African American vs Black vs African American

[laidbackfella]

Originally posted by RACooper
I in no way commented on AKA_Monet's point - I simply commented on Original Ape's comments. As for why I commented now; well the thread showed up as a "new" posting... so I read the last couple of comments.

Yet, you've clearly quoted AKA_Monet's post.

Perhaps an edit is in order?

Originally posted by RACooper
issues of stupity or ignorance always are

That, I can understand.

Originally posted by RACooper
as are issues of racism or biggotry.

BIGOTRY

That, I can understand as well.

Do you ask for clarification before you enter your opinion or do you expect your vantage point to be accepted or acknowledged lock, stock and barrel by those you share it with?

[RACooper]

Originally posted by laidbackfella
Yet, you've clearly quoted AKA_Monet's post.

Perhaps an edit is in order?

I stand corrected... it seemed to be an argument that I have heard before - I apologize.

I will go back and edit the post - and note the changes.

Do you ask for clarification before you enter your opinion or do you expect your vantage point to be accepted or acknowledged lock, stock and barrel by those you share it with?

The statement seemed to be relatively straight forward to me... and not requiring clarification - in other arguements/debates I have asked/chellenged posters to clarify or further explain their post...

[laidbackfella]

Originally posted by RACooper


I stand corrected... it seemed to be an argument that I have heard before - I apologize.

I will go back and edit the post - and note the changes.



The statement seemed to be relatively straight forward to me... and not requiring clarification - in other arguements/debates I have asked/chellenged posters to clarify or further explain their post... [/B]

It's no problem.

Sometimes I agree with you on some points, on others I don't.

I just always like to understand where a person is coming from.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
I just don't understand why an old post from five years ago was dredged up.

To anyone wishing to revive an old thread. I think this is mentioned (somewhat) in the POW.


Topics can be revived, but please do the following if you do:

1. Check the date of the last post, or even the first post.
1A. The person you are quoting probably isn't a regular poster anymore.
1B. If the person continues to post regularly, he or she could be "through" with the topic, so you may not get a response from him/her. Therefore, post your take and move on...

2. (Again) If you decide to dredge it up, post your take on the topic and move on.

3. Realize that what someone posted 5 years ago probably isn't that person's stance 5 years later, then again, it might.

4. (For the 3rd time) Post your take and move on...

[Conskeeted7]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the premise of the previous post at all. I believe that Blacks should consider themselves Americans. Who we are as a culture is significantly impacted by the fact that we are Black in America. Without that, none of us would be who we are. Of course there have been limitations because of racism. However, I don't think it goes deep enough to say that we are not American. The very fact that we deal with racism as a group, know how to respond, relate to it and identify with each other because of it signifies that we are a culture within this country: Black Americans. I believe that if we start to believe that we are not part of the country and we focus our energy on exclusion, we will never get anywhere as a people living within this country. Of course there is a great benefit to researching our history and knowing the great legacies that we come from. I think that can be done while acknowledging that we are American as well.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Conskeeted7

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the premise of the previous post at all. I believe that Blacks should consider themselves Americans. Who we are as a culture is significantly impacted by the fact that we are Black in America. Without that, none of us would be who we are. Of course there have been limitations because of racism. However, I don't think it goes deep enough to say that we are not American. The very fact that we deal with racism as a group, know how to respond, relate to it and identify with each other because of it signifies that we are a culture within this country: Black Americans. I believe that if we start to believe that we are not part of the country and we focus our energy on exclusion, we will never get anywhere as a people living within this country. Of course there is a great benefit to researching our history and knowing the great legacies that we come from. I think that can be done while acknowledging that we are American as well.

without being too wordy, i agree. if i was referred to as "African-American," i wouldnt mind, but i prefer "Black." i mean, i didnt choose or create either title, but I (along with my black peers, ancestors and future generations) do have a part in choosing and creating what being Black means in America. never mind that sometimes i may not like or agree with what exactly being Black is or has come to mean, but it's my culture to call mine.

sure we all have African roots, but my experience has more to do with being American than being African. that DOESN'T mean that i dont identify at all with African ancestry, but being that 1. ive never been to Africa, 2. don't know any Africans from Africa (well personally, as in ones i associate with) 3. have lived my whole life in the American/black experience, i think its a misnomer to say otherwise.

and when we say "African-American," surely that doesnt encompass each of the 54 nations that comprise the great continent. no one ive ever met from a North African country every identified with being "African" or "African-American," but by their nationality (Egyptian, Ethiopian). why would it be any more incorrect to say "hey, i'm black! and dare i say american?!"

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by tld221

without being too wordy, i agree. if i was referred to as "African-American," i wouldnt mind, but i prefer "Black." i mean, i didnt choose or create either title, but I (along with my black peers, ancestors and future generations) do have a part in choosing and creating what being Black means in America. never mind that sometimes i may not like or agree with what exactly being Black is or has come to mean, but it's my culture to call mine.

sure we all have African roots, but my experience has more to do with being American than being African. that DOESN'T mean that i dont identify at all with African ancestry, but being that 1. ive never been to Africa, 2. don't know any Africans from Africa (well personally, as in ones i associate with) 3. have lived my whole life in the American/black experience, i think its a misnomer to say otherwise.

and when we say "African-American," surely that doesnt encompass each of the 54 nations that comprise the great continent. no one ive ever met from a North African country every identified with being "African" or "African-American," but by their nationality (Egyptian, Ethiopian). why would it be any more incorrect to say "hey, i'm black! and dare i say american?!"

