Some parents dont watch their kids.

[juniorgrrl]

My cousin, who is now 12, was a "bolter" when she was a baby. By the time she was a year old, she was walking and talking in nearly full sentences. She was totally fearless and would walk up to anyone and talk to them. When we went on vacation with her, you bet we used the harness!

Last night at mass, I saw a child that was dressed totally inapropriately - I said loud enough for the parents to hear "some people let their children dress like prostitutes." It was obvious they had money, so there was no excuse for a 5 year old to be in a dress that was very short (like it had been outgrown) and sandals with heels on them. Very trashy.

I was pissed becasue a few weeks back, one of the secretaries in my office brought her tard kid to work with her. He wandered around the office, annoyed and disrupted people...If i got up for one second, he took my chair and computer. I was sooo glad when he stopped coming to the office!

[AXO_MOM_3]

While I have not had to use a leash on my children (yet!), I can see where they are necessary at times. My neice can be pretty wild, (on Christmas day she escaped, went to the neighbors house and started ringing the doorbell) and I think there are times when she needs one! She does not listen to her parents when they ask her to stop, and just keeps on going! As a parent, she scares me not only for fear of darting into the road in front of a car, but getting far enough away for someone else to pick her up and take her away to do ghastly things to her. The world can be a scary place for parents. If I could, I would personally put tethers on all three of my girls and never let them out of my sight!

It can be a no win situation for parents in stores. If a child is tired, and it is an essential errand, it has to be done regardless. My girls tend to feed off of each other. The longer it takes, the louder and more undisciplined they become. (They do get tired of sitting quietly after about 10 minutes). If I yell at them or spank them, every one is going to call me a witch; if I do nothing, everyone says what a terrible parent. There's not really a place to put them in time out at a store either. All I can do is hope whoever I am dealing with hurries the heck up so I can get my children out of there!

As far as scantilly dressed children - I keep my girls looking like little girls, but that does not mean they like it! I think stores start targeting "sexy" to children as young as four! I can't believe some of the clothes out there that are for "kids". My eight year old looks at the Victoria Secret catalog now because one of her friends told her the clothes were cool. So I'm now having a conversation with my eight year old about the clothes in VS and why some of them are inappropriate for even grown women! Kids are growing up way too fast these days!

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by AXO_MOM_3
I can't believe some of the clothes out there that are for "kids". My eight year old looks at the Victoria Secret catalog now because one of her friends told her the clothes were cool. So I'm now having a conversation with my eight year old about the clothes in VS and why some of them are inappropriate for even grown women! Kids are growing up way too fast these days!

Tell me about it! My sister has done a really good job with keeping my niece dressed like a little girl, when her friends look like they should be working the corner of Main and First. The fact that the stores are marketing this stuff isn't that hot, from Mary Kate and Ashley to Limited Too, a lot of this stuff marketed to prepubescent girls is just sick! Of the stores that we shop at, only Nordstrom has been acceptable across the board for shopping for a 2nd grader. I can't imagine what it's like for other parents.

[aephi alum]

*bump*

<rant>

Ugh... So I was on vacation last week, and saw something that really irritated me. We went to dinner at the hotel restaurant one evening. As we entered the restaurant, we nearly tripped over a 5-year-old who was running out the door. As we were waiting to be seated, we saw that the table nearest the door, which had been set for 10, had at it 3 couples and about 8 kids ranging in age from infants to 5 or 6 years old. One of the chairs had been pushed back from the table, and in its place there was a play mat where 2 or 3 of the babies were crawling around and playing with various squeaky toys. The older kids were running wild, all around the restaurant and outside - and when they ran outside, none of the adults got up to keep an eye on them. A stroller was parked IN the restaurant's doorway. The staff had to constantly dodge the babies and children, often while carrying hot food or drinks, and the poor maitre d' looked like he was at his wits' end!

I'm all for bringing your kids with you to dinner, even at nice restaurants - IF they can behave properly in public. Plainly, these children were incapable of that, and their parents were incapable of disciplining them. If I'd acted like that I wouldn't have been able to sit down for a week!

Those parents should have arranged for room service and a babysitter for the kids (the hotel did offer babysitting), or staggered their dinner times so that someone could watch the kids, or at a bare minimum, kept the babies in their carriers instead of all over the floor, and told the older kids to sit properly in their seats and not to run around, or they will be taken back to their room (and no dessert!).

*sigh*

</rant>

[33girl]

OK, this isn't a "corporal punishment yes or no" comment.

