Religion/denominations - what made you walk away?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Isn't it a little more complicated than that? There are others whose beliefs about what happens in Commnunion are much like Catholicism's -- Anglicans, particularly Anglo-Catholics particularly come to mind, as well as the Orthodox. Lutheran and Presbyterian/Reformed beliefs are, in some ways, closer to the Catholic view than to other Protestant views.

The way it was always explained to me is that the Eucharist is a sacrament of, among other things, unity. To a Catholic, that specifically means unity in the Church -- being in union not only in belief but in union with a bishop who is in turn in union with the bishop of Rome. To take Communion in a Catholic church when one is not a Catholic implies a unity that does not exist.

The classical difference between the Catholic Church and most Protestant churches in this regard is that the Catholic Church would insist on unity (as described above) before communion, which would then be a sign of the unity that has been achieved. Meanwhile, most Protestant (mainline, at least) churches would insist only on the unity brought about by baptism, maintaining that taking communing together would lead to unity in other areas.

'Course there's always the renegade. Ms. MysticCat and I were taken quite by surprise once when we were invited to a neighbor's son's First Communion at a local Catholic church. The parents told us to be sure to go up for communion with them, which seemed odd, since they knew we weren't Catholics. But right after that, during announcements before the Mass began, Protestants were specifically invited to take Communion. We've been to that church other times for special services (such as funerals) as well as regular Masses, and always that invitation has been made. Friends who are parishioners there told us once that the bishop had told them quite a few times to stop it, but since the priests were Fransicans not directly under the bishops authority, they just kept saying "we'll think about it."

It's that, plus it's the transubstantion issue to an extent - not all of the faiths view it as communing with Jesus. I'm really really terrible at explaining this, and I've tried on GC before.

I think my biggest issue is that Protestants simply don't have the same belief structure we do - while we may agree on many many things, ultimately, we think there are two different ways to get to Heaven, and that's a pretty big difference.

Then again, according to several US Bishops, I shouldn't be taking Communion either.

[ISUKappa]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

During communion, Catholics believe in transubstantiation meaning there is a *moment* in which the physical bread and wine turn into the body and blood, while keeping the physical characteristics of the former.

LCMS Lutherans believe that the true body and blood is in and with the bread and wine, always. There is no magical moment of change; the bread and wine are not just symbols of the body and blood, they are both things (bread/body wine/blood), always.

Some other denominations believe communion is symbolic in form and meaning, the bread and wine are only reminders.

And (again, correct me if I'm wrong) Catholics believe that not only the faith in Christ's death and resurrection but good works are also required to be saved; that the doctrine of the Catholic Church can be decided on by pope, the church and various traditions within the church along with scripture; and the submission to the authority of the pope to be a "true" member. (I found this info on the lcms.org website)

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by kafromTN
I'm Catholic in the South and haven't "walked away" per se from the church, but I don't go nearly as much as I should.

I keep reading about how all the other Catholics have had terrible priests & experiences but I guess I have been lucky not to have experienced that stuff. The only problems I have had are with the type of people who go to my church, but it's not so bad I would stop going. I guess that is one of the good things about being a Catholic in the South, you have to have good priests since Catholicism isn't huge down here.


Just my $.0135694 worth,
Mark

Mark I have had a similar experience as you. My parents baptized my brother and I Catholic but didn't force us to attend church afterwards. They both had rather strict religious upbringings and in a sense, walked away a bit. My mom still receives communion if we do go to church but my dad just sits back. The rest of my extended family is Catholic but beliefs aren't thrown on us because we don't go to church on Sundays. My grandma wants her grandchildren to all be married in the Catholic church (even though my older cousin and I have said we don't really want to be) but I'm not told I'm going to Hell every time I say something against Catholic belief.

And I guess that's why I didn't like traditional Catholic churches. I felt guilty for being there. Luckily, my Catholic high school teachers weren't too archaic. They had their beliefs but at least they let us ask questions. And some professors even questioned our OWN faith. It was an interesting experience.

I didn't attend masses during college. I went to something called "Celebration" once in a while. Basically it was a church that played out like a Christian Rock show. We sang worship songs for about an hour. No communion, no homily... just singing. And people got really into it.

