Catholic Churches Say Condoms Don't Stop AIDS - BBC - Page 4

adduncan · #46 10-09-2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Munchkin03

I personally don't think it's the role of a religious body--ANY RELIGIOUS BODY--to tell people what they should do in the bedroom, since it has nothing to do with the actual following of the religion.

Pardon me, but, how do you *know* that theology (of whatever stripe) has no bearing on human sexuality?

I already know that you are no expert on Catholic thinking, I'm guessing you (and anyone else on this thread) hasn't spent alot of time studying faith of any sort, since many here are avowed athiests or agnostics.

So, how can you say that the "actual following of the religion" has nothing to do with the expressions of sexuality?

I already know the answer to that, I just want to hear you say it.

GeekyPenguin · #47 10-09-2003, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
I already know that you are no expert on Catholic thinking, I'm guessing you (and anyone else on this thread) hasn't spent alot of time studying faith of any sort, since many here are avowed athiests or agnostics.

So just because I'm a lapsed Catholic (which doesn't mean agnostic or atheist, btw) means I haven't studied faith of any sort? Shoot, my parents are going to pissed about all that money they spent on Confirmation classes and tuition at my Jesuit university.

adduncan · #48 10-09-2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
So just because I'm a lapsed Catholic (which doesn't mean agnostic or atheist, btw) means I haven't studied faith of any sort? Shoot, my parents are going to pissed about all that money they spent on Confirmation classes and tuition at my Jesuit university.

Oh, come on, GP, you know better than that!

If the statement doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't mean YOU personally.

This is why these "discussions" get so mean. Did I quote you in that post? No. Did I say "Geeky Penguin means this" in my post? No. Could I have had other people in mind when I typed this? Absolutely. So why go with the "Oooo--you attacked me, so Take THAT!!" approach when it probably wasn't referring to you at all?

My turn to roll my eyes.

GeekyPenguin · #49 10-09-2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
Oh, come on, GP, you know better than that!

If the statement doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't mean YOU personally.

This is why these "discussions" get so mean. Did I quote you in that post? No. Did I say "Geeky Penguin means this" in my post? No. Could I have had other people in mind when I typed this? Absolutely. So why go with the "Oooo--you attacked me, so Take THAT!!" approach when it probably wasn't referring to you at all?

My turn to roll my eyes.

I just happen to know for a fact that some of the other people in the thread have also studied faith at a level greater than your average GCer. I don't think there's any rules out there that say that all atheists haven't studied faith and then made a conscious decision about that.

Faith is just that: faith. There's no real, absolute, concrete proof that there is a God/Allah/Muhammed/Yahweh/Prom Queen Barbie.

I entirely agree with Munchkin that theology/religion should play no part in a nation's decision on birth control, as it currently is in the US. While individuals may choose to practice one way or another, that doesn't mean that the viewpoints of "compassionate Christians" should be imposed on the rest of us. That's why I pop a happy pill every night even though the Church thinks I'm committing a sin. It's my decision, not the Pope's or Rick Santorum's.

damasa · #50 10-09-2003, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
Oh, come on, GP, you know better than that!

If the statement doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't mean YOU personally.

This is why these "discussions" get so mean. Did I quote you in that post? No. Did I say "Geeky Penguin means this" in my post? No. Could I have had other people in mind when I typed this? Absolutely. So why go with the "Oooo--you attacked me, so Take THAT!!" approach when it probably wasn't referring to you at all?

My turn to roll my eyes.

With all due respect you did say this in your previous comment "I'm guessing you (and anyone else on this thread) hasn't spent alot of time studying faith of any sort, since many here are avowed athiests or agnostics." In a sense that can be directed at/to anyone that has commented on this thread.

Yes I am a lapsed Catholic but I have studied my fair share of faith(s). I've even gone on to study faiths unrelated to Catholicism and the like.

Just pointing out the reason as to why Geeky might have taken your comment the way she did.

Onto the fact of the article, when you have a member of the church telling an Aids infected Choirmaster to not use condoms while having sex with his wife because HIV can get through - you have got to be kidding me right? So is he supposed to go at it raw and increase his wife's risk 100 fold, at least?!