But if you ARE going to spank your child if they continue to misbehave, please convey it to them in a more couth way than yelling at the top of your lungs that you are going to whoop their ass. I once heard a mom say to her kid in a very normal tone "don't be obstreperous." It might have been a big word, but you can bet from the way the kid immediately calmed down that they knew EXACTLY what the mother meant and EXACTLY what the consequences would be if they continued acting up.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
An antique shop near my house has a sign up that says, "All unattended children will be given a kitten."

You'd better believe that they don't have problems with unattended children.

Oh, that's good............

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally posted by aephi alum

I'm all for bringing your kids with you to dinner, even at nice restaurants - IF they can behave properly in public. Plainly, these children were incapable of that, and their parents were incapable of disciplining them. If I'd acted like that I wouldn't have been able to sit down for a week!

Those parents should have arranged for room service and a babysitter for the kids (the hotel did offer babysitting), or staggered their dinner times so that someone could watch the kids, or at a bare minimum, kept the babies in their carriers instead of all over the floor, and told the older kids to sit properly in their seats and not to run around, or they will be taken back to their room (and no dessert!).

I worked in a nice restaurant many years ago and the owner (an older woman with grown children) refused to get high chairs or booster seats for kids because she felt that they didn't belong in nice restaurants.

My peeve is the "Code of Conduct" at the Mariners games that lists every little thing an adult can't do for fear of being removed (and granted some things on the list deserve removal) and not a thing about the kids that are screaming, talking, kicking your seat, etc.

I would have gotten in SO much trouble (ruler comes to mind) if I had made any kind of scene in a public place when I was a kid. so much of what we were raised on (and made us pretty good adults) is now considered child abuse.........

[KerriMarie]

I work with some kids at camp that are just spoiled little brats... I seriously think kids nowadays just don't get punished enough. The things I watch these kids get away with - there's just no CONTROL! It's like the kids run the show, and the parents run around after them saying "Oh, please don't do that... it's not nice to do that..." but never actually DO anything!

[starang21]

Originally posted by SmartBlondeGPhB
I worked in a nice restaurant many years ago and the owner (an older woman with grown children) refused to get high chairs or booster seats for kids because she felt that they didn't belong in nice restaurants.

My peeve is the "Code of Conduct" at the Mariners games that lists every little thing an adult can't do for fear of being removed (and granted some things on the list deserve removal) and not a thing about the kids that are screaming, talking, kicking your seat, etc.

I would have gotten in SO much trouble (ruler comes to mind) if I had made any kind of scene in a public place when I was a kid. so much of what we were raised on (and made us pretty good adults) is now considered child abuse.........

weren't you the one who disagreed with me on the spanking issue?

[xok85xo]

I went out for dinner with a friend tonight and was immediately reminded of this thread..

So we decided to go eat at Legal Seafood at the mall today, as we're standing there waiting there is a family - two adults and two children - my guess is that they were 2 and 4. well there was this fishtank built into the floor, so of course the kids were standing on top of it - playing and whatever..not paying attention to the fact that they were in anyones way, and of course the parents didn't do anything to tell them to move - the kids were running around, screaming..just in general being really obnoxious. finally we were sat, and about 5 minutes later..guess who was sat next to us. the behavior only got worse - the youngest was basically banging silverwear, dropping plates (which luckily didn't break). eventually both kids were running around the restaurant - screaming, etc. did the parents say anything to them? no, of course not. by this point we are giving them really dirty looks, making really loud comments, etc. nothing. finally two hours later - we had finished our meals, they had finished theirs..you would think that with how attrociously their kids were acting they would have had the common decency to leave as soon as they finished their dinner, but no - they ordered dessert..note: the kids are still running around the restaurant at this point and the parents really haven't done anything to discipline them. finally they paid and are getting up to leave when my friend jennifer (who is not known for keeping her mouth shut in these situations, and i'm surprised she restrained herself as long as she did) turns to the father and says "well, i hope you enjoyed >your< meal" to which he gets all defensive and is like "what do you want me to do? they're small children blahblahblah" so she said "you can try disciplining them a little better" so the mother then chimes in at this point basically yelling saying that >we< should have had >our< table moved (note: we were sitting there first) and that we shouldn't come out to eat if we didn't like it. uh? excuse me? your children are terrorizing the restaurant and >WE< should have stayed home? basically the people refused to accept any blame for their inability to control their children. so clearly that explains the children. seriously, what the hell is wrong with people? after they left the people sitting behind us and the waiter basically applauded us, and told us they couldn't believe we dealt with it as long as we did. seriously - what the hell is wrong with people?!?!