These days I find myself at the Catholic Newman Center. It's not a church... more like a rec hall. But there is a traditional alter and decor. I like it there because it still follows tradition but with a couple additions. Last night at the student mass, we meditated instead of the priest giving a normal homily. But the community is strong and partly around my age. I wonder why I didn't go to this place before. And I feel welcome and questions seem welcome. So I found my place.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
Correct me if I'm wrong:

During communion, Catholics believe in transubstantiation meaning there is a *moment* in which the physical bread and wine turn into the body and blood, while keeping the physical characteristics of the former.

LCMS Lutherans believe that the true body and blood is in and with the bread and wine, always. There is no magical moment of change; the bread and wine are not just symbols of the body and blood, they are both things (bread/body wine/blood), always.

Some other denominations believe communion is symbolic in form and meaning, the bread and wine are only reminders.

As a general proposition, more or less right, with some omissions.

Catholics believe in transubstantiation as you have described. It should be noted, though, that "transubstantiation" should be distinguished from belief in the "Real Presence." "Real Presence" is the doctrine that the Body and Blood of Christ are "really present" in the Sacrament. "Transubstantiation is one way of describing the specifics of the Real Presence, and is the way taught by the Catholic Church. The "moment" would be when the priest says: "This is my Body.... This is my Blood."

Eastern Orthodox also believe in the Real Presence by saying that the bread and wine truly become the Body and Blood of Christ, but don't try to define it any further, believing that it is a mystery that cannot be explained or described. They also would reject the idea that it happens at a specific moment, saying rather it occurs during the fairly long Eucharistic Prayer in the Divine Liturgy.

All Lutheran churches, not just LCMS, would ascribe to the Real Presence by teaching that the Body and Blood are, at least during the celebration of the Sacrament if not always, present "in, with and under" the bread and wine.

Presbyterian and Reformed churches ascribe to the Real Presence by teaching that, while there is no physical change in the bread and wine, the Body and Blood of Christ are nevertheless joined in a spiritual manner (how is a mystery) so that in communing, the true Body and Blood are actually received as well as the bread and wine.

The other standard Protestant position would be, as you describe, to consider the bread and wine as symbols, thus teaching no belief in the Real Presence.

And (again, correct me if I'm wrong) Catholics believe that not only the faith in Christ's death and resurrection but good works are also required to be saved; that the doctrine of the Catholic Church can be decided on by pope, the church and various traditions within the church along with scripture; and the submission to the authority of the pope to be a "true" member. (I found this info on the lcms.org website)

I'm going to leave these to a Catholic, but I will say that as someone fairly familiar with Catholic teaching, these strike me as rather generalized oversimplifications or even distortions of Catholic teachings.


Thus endeth the lesson for the day.

[ISUKappa]

MysticCat

Thanks for the more thorough explanation! I didn't want to speak for the other Lutherans since I only know for sure what my Synod believes.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation which means "the bread and wine are actually transformed into the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, with only the appearances of bread and wine remaining." If you do not believe this, you should not receive Communion in a Catholic Church. It's not hypocrisy. It's doctrine. It's not like the priests are handing out snacks. It's the Body and Blood of Christ. I have attended weddings at Lutheran and Episcopalian Churches and would not consider receiving there because it is not my faith.

If you are really interested in who can receive Communion in a Catholic Church, here is a good website.

Roman Catholics also believe in faith and good works for salvation and the infallibility of the Pope.

To answer the question the thread poses, I never walked away from my faith. I didn't attend Mass for many years, but now I do. I have also been fortunate with having good priests.

[GeekyPenguin]

The Pope as a man is not infallible - the Pope as an office is. Papal infallibility when the Pope makes a statement "from the chair" -- this has only happened 2-3 times. Ever.

And (again, correct me if I'm wrong) Catholics believe that not only the faith in Christ's death and resurrection but good works are also required to be saved; that the doctrine of the Catholic Church can be decided on by pope, the church and various traditions within the church along with scripture; and the submission to the authority of the pope to be a "true" member. (I found this info on the lcms.org website)

I'm not Catholic but I went to Catholic high school and I asked a priest what was required to get into heaven and he said it was by faith and works. I wasn't asking for my own personal benefit since I believe something else, I was just curious what they believed. Not all Protestant churches go against this though. Many still believe in works for salvation. As I've said before, I go to an independant Baptist church and the main idea there is that salvation is through faith only in Christ. Nothing can be done to earn it, because he already paid for it. Anyway, I'm not trying to covert the masses here, just tell you what we believe. I know there are many different views.

