Religion question...

[OrigamiTulip]

I was a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Most Mormon children are baptized at age 8, after they finish their CTR classes. I was baptized at age 14, two years after I began attending the church there. Deep down, I really only believed about half of the teachings, but at the time, I thought that with time and faith, the rest of it would fall into place. As I matured, I realized that it wasn't going to happen that way, and that I had some major misgivings about the basics tenets of the religion. I still believe many of the things I started out believeing, but I've come to realize that those are mostly common sense/living a good life/being a good person type of thing that aren't limited to any one religion. I left the church when I came to college, and looking back I realize that being baptised was probably a mistake, that at 14 I wasn't mature enough to make a wise decision about it. I can't imagine having to make that decision at 8.

[Munchkin03]

I wasn't raised religiously at all--we celebrated Christmas, and said grace at meals--but that was about it. Today, I'd consider myself an atheist or an agnostic. I have investigated various religions, but I never found one I was 75% happy with, let alone 100% (especially when it came to gender relations and sexuality!). Maybe if I have children, I will decide to raise them in a religious setting.

With that in mind, I believe that around 14 or 15--around the time of Catholic Confirmation is the appropriate time for the introduction into a religious community. The worst battles of adolescence have taken place, and the child has enough of an adult identity to make a somewhat informed decision. I know that where I grew up, social cliques revolved around which church you attended, which impacted the religious attitudes at my very public school. By the time 9th or 10th grade rolls around, those peer pressure issues are less insidious. I also think at that age, someone is more equipped to understand the responsibilities of being an active member of a religious community.

[juniorgrrl]

Originally posted by pinkyphimu
i am so with you on that one!!! i went to catholic school from k thru 8th grade. in the 3rd grade, we always had to talk about the gospel and homily on mondays. i didn't go to church bc my parents didn't take me. i was 8, was i supposed to hotwire the car and drive myself? well, one monday, i was called on to answer the questions. i had no idea, but i guessed...there are only 4 people who wrote the gospels....lol. the nun figures out that i am only guessing and asks why i didn't go to church. i explain that no one took me. she said that i should tell my parents that i have to go and she proceeded to tell me that if they didn't take me i should take myself. i should walk if i had to bc it was that important to go to church. since i lived 3 miles away from the nearest church, i really didn't think it would be appropriate to walk all by myself!!! did she even think about the safety of an 8 yro walking all that way alone (and she did know where i lived)?

in 5th grade, we were talking about how the isrealites were the "chosen" people and how only they would go to heaven...then at the same time, we were saying how only catholics would go to heaven...so i wanted an explanation. i was basically told by a nun that it just was so there, stop asking. at this point, i was a little wary.

in the 8th grade, i really and truly ended my belief in the catholic church. my teacher that year, a nun, was awesome. she was soooo "cool." one day in health class, we got on the topic of sex and abortion. someone asked if abortion was ok if the woman was raped. she said (and i am COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY NOT LYING) that god would never allow a women to get pregnant unless she enjoyed it. i almost fell out of my chair. to this day, i get totally aggrevated when i think of this. given the statistics that 1 out of 4 women get raped at one point in her lifetime.........i am so angry that this woman would stand in front of a group of children and say this.

in the area that i grew up in, first confession and communion were in grade 2. confirmation occured in each church every three years for 6-8 graders. i was supposed to receive confirmation in the 8th grade, but i switched schools and the new school had confirmation the previous spring. i thought i had escaped, but my mom made me get confirmed at our church. i was in the 10th grade and i even said that i really didn't want to be confirmed and it wasn't what i believed in. it was terrible! my parents aren't even religious!!!

Wow. I'm so sorry you had such a BAD BAD catholic school experience. I can't imagine how those nuns could say that about pregnancy and "only if she enjoys it" That's horrible.



My 8th grade year our pastor went crazy and thought Jesus was coming back and the Virgin Mary was talking back to him...that kinda messed with my head a lot becasue it was right before my dad died. But I've been able to find other parishes that are more "normal" I was confirmed at 16, in my junior year of HS. It was something I thought long and hard about but finally decided to go through with it.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by pinkyphimu
one day in health class, we got on the topic of sex and abortion. someone asked if abortion was ok if the woman was raped. she said (and i am COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY NOT LYING) that god would never allow a women to get pregnant unless she enjoyed it.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by chitownxo
I am sorry that some of you have had this experience. Maybe it's because I did not go to Catholic school, but I had the exact opposite experience. My parents, priests, CCD teachers, whomever, always encouraged debate.

You're very fortunate, then, and so are your students.