[GPhiLlama]

I was on a wrist leash as a toddler. I wasn't a bolter.
So why was I on it?
Because we would go into New Orleans frequently to go shopping and whatnot, and my parents knew that the area wasn't safe, and they didn't want to risk having us get kidnapped. In some areas, it's a safety precaution.

[AOPIHottie]

When I worked at Babies R Us some mothers would actually LEAVE their baby IN the cars!! Of course "the car was running and locke, the baby is in a carrier and fine" HELLO!!!!! What the hell is wrong with you. I don't care if you were just "running in for diapers" DO NOT leave your 3 month old in a locked car ALONE. We had a manager that would go and stand by the car until the mom came out and would threaten to call the police. One lady got so bithcy and defense that she wrote the license plate down and called the police.

We also one day-raining by the way-2 little boys, 4 and 6 RUN across a busy street to our store. These boys were wearing tshirts and shorts-no shoes-and had some change in thier hands. Well apparently "daddy" fell asleep and we came over here to buy a toy. A lady who had been shopping saw them run across the street. So we called the police who took the boys home. A few days later the grandmother came in to thank us for taking care of the boys. Apparently mom and dad were getting divorced because dad was a pot head and had passed out while taking care of the boys. People should be SHOT.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by GPhiLlama
I was on a wrist leash as a toddler. I wasn't a bolter.
So why was I on it?
Because we would go into New Orleans frequently to go shopping and whatnot, and my parents knew that the area wasn't safe, and they didn't want to risk having us get kidnapped. In some areas, it's a safety precaution.

I thought parents put their children on leashes in order to avoid kidnapping. I never considered 'bolting' from their parents until I read this thread.

I went shopping at Costco in Westchester this morning. It is a huge, overwhelming store packed with people. I was so surprised that their were no children incidents. There must have been over 20 kids in the store. I guess Westchester children are very well behaved. And I didn't see a single leash.

[AGDee]

All kids are different and parenting is going to be different for each child.

We used a wrist leash once for my son. He was about 18 months old and we went to Sea World. He couldn't see any exhibits from his stroller but he was a kid who had gone from crawling to running and we didn't trust him to NOT bolt. The leash gave him some freedom to see everything without getting lost and without us constantly running after him.

My daughter would burst into tears from a sharp "Shannon!" to "the look" and would immediately stop misbehaving. My son however received spankings.. it was the only thing that worked with him. He's 7 now and spankings don't work (although his dad still tries that method)... What works now is grounding him from Game Boy and Playstation. It KILLS him and he behaves with that threat.

My kids know that whining and having temper tantrums only makes my NO more firm, but that they get what they want from their dad if they whine enough. Kids are smart!

As for restaurants, when they were younger, we went out to eat a lot but we had our list of what we called "kid friendly" restaurants. Those that gave us extra napkins, had crayons and coloring things for kids, those who gave us saltine crackers for the kids to keep them calmer while waiting for dinner to arrive, etc. AND we always tipped waitresses who did those things VERY WELL. My son is a bit hyper and when he got restless, his dad would take him for a walk (not run) around the restaurant to look at the decor or, if the weather was nice, he would take him outside for a few minutes to use up some of his energy, etc. This was done quietly though!

We were at a Hallmark store out of necessity (I tried not to take my son to such places whenever possible) and while I was paying, he touched something he shouldn't have. I gave him "the look" and a firm "Nathan, DON'T!". The cashier thanked me for caring enough to say something to him and said most parents don't.

There is a balance between "Seen and Not Heard" and letting them run amuck.

Dee

[AGDLynn]

Juvenile court judge probed
Fulton jurist's daughter, 4, was found in street

By TY TAGAMI
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

• Atlanta/South Metro community page


Atlanta police and the state agency responsible for protecting children are investigating an incident involving the chief judge of the Fulton County Juvenile Court after her 4-year-old daughter was found wandering the street shoeless and alone late one night in November.

According to police reports, Judge Nina Hickson's child was picked up Nov. 29 on an East Point street while her mother ran an errand at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. The child, Wesley Victoria Hickson, was rescued by a passer-by who spotted her and called authorities. East Point police contacted Atlanta police, who returned the girl to her mother.

As a juvenile court judge since 1999, Hickson has presided over cases of neglect and decided custody matters involving other parents.

She said by telephone Friday that she could not comment on the incident because the Georgia Division of Family and Children Services was investigating.

