Weigh In: Senate Passes Ban on Late Term Abortion

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by MereMere21
I know they have been sterilizing women in China for decades to help curb their population issue. I wonder why human rights activists haven't been more prevelent there? or maybe they are and the news here is too enfatuated with Kobi Bryant to cover it.

I think it's one of those "American politics" things. We whine about the injustices of human rights violations but only when they're in countries that aren't in a position to help us financially. There are probably human rights activists involved in this but there's only so much they can do, especially when the media isn't covering it.

A lot of the sterilization both in Puerto Rico and here in America took place with women who couldn't speak English. Doctors would hand them forms to sign while they were in LABOR, telling them that the forms had something to do with their current pregnancy and that they had to sign them or else leave the hospital. They couldn't read the papers because they didn't know English, so they just signed them. In reality they had just signed a statement saying that it was okay to sterilize them, and the procedure generally took place immediately after their child was born.

There are some really sick stories and the numbers of sterilized women are higher than you'd expect, although I can't remember the percentage offhand.

[MereMere21]

I've heard some of the horror stories from the U.S. but mainly the ones that happened in mental institutions at the turn of the century. I'm not familar with it going on in Puerto Rico - learn something new everyday!

[Eclipse]

I consider myself prolife. I can't really speak on the specifics of the bill because I haven't read it, but on the surface, I agree with it. TO answer your questions....

Originally posted by MereMere21

~There is a triple screen blood test done between 15 and 19 weeks that tests for birth defects such as down's sydrome. It is a positive/negative test and if there is a postive reading, then an amniocentisis is done to find out the exact defect. Lets say you find out after an amnio that your baby has down's syndrome. You and your spouse already have 3 children and were planning on closing up shop when this pregnancy popped up. You are finacially strapped and feel you could not care for a down's baby adequately. Would you continue the pregnancy?

Yes I would. Why are down syndrome children undesirable or less than? I hate people using their 1 personal example as a reason for why something should be universally applied, but here I go! My favorite uncle (RIP Uncle Richard!) had down's. If most people in this world were half as kind, giving and industrious as my Uncle Richard this world would be a better place. He taught me more about life that you can imagine. That being said, there are all kinds of programs that will assist "financial strapped" people with children with disabilities.

Originally posted by MereMere21

~You find out at your 5th month (18-22 week) ultrasound that your baby's brain has not developed at all and the child you are carrying will be stillborn. Would you continue the pregnancy?

Again, yes I would. I don't know what blessing I, or someone else will receive because of this child's life--no matter how short. I also don't know if this information is true. There have been cases where doctors have detected some abnormality only to find out upon birth that the test results were wrong.

I can imagine that it is easy for any woman to loose a child--aborted or still born. You grieve no matter what.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by Eclipse

Yes I would. Why are down syndrome children undesirable or less than? I hate people using their 1 personal example as a reason for why something should be universally applied, but here I go! My favorite uncle (RIP Uncle Richard!) had down's. If most people in this world were half as kind, giving and industrious as my Uncle Richard this world would be a better place. He taught me more about life that you can imagine. That being said, there are all kinds of programs that will assist "financial strapped" people with children with disabilities.

I don't think anybody is saying that people with down's syndrome or other major issues are automatically less desirable -- but there are definitely some people who are, for whatever reason, not ready to deal with the pressures of caring for a child who is mentally handicapped or deformed or has major diseases. It's great that there are people out there who can care for them, but I don't think people should be forced to try and deal with an issue that they don't think they can deal with.

[MereMere21]

I'm not saying a down's sydrome child is any less of a child at all. I just cited a real world example. Personally being 5 months pregnant, if I were to find out this baby has down's syndrome, I would keep it - but only because my husband and I are finacially stable and feel we could handle it. I'm sure your grandparents can attest to the fact that raising a handicapped child takes a great deal of patience and money.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
It's great that there are people out there who can care for them, but I don't think people should be forced to try and deal with an issue that they don't think they can deal with.

Why do you say forced? I think when you decide to have a child you decide to take the good with the bad. That includes having a child that is less than a sports star, not so good in math or heaven forbid, some one who has a mental or physical impairment.

[MereMere21]

Originally posted by Eclipse
Why do you say forced? I think when you decide to have a child you decide to take the good with the bad. That includes having a child that is less than a sports star, not so good in math or heaven forbid, some one who has a mental or physical impairment.

yes in a perfect world, then every expectant parent would welcome their child into the world even if heaven forbid, he or she had a mental or physical impairment.

The problem though is that this is no where near a perfect world and not every expectant parent looks at a child as a gift. Some look at it as a great burden, a curse, etc.....

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by MereMere21
I'm sure your grandparents can attest to the fact that raising a handicapped child takes a great deal of patience and money.

My grandparents were illiterate so they did the unconventional thing and treated my uncle like their other children. Only difference is that he did things a little latter than my other uncles and aunts and did not go to school until the special school in their small Georgia town would accept Black children as well. I think he was about 15 at the time. As far as money goes, they never had much so he didn't cost them any more money than the other children. In case you are wondering, my uncle was considered severely mentally handicap. He probably had the IQ of a 5 year old, but he could take care of his personal hygiene, tie his shoes (I taught him! He was in his late teens and I was about 8 )write his name, and remember things that happened better than most people. He loved the Lord and could cuss like a sailor, but he always said he was sorry (to you and the Lord) after he cussed you out! LOL I am sure that if today's medicine was available in 1954 when he was born doctors would have looked at my 40 something year old grandmother who could not read or write, her sharecropper husband who couldn't either, and their 7 other children living in a shack with no running water and said that they should abort him. As a matter of fact, lots of well meaning folks in their small town suggested that they send him to a group home because they said he would be too much of a burden. He wasn't however a burden, but a blessing. I know my grandmother got tired and she worried about him more than her other children, but I don't think she would have done things differently if she could have.