[_Q_]

I think that there are some very positive things about the Catholic Church, but other things disturbed me. For example, the sexual abuse scandal wasn't just a matter of a few disturbed priests. The church leadership sometimes ignored and covered it up. Then when that became no longer an option, there was a move to scapegoat homosexual priests, which didn't seem fair either. Some of my friends are gay, and it's bothered me that the Church seems to lack compassion for homosexuals. I'm also unimpressed by the stance on birth control. Cardinal Trujillo's comments about how condoms didn't reduce the spread of AIDS were especially appalling, given that AIDS is a huge problem in sub-saharan Africa.

Oh yeah, and I find people like Fr. McCloskey to be pretty scary too, although you have to carefully read what he's saying: http://www.frmccloskey.com/

[MSKKG]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
I wasn't raised in any religion. We celebrate Christmas, but who doesn't?

The inordinate amount of suffering some peoples have received for millennia has basically sealed my belief that there is no benevolent Creator. Not to mention, woman has gotten a pretty ishtty deal in Christianity.

Evil and suffering are not of God. Once again, theological issues are so hard to discuss on the computer.

As an Orthodox Christian, my view of women in Christianity might be different from others. I've never had a "persecution complex" or felt like a woman was a second-class citizen since the role that women played in Christianity is always mentioned. Women were the 1st to see the empty tomb and tell the disciples; female saints are honored; and, most importantly, through a woman was salvation brought to the world.

Tom, just so you know, the Orthodox Church is "Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic."

[Dionysus]

I still believe in God and I still go to church and stuff, but lately Christianity has been turning me off! Why?

1. Many of the people who claim to be Christian. I know just as many fucked up people who claim to be Christian as those who aren't.
2. The view of men and women and their roles.
3. THE OVER-RELIANCE ON FAITH!
4. The belief that Jesus is the one and only way into heaven.

I'm really trying to gain my faith back, but it isn't working at all! It is so strange that everytime I go to bible study or something, the more I want to run away from the religion!

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by Dionysus
I'm really trying to gain my faith back, but it isn't working at all! It is so strange that everytime I go to bible study or something, the more I want to run away from the religion!

Have you ever thought of trying a different religion? I don't know if everybody "shops" for religion like I do, but when I still believed in God, I got into Baha'i because it made more sense to me and I just don't really get Christianity even though I was raised protestant.

[FSUZeta]

i was raised a southern baptist, but never was baptized because i did not like the church my family attended, i did not hold with their beliefs and did not want to be the hypocrite that my friends who attended the church were. in college i visited mainly methodist and presbyterian churches and found them to be somewhat compatible with my beliefs. i was baptized in the presbyterian church.; so were my two children. my husband and i felt that we needed a change and we visited and then joined the unitarian church. we were members of the largest unitarian church in america, all souls, in tulsa, oklahoma, the bible belt. all souls had a new england look to it and was very traditional. when we moved back to florida, we visited the local unitarian church several times, but this church was waaaay liberal and for a while we were unchurched. we are now back to the presbyterian church. is it perfect? no, but i don't think that there is a perfect fit out there.

[AchtungBaby80]

What turned me off? Being told I was going to Hell because my religious views are a little more...liberal than some peoples'.

[ADPiShannan]

Man look at all the catholics.

I too left the Catholic religion. I went to a private catholic school all my life till college. We had to go to church in school and every sunday or satan would come take your soul, or so my parents made me believe that.

I left because well I was so tired of the same. My husband went to Methodist church and when I went their when I was a senior in HS I just was like wow this is so different. They didnt say the same thing at every mass. I could literally recite what the priest would say the whole mass with the exception of the homily and reading.

I didnt like the fact all through school, grade and high school, they made it seem like everyone else would be going to hell for not being Catholic and every little thing was a sin.

When I came to college I realized I believed in God but I really didnt believe in all the strictness of the Catholic church. I was tired of how they thought they were the only ones and how they were better than everyone, so I left it.

I cant say Ive found a new religion to follow. We moved to the Cleveland area and havent tried out any churches or anything. Like I said before, I believe in God and I do my own thing. Just cause I dont go to church, I dont think Ill be going to hell for that. I pray and everything. I just havent found that spark or whatever. When I find it, then Ill pick that place to call my religion. Right now to me it seems like each religion thinks they are the right ones and I really think none of them are better, but all the same.