The question I asked wasn't even a "hot" debate-inducing question. We had been given an assignment, where we had to write a report on a prophet. We were given a list of "approved" prophets from which to pick. On the list was Sarah. I saw that and said something like "Oh, I didn't know Sarah was considered a prophet." My CCD teacher completely lost it and told me to shut up and accept what I was told... then she called in the director of the CCD program (a nun who had just started there the previous fall) and SHE lost it and started screaming at me in front of my entire class, for being "disrespectful" to my teacher. (She'd have made a great DZO )

After that incident, my father pulled me out of CCD and taught me from a catechism for the rest of the year. The catechism's question and answer format kind of bothered me - it struck me as saying "Here are all the questions you'll ever need to ask about your faith, and look! Here are the answers!" This especially bothered me because the whole reason I was learning from a catechism was that I'd gotten thrown out of CCD for asking a question.

I was re-enrolled in the 8th grade confirmation class the following year. Interestingly enough, the CCD program had a new director by that time.......

[swissmiss04]

My problem w/ any church that discourages questioning is that if they had something really good they should encourage questioning. Like if you were buying a great car, wouldn't the salesperson be open to any question? Likewise, if it were a lemon, wouldn't the salesperson be rather sketchy and elusive? I think what causes so many people to stray or just leave is the fact that there are so many answerable unanswered questions. So sad.

[OleMissGlitter]

I was confirmed in the 8th grade and I had wonderful teachers for my confirmation. I also attended Catholic school for 15 years in New Orleans, (public schools aren't that great in New Orleans so you either attend Catholic or Private), and I feel I was taught everything there is to know about Catholicism. I am not the perfect Catholic however, I do feel that I could not abandon my faith and change because everyone in my family is Catholic and it is a part of me like my letters are a part of me.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
I was raised in the Presbyterian church, which is known for being fairly tolerant and open. (In some people's opinion's, too much so.) I was confirmed in 4th grade, which I admit was a bit young, but my minister knew I was mentally and spiritually old enough to go through with it.

Exactly the same for me. I felt no pressure to be confirmed, nor have I ever felt that there was no room for asking questions. I'm still a very active Presbyterian, however, despite ocassional disagreements with every jot and title of what that entails.

Confirmation age differs among Presbyterian congregations -- anywhere from fifth grade or so to high school. In ours, confirmation is typically at Pentecost of one's seventh or eigth grade year, after two years (yes, two years) of weekly (during the school year) confirmation classes, as well as individual study with an elder matched to the confirmand. I know it sounds like a long process, but part of the reasoning is that confirmation is a serious commitment, and the confirmands are taken very deep into every aspect of faith and active congregational life so that they know what they are getting into and can make an informed decision. At the end of the process, each confirmand must write his or her own faith statement -- the things he or she believes. I am constantly amazed at the depth of understanding apparant in some of these.

FWIW.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
If I had told my pastor that I had reservations but was going through with confirmation because my parents wanted me to, my momma would have tanned my hide the minute we got home from church.

Eeek!

ETA: I guess, upon reflection, my biggest problem with most types of Christianity is that they use fear to manipulate children. Not cool.

If you said "many types" rather than "most types," I might agree with you. And in America, maybe it is "most." But looking at it on a world-wide scale, I think this may be a gross overgeneralization.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Relegion is very simple, We all beleive in a Supreme Being, We just call it by a different name!

<diversion to soapbox>

I fear I will offend some people by saying this, but I think I need to say it anyway.

It ain't that simple. It is romantic, egalitarian and "pseudo-tolerant" to say it is that simple, but it just ain't. And in my opinion, it can be offensive to say it is.

One example: traditional Buddhism is nontheistic/atheistic. That is, traditional Buddhism says there is no God. As a specific citation, the Dalai Lama says there is no God. Thus, many if not most Buddhists do not believe in a Supreme Being. Universal forces, perhaps, but not a Supreme Being, by whatever name. For me, as a monotheist and a Christian to say "we all believe in the same thing/a Supreme Being, we just call it by a different name" not only ignores reality, but it shows, in my opinion, a disrespect for Buddhists who sincerely believe there is no Supreme Being. It's like me saying I know more about what they believe than they do.

And that doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the diametrically opposed views of a Supreme Being some religions present.

I'm all for tolerance and understanding between religions. But I think the first steps in tolerance and understanding is to recognize our differences and to avoid declaring "agreement" where there is no agreement.

Truly sorry if I have offended anybody.

</soapbox>

[xo_kathy]

I was baptised by a Catholic priest in the clubhouse of the complex my parent's lived in. My father's side is all Catholic school attending Irish folks. My mom's side are protestant of one form or another. My parent's divorced when I was three so I began attending Presbyterian church with my mother. I was confirmed in 8th grade - although I only remember one year of classes, MysticCat? Anyway! At the time confirmation in my church also meant you could take communion because you understood what it truly represented. Now the Presbyterian church (and from what I learned last Sunday they have held this belief since the 70's) allows all children to take communion, which I find really great. I had no idea what was going on when I was baptised, obviously, but now I understand it and I appreciate it. Yet, I don't feel I need to go through it again just because of that. It's sort of like initiation! You are really confused when it first happens, but the more you see others go through it and live it the more you can appreciate it! OK, silly analogy but...

