SigEp brothers become ADPhis

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by exlurker
breathesgelatin -- I didn't think you were being rude in any way, and I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought that. If I did, I truly apologize.

Ooooh OK! I can be super-sensitive sometimes!
Really though, it is worth be sarcastic about the hazing here and the lack of restraint by ANY authority--IFC, University, etc.

Back to our regularly scheduled chat!

[madmax]

Originally posted by breathesgelatin
An article came out in the non-online school paper today.

The gist of it is that the NIC will hear SigEp's complaint against ADPhi this week. SigEp does not believe that it released the members of the Virginia Epsilon chapter.

If I can find the article online I will, but I don't want to retype the thing. Actually my little sis is the news editor of this paper and wrote the article... so maybe she could email it to me!

Why should they need a release in the first place?

If SigEp can expell the members at will then why can't members drop out at will?

SigEp International is coming off as a immature ex that dumps you. Then when the ex hears you are dating someone new, they want to get back together, but you tell them no. As you are trying to walk away the ex is holding onto your leg and being dragged down the street. The ex is shouting, "it's not over til I say it's over".

[PsychTau]

Originally posted by madmax
Why should they need a release in the first place?

If SigEp can expell the members at will then why can't members drop out at will?

It has to do with completing the proper paperwork...sure you can drop at will, but you can't just "disappear", either you or the chapter has to send paperwork into HQ as documentation. (At least that's how AST does it, and I'm sure every other GLO does something similar as well....)

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by madmax
Why should they need a release in the first place?

If SigEp can expell the members at will then why can't members drop out at will?

Because under NIC by-laws, Alpha Delta Phi cannot initiate the guys in question unless and until Si Ep's national headquarters confirms in writing that those guys are no longer members of Sigma Phi Epsilon. Alpha Delta Phi and the W&L Sig Ep's apparently maintain that the letters sent to all of the W&L Sig Ep's from Sig Ep headquarters satisfies the by-law; Sig Ep apparently is maintaining the opposite. If Sig Ep is right, then the Adelphians initiated the W&L guys in violation of the NIC by-laws.

[PsychTau]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
...Alpha Delta Phi and the W&L Sig Ep's apparently maintain that the letters sent to all of the W&L Sig Ep's from Sig Ep headquarters satisfies the by-law; Sig Ep apparently is maintaining the opposite. If Sig Ep is right, then the Adelphians initiated the W&L guys in violation of the NIC by-laws.

True...also, we don't know exactly what the letters said. They could have said "You are officially released from membership in SigEp" or they could have said "The W&L chapter is officially closed. Unless otherwise notified, each brother is granted alum status." Who knows what the actual wording is?

[madmax]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Because under NIC by-laws, Alpha Delta Phi cannot initiate the guys in question unless and until Si Ep's national headquarters confirms in writing that those guys are no longer members of Sigma Phi Epsilon. Alpha Delta Phi and the W&L Sig Ep's apparently maintain that the letters sent to all of the W&L Sig Ep's from Sig Ep headquarters satisfies the by-law; Sig Ep apparently is maintaining the opposite. If Sig Ep is right, then the Adelphians initiated the W&L guys in violation of the NIC by-laws.

MysticCat81
Senior Member

Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 532

quote:
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The two fraternities that left the NIC last year are Phi Delta Theta and Kappa Sigma. Over the years, quite a few well-known inter/national fraternities have left the NIC and rejoined later.

It has to be remembered that the NIC is quite different from the NPC. The NIC has little if any "governing" authority and has little ability to make binding policy for its members like the NPC does. Rather, it is mainly an advocacy and support organization for member fraternities. Policies like the one that prevents Joe Blow from being initiated by a second fraternity until Joe's first fraternity confirms that he is no longer a member exist not because the NIC has imposed it per se, but because the member fraternities have agreed to the policy as a condition of membership in the NIC.


__________________

Not quite. Like you said on your previous post the NIC has little if any authority.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by PsychTau
True...also, we don't know exactly what the letters said. They could have said "You are officially released from membership in SigEp" or they could have said "The W&L chapter is officially closed. Unless otherwise notified, each brother is granted alum status." Who knows what the actual wording is?

To my understanding, they were granted alum status. The brothers wanted to REJECT that offer of alum status, so they sent in letters to SigEp HQ explaining that. SigEp nationals has yet to acknowledge these letters.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by madmax
Not quite. Like you said on your previous post the NIC has little if any authority.

True, but...

To go the source, section 1.a of the NIC's by-laws states:

a) Fraternity Membership. To be eligible for membership in the Conference, a fraternity must:
...
(3) Be mutually exclusive of and in competition with other general fraternities, meaning that no member fraternity shall initiate a member of another fraternity until such time as the second fraternity shall have been formally notified in writing by the national office of the first fraternity that a candidate for membership in the second fraternity is no longer regarded as a member of the fraternity.

Pursuant to the NIC's constitution (Article X), violation of this provision could be grounds for sanctioning Alpha Delta Phi; sanctioning could (though not necessarily would) include expulsion from the NIC.

[sigep653]

Originally posted by madmax
Why should they need a release in the first place?

If SigEp can expell the members at will then why can't members drop out at will?

SigEp International is coming off as a immature ex that dumps you. Then when the ex hears you are dating someone new, they want to get back together, but you tell them no. As you are trying to walk away the ex is holding onto your leg and being dragged down the street. The ex is shouting, "it's not over til I say it's over".