I think people sell themselves short when they say I couldn't handle so and so. You never know what you can do until you try and while I know that everyone on this board is not Christian, I believe that God gives you grace and mercy sufficient to handle whatever storm he places you in.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by MereMere21
yes in a perfect world, then every expectant parent would welcome their child into the world even if heaven forbid, he or she had a mental or physical impairment.

The problem though is that this is no where near a perfect world and not every expectant parent looks at a child as a gift. Some look at it as a great burden, a curse, etc.....

This is probably going to sound harsh, but if in a less than perfect world, you (univeral you) cannot accept a less than perfect child, then maybe you (again universal) rethink your decision to parent. Every child is going to disappoint their parent in some way at some time. You just don't decide to kill your child because they are less than perfect or a burden or a curse. What about the child that becomes handicap after they are born? Are you released of responsbility because it becomes to hard? How do you make that decision?

[bethany1982]

Originally posted by Eclipse
This is probably going to sound harsh, but if in a less than perfect world, you (univeral you) cannot accept a less than perfect child, then maybe you (again universal) rethink your decision to parent. Every child is going to disappoint their parent in some way at some time. You just don't decide to kill your child because they are less than perfect or a burden or a curse. What about the child that becomes handicap after they are born? Are you released of responsbility because it becomes to hard? How do you make that decision?

Great post.

[MereMere21]

Originally posted by Eclipse
This is probably going to sound harsh, but if in a less than perfect world, you (univeral you) cannot accept a less than perfect child, then maybe you (again universal) rethink your decision to parent. Every child is going to disappoint their parent in some way at some time. You just don't decide to kill your child because they are less than perfect or a burden or a curse. What about the child that becomes handicap after they are born? Are you released of responsbility because it becomes to hard? How do you make that decision?

ok, then why are you against abortion? some people know they don't want to parent and thats why they abort. You could say then don't have sex, but thats another issue entirely.

Like I said, not everyone sees a child as a blessing. If they knew what I knew though, if they had that feeling I get when my son grasps my finger with his hand or smiles at me, then they wouldn't throw that away.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by Eclipse
This is probably going to sound harsh, but if in a less than perfect world, you (univeral you) cannot accept a less than perfect child, then maybe you (again universal) rethink your decision to parent. Every child is going to disappoint their parent in some way at some time. You just don't decide to kill your child because they are less than perfect or a burden or a curse. What about the child that becomes handicap after they are born? Are you released of responsbility because it becomes to hard? How do you make that decision?

If you are so adamant about this decision that some people feel they need to make then maybe you should start adopting these special children yourself. IMO talk is cheap. Pro-lifers (in general, not all)want all children to be born but how many actually adopt those that are not wanted? Anyone have statitistics?

I am sick of Republicans saying one thing: we want less govertment control-yet they do the opposite and try to control our lives by telling us that we have to have a child if we become pregnant or we can't end our own lives. If I want an abortion whether early term or late term that is my business not anyone elses so keep out of my business. If you are against abortion-great all power to you, have as many children as you want (as long as you have the finances and well being to take care of them) but don't tell me I have to have a child if I do get pregnant and want to terminate the pregnancy. I won't interfere with your life so don't interfere with mine.

I was sickened this week when I saw on the news that Jeb Bush made them replace the feeding tube in the brain injured woman-I know this is another topic but I am tired of the government making decisions for families. If I want to die that is my business not the governments. If my mother is terminally ill or feels she has no quality of life and wants to die that is my family's business. IMO life is about quality NOT quantity. BTW I wonder who pays for this woman's care also-talk about a financial burden-and yes finances do come into play for some people. If the government wants to keep people alive that want to die then it should come out of their pockets and I don't mean the taxpaying citizens-I mean their actual bank account. I also find it sick that this poor woman has to starve to death in order to die a "peaceful" death-why can't we euthanize her-this is a peaceful death. I know some people don't agree-that is fine but again if it happens to my family that is my and my family's business not the governments and not yours.

[GeekyPenguin]

Co-signing on aggieAXOs post.

[bethany1982]

What's the procedure involved in this type of abortion? Why do they refer to it as a partial birth abortion??? I'm not a medical person and was just wondering.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by MereMere21
ok, then why are you against abortion? some people know they don't want to parent and thats why they abort. You could say then don't have sex, but thats another issue entirely.

I'm against abortion because I believe it kills an innocent person who had no say so in the matter, plain and simple. I understand and simpathize with people who have to make these types of agonizing choices. I thank God that I have never been in that situation. I also wish I could turn back the hands of time and take back my "advice" to my sister to have an abortion (she didn't). There is so much birth control out there today it is not even funny and unplanned pregnancies should be very rare. At one point in my life I was on the pill, using a spermicide and making my boyfriend, now husband wear a condom. I was NOT trying to get preggers! LOL