Munchkin03 · #51 10-09-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
Pardon me, but, how do you *know* that theology (of whatever stripe) has no bearing on human sexuality?

I already know that you are no expert on Catholic thinking, I'm guessing you (and anyone else on this thread) hasn't spent alot of time studying faith of any sort, since many here are avowed athiests or agnostics.

So, how can you say that the "actual following of the religion" has nothing to do with the expressions of sexuality?

I already know the answer to that, I just want to hear you say it.

Calm down! There isn't Catholic-bashing everywhere you go. Please don't get overly defensive on me, thank you very much. For all you know, I could be a lapsed Catholic.

You can be an atheist or agnostic and have a HUGE body of knowledge about religion. In fact, some of the most religiously informed people I know are atheist or agnostic.

I simply said that any religion has no role in the bedroom.

Relax! Relate! Release!

GeekyPenguin · #52 10-09-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Munchkin03
I simply said that any religion has no role in the bedroom.

Except for yelling "Oh God! God yes!!!!!"

sugar and spice · #53 10-09-2003, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin

Faith is just that: faith. There's no real, absolute, concrete proof that there is a God/Allah/Muhammed/Yahweh/Prom Queen Barbie.

Dammit, Kath, you KNOW there is a Prom Queen Barbie. Sinner!

Quote:

Originally posted by damasa
So is he supposed to go at it raw

Hahahaha I heart Blaine.

Aphigurl · #54 10-09-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Except for yelling "Oh God! God yes!!!!!"

HA HA -- tooooo funny.

adduncan · #55 10-09-2003, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by damasa

Onto the fact of the article, when you have a member of the church telling an Aids infected Choirmaster to not use condoms while having sex with his wife because HIV can get through - you have got to be kidding me right?

First, no one heard a priest or any Catholic say any such thing. According to the "fact" in the article, a worker claimed that he heard it. Hmmmm.... worker wants to distribute condoms, probably doesn't like what the RCC teaches, that sounds to me like motivation to "embellish" things a little. Not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying there is reasonable doubt.

Quote:

So is he supposed to go at it raw and increase his wife's risk 100 fold, at least?!

"With all due respect" you know as well as I do that AIDS wouldn't be as huge an issue in this area if it weren't for rampant prostitution and some African leaders who have claimed that HIV isn't the cause of AIDS.

This issue is bigger than this thread, and there are a lot of facets to it. Unfortunately this chat forum is easy to reduce to "sound bites" which reality isn't going to fit.

VirtuousErudite · #56 10-10-2003, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan

"With all due respect" you know as well as I do that AIDS wouldn't be as huge an issue in this area if it weren't for rampant prostitution and some African leaders who have claimed that HIV isn't the cause of AIDS.

I'm confused????????

Optimist Prime · #57 10-10-2003, 01:55 AM

So an atheist cannot study faith? Bring up anything and I can say something about it. Any faith, including but not limited to: Christianity, Gnostism, Judiasm, Islam, European Paganism, Ancient Egyptian and Sumerian, Hindu, and a whole lot of Buddhism.

Yeah.

If God was Common Sense, and Common Sense is dead....
God is Napping. Maybe try waking him up.

KSig RC · #58 10-10-2003, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Munchkin03
You can be an atheist or agnostic and have a HUGE body of knowledge about religion. In fact, some of the most religiously informed people I know are atheist or agnostic.
\

cause/effect? who knows

Anyway - Kitso, you're defending the church's position admirably, and I like the final point you're getting at - but you fail to account for a cardinal claiming that latex condoms implicitly contain 'pores' in the material matrix that are large enough to allow active virus particles through. Now, I'm no materials engineer, but I'm 100% certain that, barring defect, this is not generally the case.

Note that such claims as "90% effective" account for average use - including human error and manufacturing defects, if I'm not mistaken.

Optimist Prime · #59 10-10-2003, 02:53 AM

Why are all religious people so crazy?

DWAlphaGam · #60 10-10-2003, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin

Faith is just that: faith. There's no real, absolute, concrete proof that there is a God/Allah/Muhammed/Yahweh/Prom Queen Barbie.

All hail Prom Queen Barbie!

By the way, I agree with lovelyivy, sugar and spice, GeekyPenguin, et al. I don't feel like rehashing what they already wrote so well.