Funny you mention the Egyptian/Ethiopian thing. One of my classmates was born in Egypt and she does not identify as African or Black. In fact, if she had not informed me where she was from, I would not have known because she is lightly tanned NOT brown. Her last name (married) is Arabic so I would assume that she is Arab but she is not; her family is Coptic Christian.

Another reason why I disagree with the name African-American. The above demonstrates a situation where a person CLEARLY fits the definition of African-American but is not and has no reason to identify as such.

[Munchkin03]

Also, there are the people who don't come from Africa who consider themselves "Black" in terms of culture (ie, some Indians from Trinidad or Guyana).

Plus, aren't White South Africans who emigrate here technically "African-American"?

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Also, there are the people who don't come from Africa who consider themselves "Black" in terms of culture (ie, some Indians from Trinidad or Guyana).

Plus, aren't White South Africans who emigrate here technically "African-American"?

i think that's the argument used re: Charlize Theron a few posts back. and it lets the Academy boast another "African-American" win.

[rhoyaltempest]

Everyone is definitely entitled to call themselves whatever they choose to but I will never understand the problem that some African Americans have in calling themselves African American. I will never understand this to save my life. Anyone who is born or becomes a citizen in America can call themselves American but simply calling yourself American says nothing of your racial/ethnic roots and we all know that none of us (with the exception of Native Americans) can claim America as an ancestoral birthplace. It is true that many Americans (White, Black, Chinese, or otherwise) are fine with simply calling themselves American and if that's what you choose to do, then fine but the term African American was created (for us, by us) to instill in us pride for a place that we were abruptly and viciously removed from, encouraged not to remember, and made to feel ashamed of. The term is an ode (if you will) to our roots and a slap in the face (if you will) to all of those who have tried to deny us the memory of that place, our original birthplace. You don't have to physically step foot in a place or on certain soil to know that you belong there, to feel and understand that connection and everyone (of other ethnicities) seems to know that except for us. I can see and feel that connection every day when I look in the faces of Black people from every corner of the world and note how very similar our features are and when I interact with my husband (who's from Ghana) and note how very alike we are (culturally) even though we were raised in two very different places. And calling yourself "Black" is fine as long as you realize that all people of African descent can call themselves Black so the term is not specific to African Americans. As for calling ourselves African American, these days because there are Black people here in America from around the world, anyone who wants to call themselves African American can certainly do so but we all know that the name was coined especially for the descendants of those who were enslaved here for over 400 years to instill pride and to regain some of all that was lost. I don't know why people want to (all of a sudden) act like they don't remember how that name came about and who it was meant for initially. So the name is a tribute basically to two places that we embody. Don't think for a second that because you've never been to Africa that Africa isn't IN you, that all of the things that we do and say and all of our families' traditions are original, that all of America's traditions are original.

As for people from North Africa not calling themselves Black or African, that ignorant mess is on them. You don't have to buy it...I don't...because I know better. And for the record not all of them feel that way and all/most Africans identify with their country first; for example my husband will tell you that he is Ghanian but has no problem with saying that he is African. I have met Ethiopians, Kenyans, and Egyptians who will proudly tell you that they are African/Black (some light, some dark). Bottom line, call yourselves whatever you'd like but I am proud to pay tribute to my true birthplace, to a place that many around the world like to put down, and I don't have to ever physically go there to know and appreciate who and why I am.

We are not the same as other Americans. We are African Americans and that says a lot about a whole different time and history, one that we must never forget.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Also, there are the people who don't come from Africa who consider themselves "Black" in terms of culture (ie, some Indians from Trinidad or Guyana).

Plus, aren't White South Africans who emigrate here technically "African-American"?

They may say they don't come from Africa but it doesn't mean that they truly do not. You can find people of all different ethnicities that consider themselves descendants of Africa and those who do not. I had a Puerto Rican roomate in college (who had very light skin) that considered Africa the first motherland and Puerto Rico the second (that was the first time I ever heard a Puerto Rican say that). It's all about what people have been taught or learned for themselves. What you personally believe will depend on what you've learned or did not learn for yourself.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I can see and feel that connection every day when I look in the faces of Black people from every corner of the world and note how very similar our features are and when I interact with my husband (who's from Ghana) and note how very alike we are (culturally) even though we were raised in two very different places. And calling yourself "Black" is fine as long as you realize that all people of African descent can call themselves Black so the term is not specific to African Americans.

This is precisely why I prefer the term Black. It encompasses ALL of the Diaspora. We in America have to realize that we are NOT isolated. We DO have much in common with Blacks from around the world because our struggles are the same! To me, the term African American is too limiting and sets up an 'Us vs Them' adversarial relationship between peoples who should be working towards the same goal.

As for the American part, I would accept the term Black American because it acknowledges the connection to other Diasporans as Black but also the fact that I am an American with all the rights and priviledges thereof.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

This is precisely why I prefer the term Black. It encompasses ALL of the Diaspora. We in America have to realize that we are NOT isolated. We DO have much in common with Blacks from around the world because our struggles are the same! To me, the term African American is too limiting and sets up an 'Us vs Them' adversarial relationship between peoples who should be working towards the same goal.

As for the American part, I would accept the term Black American because it acknowledges the connection to other Diasporans as Black but also the fact that I am an American with all the rights and priviledges thereof.

To each his own I guess. I love having "African" in my title/name and that doesn't negate the fact that I'm Black just like my husband calling himself African or Ghanian doesn't negate the fact that he's Black. The same goes for the Jamaican, Haitian, etc. But I get your point.