Also, to those who were posting about the bad funeral experiences, I think no harm was intended. I think it was a not very eloquent minister! When my uncle passed away my cousins asked me to bring the gifts to the alter. Being the non-Catholic I am I was confused as to when to do it. So I went to the priest and asked him when. He said, "Well, don't you know? Aren't you Catholic?" I said, "Well, my family is and I am a Christian, but protestant." So he mumbled off an answer and walked away in a huff. Then as Communion came, he said, "All those who are Catholic are welcome to take communion" and honest to Pete he looked right at me! So I took it anyway, but from my aunt, because last time I heard the story Jesus didn't say, "Catholics only, do this in rememberance of me." So, some people just don't know how to make you feel comfortable I guess! It's really no wonder so many folks get turned off on organized religion....

ETA - I know that in Catholic church they believe non-Catholics can't take communion, it just upset me that the priest was so harsh - for lack of a better word.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
I was confirmed in 8th grade - although I only remember one year of classes, MysticCat? Anyway!

Like I said, varies from congregation. When I was confirmed, the class was about 4 months long.

At the time confirmation in my church also meant you could take communion because you understood what it truly represented. Now the Presbyterian church (and from what I learned last Sunday they have held this belief since the 70's) allows all children to take communion, which I find really great.

My first communion was after confirmation, too. But you are right -- since the 70's, all baptized children have been allowed to commune. (For that matter, all baptized people, whether Presbyterian or not, may commune.)

I had no idea what was going on when I was baptised, obviously, but now I understand it and I appreciate it. Yet, I don't feel I need to go through it again just because of that. It's sort of like initiation! You are really confused when it first happens, but the more you see others go through it and live it the more you can appreciate it! OK, silly analogy but...

Not so silly, really. Just as initiation joins you to your GLO, baptism joins you to the Body of Christ. It can't be repeated, because you are already joined (and no Presbyterian minister would do a re-baptism for this reason), but you can learn to "live into" its meaning afterward, and every time you witness it happening to someone else, you can "remember your own" and "be thankful."

[ZTAMiami]

I was baptised at 4 (a little late) and attended Catholic School from K-12th grade. First Communion was 2nd grade, Reconciliation was 4th and Confirmation was done on your own time whenever you were ready. You had to attend Sunday classes for that ( I was 13)
I never ever felt that debate was not allowed. It was openly encouraged. I never heard a nun or priest say that only Catholics were going to heaven. We were taught that anyone who lived good and moral lives were accepted into Heaven just the same. Pro-life and Pro-choice debates were common and no one was chastised for their beliefs. There was no fire and brimstone talk. No fear of God put into us. No threats of being hellbound. I feel like it was just such a relaxed atmosphere in which to be raised and I hope to give my daughter a Catholic education as well. She can make up her own mind whether or not to be confirmed.
My 5 yr old nephew has been attending a Baptist Pre-K and I am shocked at the things that come out of his mouth. He sings songs about the "blood of the sinners" and pledges allegiance to the Christian flag. Teachers show up at the kids homes unanounced to see what kind of TV and music the parents are into. Dancing is not allowed, etc. My sister plans on raising him Catholic (he is baptised) but she liked this school. She will be transferring him out next year.
Bottom line- when you are scared into believing in God, something is wrong!

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Not so silly, really. Just as initiation joins you to your GLO, baptism joins you to the Body of Christ. It can't be repeated, because you are already joined (and no Presbyterian minister would do a re-baptism for this reason), but you can learn to "live into" its meaning afterward, and every time you witness it happening to someone else, you can "remember your own" and "be thankful."

Right, I know in my own church I would not be re-baptised. I was referring more to people who believe they have to be willingly baptised to be "born again". Or that people say you weren't old enough to make that decision so it might not be as valid.

[DWAlphaGam]

Originally posted by BetaRose
...I still believe many of the things I started out believeing, but I've come to realize that those are mostly common sense/living a good life/being a good person type of thing that aren't limited to any one religion...

I agree with this 100%. I never understood religious people who look down upon good, upstanding non-religious people and say that they're going to hell because they don't go to church even though they have not done anything wrong. Like Munchkin, I was raised without relgion, but my family has a Christian background, so we celebrate Christmas and Easter, but mostly for the gifts and family gatherings. I would consider myself agnostic because I don't believe that one has to go to church or be religious to be a good person and to have morals, but I do believe in a higher being or force of some sort. I think the spirituality is more important than the act of going to church and participating in the ceremonies--religion is something that you should internalize, not something that you should have to prove to other people.