Has KS replaced PiKA as "most successful"???

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by BobbyTheDon
so we had an off year.... meh.

My point is that these numbers don't really say much. Pike is just as honorable of a fraternity now, as it was last year. You didn't have an off year. The experience that Pike offers its members is just as meaningful today as it was last year, maybe even more so.

What is significant for Phi Psi is not how we rank, but that we are acheiving a goal. We set out to improve our recruitment and retention rates. Our average chapter size has increased every year for the last 9 years. The last NIC stats had us at an average chapter size of 46. As of this past June, we were at 49.

Is Phi Psi "better" than Pike, or other fraternities at recruitment and retention? To determine that you would have to look at the schools where we have chapters. Phi Psi is at a lot of schools that are very competitive, and with higher than normal chapter sizes. Maybe we are better, maybe we're not. Maybe the best fraternity at recruitment and retention, if you weigh its host institutions, is one that hasn't even been mentioned in this thread.

Recruitment methods are an area of fraternity operations that are shared between fraternities at the staff level. What any fraternity acheives in recruitment comes from a shared base of knowledge. We are all indebted to each other for our acheivements and progress.

Unfortunately the title of this thread does not facilitate any type of interfraternalism. It just encourages a pissing contest. I hope that the initial poster thinks before he starts another thread, but I doubt it.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by phikappapsiman
Way to go Brother Russ!!! I knew that I joined the right group way back when!

Amici...Usque...Adaras...

Steve...

California Beta, '83

Thanks Steve. Were you in San Diego a few months back? I roomed with Soc.

[phikappapsiman]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Thanks Steve. Were you in San Diego a few months back? I roomed with Soc.

No I wasn't there...that's right, both you and Socrates live in New York. How was it??? Let him know when you see him that I still go to games with Harry Johnson and we also see Rico Hernandez at the games as well. Hopefully he'll be back for Homecoming or Big Game against Cal!

[kddani]

I guess this is the GC Pissing Contest of the month......

remember boys, bigger isn't always better. It's how you use it

[Rudey]

Two thoughts:

1) This thread shouldn't have said anything about how one fraternity was better than another. So awful choice of wording for the topic.

2) Some of you are petty as heck.

-Rudey

[kddani]

Originally posted by Rudey
Two thoughts:

1) This thread shouldn't have said anything about how one fraternity was better than another. So awful choice of wording for the topic.

2) Some of you are petty as heck.

-Rudey

Exactly.

While you're so busy fighting over who's bigger/better/badder you're all doing a great disservice to your particular GLOs by all this petty bickering. Way to represent

[Kevin]

Originally posted by kddani
Exactly.

While you're so busy fighting over who's bigger/better/badder you're all doing a great disservice to your particular GLOs by all this petty bickering. Way to represent

It matters a little in some respects. But IMHO, not nearly as much as how successful your chapter is or how successful your organization is in your area.

Sigma Nu only has 3 chapters in my state currently. One is dormant. However, those 4 have accounted for over 5000 initiates. I'd say that's successful.

Or how about my chapter that recruited 28 men to its pledge class with only 23 initiated members? Is that success?

There are a lot of things that can be called success. National success is only a small part of it. Of course, what matters the most is how successful your organization is at giving you, personally a good experience. If it succeeds, that is all the success you can ask for.

[PhiPsiRuss]

I hope that the pissing contest is over, but FEA stats does have Pike with the largest average chapter size (53.)

[KSigkid]

Honestly, if you're happy with your fraternity, then who cares about numbers. I'm proud that we're doing well, but this thread should not have turned into a "We're bigger, so you suck" type thing.

If you don't think numbers mean anything, fine. If you think they do, fine. But there is NO reason that anyone in this thread should be putting down another person's fraternity.

I'll agree, the title thread wasn't what it should have been. But, we should be matrue enough to work around it.

[hoosier]

I hope the readers of this thread will ask some questions of their national leaders.

We all go to the Natl. convention, and we read the GLO magazines, and each tells the taxpayers (the undergrads) "we're the best", we have the most/best houses, the most/best housing/foundation/endowment funds, the best leadership programs, our sweethearts are the greatest, etc.

Never - or in the most rare cases - is any problem mentioned, except as something that "our excellent staff and natl. board solved immediately", or maybe something that can be used as a fund raiser.

I urge you to ask and double check - be a responsible member. Take a look at other GLO magazines (your campus GLO advisor/supervisor gets them, and maybe the library), and see what they are saying.

The national leaders are going to tell you about the new colonies/chapters, but you need to ask "how many died, how many are suspended, how many are probably not going to participate in fall rush?"

If the FEA collects data and surveys from many GLOs, let's publish it.

Since Wilson Heller died, there is no independent source for GLO news. He's missed.

[33girl]

hoosier,

Excellent post and very true.

My sorority (IMO) has become much more forthcoming about admitting problems that may exist, while still being proud of what's been accomplished. It's easier to be all rah-rah but if it doesn't jibe with what the members see daily, they'll lose any trust they had in the national organization. People want honesty.