I know everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not happywith this comparison of my national fraternity. I seriously doubt SigEp HQ would act petty or immature toward the W & L former SigEps or ADPhi. I would imagine that HQ's taking this position because of insurance and paperwork problems. It might possibly be a risk managment concern-since they didn't go alumni, they could possibly still be considered members of SPE. But, since they are still a functioning fraternity chapter (the guys are holding rush, etc.), HQ is concerned that they are now open to liability, since the guys could legally still be considered SigEps, (because the offer of alumni status was rejected) but SigEp HQ has no control over the chapter or any way to limit their liability, since the guys have "affiliated" with ADPhi.

In Phi,
SigEp653

[madmax]

Originally posted by sigep653
I know everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not happywith this comparison of my national fraternity. I seriously doubt SigEp HQ would act petty or immature toward the W & L former SigEps or ADPhi. I would imagine that HQ's taking this position because of insurance and paperwork problems. It might possibly be a risk managment concern-since they didn't go alumni, they could possibly still be considered members of SPE. But, since they are still a functioning fraternity chapter (the guys are holding rush, etc.), HQ is concerned that they are now open to liability, since the guys could legally still be considered SigEps, (because the offer of alumni status was rejected) but SigEp HQ has no control over the chapter or any way to limit their liability, since the guys have "affiliated" with ADPhi.

In Phi,
SigEp653

If SigEp is worried about insurance, risk management or whatever then all they have to do is stop making excuses and officially cut the ties and let the members go with ADPhi.
SigEp is acting petty. They don't want these guys but at the same time they are trying to prevent them from joining a different national fraternity. That is lame.

[sigep653]

Originally posted by ChaosDST
I think that statement sums up the issue that many folks have with this situation.

But, if they're no longer members of Sig Ep...especially if some of them MIGHT be pissed at Sig Ep...can folk be mad at them not remembering their oath?

Just playing CHAOS advocate, here.

Yeah, I can still be mad at them for breaking their oath. You can hate someone as much as you want, but this doesn't give you an excuse to break your word to them. The guys at W & L gave their word of honor to abide by the oath, and if they break it, they are without honor and not worthy of my trust or friendship as a fellow SigEp. When I gave my word of honor three years ago to abide by the oath, I gave my word to all of my SigEp brothers. they did the same. It would be an insult to all that SigEp holds dear for them to break their word.

In Phi,
Sigep653

[sigep653]

i don't agree with you madmax, but like I said, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I also don't think that everyone knows all the facts of the situation, or what exactly the reasoning SigEp HQ has for what they're doing. (I know I certaintly don't, I've just been guessing.) So, I guess we'll see what happens.

in Phi,
SigEp653

[madmax]

Originally posted by sigep653
i don't agree with you madmax, but like I said, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I also don't think that everyone knows all the facts of the situation, or what exactly the reasoning SigEp HQ has for what they're doing. (I know I certaintly don't, I've just been guessing.) So, I guess we'll see what happens.

in Phi,
SigEp653

OK. If you don't agree with me then do you agree with SPE's own policy on termination of membership? According you SPE's own policy, there are two ways to terminate membership:
A. Resignation
B. Expulsion.

The chapter has resigned in writing by all accounts. SPE HQ has even acknowledged the fact that the members resigned in writing.


The members should send a certified letter to SPE HQ and the NIC restating their resignation and a copy of SPE own policy on termination of membership and then go on their business as ADPhi.



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SIGMA PHI EPSILON FRATERNITY



POLICY ON TERMINATION OF MEMBERSHIP





There are two options for a brother who wishes to terminate his member_ship, and both must be handled through the chapter where he was initiated or the chapter where he has subsequently affiliated. The termination of membership cannot be handled by Sigma Phi Epsilon Headquarters until it has been considered by the member’s chapter.



RESIGNATION — A member who wishes to voluntarily terminate his membership in Sigma Phi Epsilon may resign by petitioning his chapter. His petition for resignation must be accepted by the chapter and forwarded to Sigma Phi Epsilon Headquarters with a resignation statement certifying that the member is not indebted to the Fraternity and is turning in his membership credentials. This resignation form must be accompanied by an extract of the chapter minutes wherein the resignation was accepted, along with the life membership card and membership certificate.



EXPULSION — A member may be expelled for being indebted to his chapter for a period of 60 days, by a majority vote of either the chapter or its alumni board.



A member may be expelled for reasons other than indebtedness only through a trial. Trial procedures are available from Sigma Phi Epsilon Headquarters.

[Rudey]

Is there an Alpha Delt on here? I believe their national office is looking to expand and is willing to take on the added risk because they don't have too many chapters.

-Rudey

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by madmax
RESIGNATION — A member who wishes to voluntarily terminate his membership in Sigma Phi Epsilon may resign by petitioning his chapter. His petition for resignation must be accepted by the chapter and forwarded to Sigma Phi Epsilon Headquarters with a resignation statement certifying that the member is not indebted to the Fraternity and is turning in his membership credentials. This resignation form must be accompanied by an extract of the chapter minutes wherein the resignation was accepted, along with the life membership card and membership certificate.

There goes the problem, according to the policy, the resignation must be accepted by the chapter. Since there is no chapter to accept the resignation, ergo, the resignation can not be accepted until a new charter is established.