"Because it's still pending, it's not appropriate for me to comment at this point," Hickson said.

An East Point Police Department report of the incident said Hickson told an officer that she thought her daughter was asleep when she left the house to go to the airport to pick up luggage.

The child left their southwest Atlanta house and wandered a half-mile down the street and into East Point before she was seen by a passing limousine driver, who called the East Point police. The driver waited with the girl until officers arrived.

"The juvenile stated that she was scared and walked out the front door," said the East Point police report, which also noted the child said no one was at home.

"She [the judge] assumed the child was down for the rest of the night, and she took a chance," Sgt. Tony Mabry, an investigator with the East Point police, said in an interview this week.

Mabry said East Point officers let the Atlanta officers take the lead when they arrived on the scene because the case originated in Atlanta.

No charges were filed against Hickson, 43. Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard said Friday that the supervising prosecutor who talked with the Atlanta police just after the incident suggested the police should investigate further.

"The supervisor said to the police, 'You probably need to look into it some more, but it is going to be your decision,' " Howard said. "This is the type of case where it looks like you need to follow up."

Investigation delayed

But the Atlanta police did not investigate immediately.

"Unfortunately, the Crimes Against Children unit was not notified when the incident occurred, and an investigator had not been assigned the case," said a statement released Friday by the Atlanta criminal investigation division commander. "However, it will be investigated in the same thorough manner all cases are, particularly those involving children," the statement from Deputy Chief P.N. Andresen said.

When asked exactly when the investigation was begun, Atlanta police spokesman Sgt. John Quigley responded: "Very recently." He said there was no evidence from police reports and recordings of conversations that the officers knew they were dealing with a judge. "But they may have. I just couldn't establish it today," he said Friday.

Quigley said such cases can result in a misdemeanor charge. "I think in most cases, if you leave a 4-year-old alone, you're going to get charged with reckless conduct," the police spokesman said. "It will be investigated," he said. "It's just unfortunate that it's taken some time."

DFCS spokesperson Renee Huie said she could not comment on specific cases but said children can be taken away from parents who neglect them. Huie added that much depends upon the circumstances, such as the age of the child, the reason the child was left alone and whether there is a family history of neglect.

"It's kind of a fine line as to what constitutes neglect," said Huie. "We just say never leave a child alone. A child under 10 should never be left alone."

Huie said police ordinarily would give a lost child to a DFCS worker who would put the child in foster care. A judge would have to be contacted within 24 hours to determine custody. Huie said the situation is more complicated if a parent arrives on the scene with police, which is what happened in the Hickson case. Then it is up to police discretion, the DFCS spokeswoman said.

Hickson's daughter was found by Arthur Conley, a 62-year-old limo driver who was on his way home from work when he saw her running along Hogan Road, a quiet residential street.

"That caught my eye. What was she doing out there?" said Conley, an East Point resident who works for Affordable Limousine Service of Lawrenceville. He said the girl looked at him because he was driving a white stretch limo. Conley drove down the street, turned around and pulled up beside her.

"Hey sweetie, are you lost?" he said he asked.

"I want to catch a ride to the airport," he said the 4-year-old responded. "Can you take me to the airport?"

Conley had dialed 911 on his cellphone as he was driving, and he had a dispatcher on the line. He said the girl was wearing a long-sleeved shirt, jeans and socks, with no shoes and no jacket. He said it took about 15 minutes for East Point Police to arrive.

Atlanta police also arrived, and so did Hickson, who had returned home from the airport to find her daughter missing. She called Atlanta police at 12:16 a.m. on Nov. 30, two minutes after the East Point police asked Atlanta to send a unit regarding a missing person, Quigley said.

The girl was uninjured, and the officers handed her over to her mother, according to the East Point police report.

"That was an unbelievable night for me. I got grandchildren," Conley said. "We stay on top of kids, we don't allow that kind of [stuff] to go on."

Expert critical

A national expert on child abuse said he would have expected DFCS to investigate conditions at Hickson's home before allowing the child to return.

Dr. Randall Alexander, the director of the Center on Child Abuse at the Morehouse School of Medicine, said authorities must be careful not to allow sympathy for the parent to overwhelm concern for the child's well-being.

"I know people feel bad about the neglect afterward, but from a medical perspective, when the kid is lying on the operating table critically injured, or in a morgue, . . . [parents'] feeling bad doesn't matter," Alexander said.

-- Staff writers Steve Visser and Jeffry Scott and news researcher Nisa Asokan contributed to this article.