[DeltAlum]

How many times have we seen this kind of thread turn into a "My (fill in the blank) is bigger than yours," contest?

I think maybe we shoud just delete them whenever they come up.

The Fraternity experience is one that is very personal to each of us.

Delt is not the biggest or the smallest. Some things we do exceptionally well and some we could use some help on. In many things we are and have been leaders in the fraternal world, and we follow on others.

The important thing is to constantly strive for excellence -- something which may never be totally achieved, but is always a worthy goal.

[Erik P Conard]

Maybe we oughta level the playing field, perhaps quit the well-
coined "pissing contest."
There is no doubt about the recent successes of Kappa Sig and
Pike. Sig Ep not shabby, Sig Tau coming on and a few others...
They are models we might emulate, seriously, give 'em their due.
TKE has been mentioned a few times...let me fill you in a bit. I've
been on the extension committee for TKE about 40 years.
We need to consider the type of school entered, their size of the
chapters (25 average vs 100 average), the age of the system,
and several other factors. And while our pal Wilson Heller is gone,
the NIC does a fair job of reporting, but does not consider many
things in their bare bones issuing of fraternity statistics.
TKE had 5 chapters in 1915 and only 2 during WW II. We got our
100th charter in '52. Overwhelmingly the pioneer in expanding,
and not through mergers. BUT considerable risk is taken when
one enters Southern Oregon versus Willamette, for example,
one established, the other new. And in pioneering, if you are not
joined...soon...the chapter will likely die. Examples of dead or
near-dead Greek schools: Sul Ross, College of Santa Fe, Huron,
Bethel, Wm. Penn, Miami-Dade, Mesa, North Adams, Northrup,
Broward, NM Highlands, U Corpus, Salem-Teikyo, Northland, So.
Oregon, Valley City, Minot, Dickinson State, Lakeland, Black Hills
Beta, Pike, SAE, Sig, Phi Delt, Delt, Kappa Sig...et al., rarely are
the pioneer, gamble little, very discretionary...not a criticism, but
certainly a consideration in terms of success and future.
TKE had only five chapters which were at closed institutions. But
colonies, locals, interest groups...many, and some were at the
"Parsons-type"
TKE plans to charter/re-charter 15 in '04-'05 and we have about
27 recognized colonies and almost 50 in process of revival, varied
stages. Active chapters, about 260.
We have about 280,000 initiates, and only about 30,000 dead.
Living initiates vs total initiates is a significant factor. Endowment
amounts closely parallel type of school. Cleveland State is not
going to offer the same support that a DePauw will, dollar-wise
Everybody, these days, is playing musical chairs, i.e., losing a chapter, due to many things. The state of Colorado must have
at least thirty currently dormant chapters, and about five are
coming back, with a dozen on the approved list to return. And, a
chapter without an adviser or active board is destined to fail.
Housemothers may return, especially if it might cut the costs of
risk management. Manners & clean houses might even resume.

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
Examples of dead or
near-dead Greek schools: Sul Ross, College of Santa Fe, Huron,
Bethel, Wm. Penn, Miami-Dade, Mesa, North Adams, Northrup,
Broward, NM Highlands, U Corpus, Salem-Teikyo, Northland, So.
Oregon, Valley City, Minot, Dickinson State, Lakeland, Black Hills
Beta, Pike, SAE, Sig, Phi Delt, Delt, Kappa Sig...et al., rarely are
the pioneer, gamble little, very discretionary...not a criticism, but
certainly a consideration in terms of success and future.

Gotta pick a bone with ya Erik on the U corpus thing. If you're refering to a campus in Texas, there is no U Corpus. There is Texas A&M Corpus Christi, and it has a rocking greek life. As a matter of fact, it's 'the hot new campus' to be at right now. They allowed greeks on campus about 10 years ago or so and have 3 NPC groups and 3 or 4 NIC groups. The Alumni Association that I am a part of in San Antonio is urging our HQ to consider placing a colony there. The campus has an enrollment of 8,249 students and thats a 4.5% increase from the same period last year. Most educational institutions in south Texas are growing at an alarming rate, due to numerous factors including UT and A&M being 'maxed out' in terms of enrollment, increased funding from the state legislature to increase educational opportunities in the area, an ever increasing general population, an increased desire on the part of residents in the area to seek higher education, and the university improving its educational offerings. (See enrollment figures at http://kanga.tamucc.edu/publicaffair...nrollment.html ).

So I dont know where youre getting your info from, but the part about U Corpus is just plain wrong. Kinda makes me wonder what else from your info is wrong.

BTW: From your list mentioned, Phi Delt is there. Beta is there. Sig Ep is there too.

[Erik P Conard]

TKE chartered U of Corpus Christi in 1969. The school at a later
time declared it would become a junior-senior institution. The
greeks died there. I am not sure what ever become of this one.
I have always been conscientious about my reporting, but there
is always a chance that even our sources are awry. We do the
best we can...don't we?