "heretics" of the Protestant Reformation, but everything else is Catholic. So you're saying Catholics and Jews should get funding to go to their own schools and learn their ideals but not Protestant children? Oh that's a good idea.

Maybe if you had learned some American history you would have learned that the entire purpose of the American public school system was to propagate Protestant ideals.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/publicschool...ry/photo2.html

There's a link from PBS.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Maybe if you had learned some American history you would have learned that the entire purpose of the American public school system was to propagate Protestant ideals.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/publicschool...ry/photo2.html

There's a link from PBS.

so let's privatize it.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by KSig RC
so let's privatize it.

Personally, it wouldn't bother ME, since I'm out of school and I'll be able to afford sending any of my potential its to a Catholic grade school, which is where they'd be going anyway. I've just seen too much corruption with the Milwaukee voucher schools to think that it can work properly everywhere.

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Maybe if you had learned some American history you would have learned that the entire purpose of the American public school system was to propagate Protestant ideals.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/publicschool...ry/photo2.html

There's a link from PBS.

Yea ok, I don't know anything about American history.................whatever..................
If the entire purpose was to propgate Protestant ideals, why change it now?

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by ADPiZXalum
Yea ok, I don't know anything about American history.................whatever..................
If the entire purpose was to propgate Protestant ideals, why change it now?

Um, maybe because there are more people who practice more religions?

Maybe because the widespread discrimination towards Catholics and Jews in this country has simmered down--if only just a bit?

On an unrelated note, I thought Catholic grade schools were usually pretty reasonable. I know that Catholic schoolteachers get paid considerably less than their public school counterparts, and even those at non-religious independent schools.

[33girl]

OK, since we got on a tangent:

Do you agree with people sending their children to Catholic (or Jewish or Muslim or any religion, for that matter) schools simply because they feel the discipline etc is better, and not because they believe in any of the tenets of the faith - and in fact, might be completely against it?

I mean, I can kind of understand where they're coming from, but if I didn't agree with or practice a faith I wouldn't want to give that much money to it, and if I WAS of that faith I wouldn't want the religious study that my child is supposed to be receiving interfered with or watered down because there are more non-Catholics there than Catholics.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Um, maybe because there are more people who practice more religions?

Maybe because the widespread discrimination towards Catholics and Jews in this country has simmered down--if only just a bit?

On an unrelated note, I thought Catholic grade schools were usually pretty reasonable. I know that Catholic schoolteachers get paid considerably less than their public school counterparts, and even those at non-religious independent schools.

Catholic Schools in New York City set their own tuition and fees which depends on how involved parents are. In Queens the annual grammar school tuition ranges from $3,000 to $5,000 plus various fees, a weekly contribution to the parish, and the price of a uniform. In Manhattan the grammar school tuition is higher $4,000 to $10,000. Catholic high schools range from about $4,000 to over $20,000 for the private Catholic schools. My friends pay about $900 per month for their h.s. students. Many schools have sliding scales for families with two children or more.

Private schools in NYC range from about $8,000 to over $25,000 per year per student for all grades including kindergarten. Catholic school is reasonable compared to private school, but it can still be a struggle especially if you have two or more children.

33girl, My mother sent my sisters and me to Catholic grammar school because it was better and safer than my local public school. She had attended Catholic schools as well. Interestingly, in New York City about 1/4 of students at Catholic schools are not Catholic. They opt out of religious classes.