Anti-War Protesters.... - Page 4

DeltAlum · #46 03-22-2003, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KDatUTC
I think the anti and pro war arguments show the healthy democracy of our country. Just to know that we are in a country where we are allowed to express our own opinions and views makes me love being an United States citizen more.

So, before any of you start name calling and flaming...let's come together and pray for the troops who are risking their lives out there. We can atleast do something that matters...

Sorry, I'll get off my Ivory Soap Box

Ivory

Stay on your soap-box. It's a breath of fresh air.

There have been several comments made here which deserve mention.

First of all, that respect is due the OFFICE of the President. That's absolutely true. That's a lot different than respecting it's occupant.

Second, peace demonstrations may not stop a war, but they certainly help. Or do you think that the VC and NVA really had the power to defeat the American Military had it been given the political backing, and lack of political interference, it needed for victory?

Third, whether they turn out to be "lies" or not, there have been a lot of unsubstantiated claims used to justify the war. The stuff would never stand up in court. I choose not to characterize them as lies because I don't know, but I keep saying I'd sure like to see more convincing evidence.

Fourth, I'm not sixty-five just yet, but it's really strong comments and attitudes like that which really make me sit up and take notice and consider the real depth of any argument. Whether you really want to consider it or not, at least some amount of wisdom comes with age and experience. Discount that now if you want, but revisit it in twenty or thirty years.

Fifth, I probably wouldn't have used the "lies" word -- but I definitely wouldn't have called someone "ignorant" for stating an opinion.

Sixth, the only people who scare me with their posts are the ones who are ABSOLUTELY sure that their point of view is correct. It seldom works that way. I can't think of very many times when any decision I made was absolutely, 100% correct. Fortunately, they've been more right than wrong generally.

Finally, I've said this before, but believe it bears repeating. "America, Love It or Leave It," flies in the face of everything upon which this country was founded. I suspect that if anything will tear at the fabric of our democracy in the long run, it will be that kind of attitude -- not protestors for or against a war.

By the way, nobody seems to mention the pro-war demonstrators. They're out there, too, you know -- just not in as large a number.

Edited to add: The comments on the Canadian Defense Forces are, in my mind, truly out of line. Canada has been our participating ally in nearly every war in which we've been involved. In this particular case, they stand with the vast majority of the world.

Sistermadly · #47 03-22-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Why does one have to be "Anti-American" if they are anti-war?

Because it's so much easier to put people in little boxes than to actually listen what they have to say.

(Of course, the same could be said of some of my fellow anti-war protestors as well. )

And for that woman who said it 'hurt like hell' to see people protesting against the war when her husband was risking his life -- I think it would hurt even worse if he came home in a casket. THAT is why I'm protesting this war.

Sistermadly · #48 03-22-2003, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CanadianTeke
I don't understand what the purpose of insulting Canada is.

I repeat...

Because it's so much easier to put people into little boxes than to actually listen to what they have to say.

I can say that this definitely applies to a lot of Canadians as well. Remember that whole "American bastards" controversy?

Peaches-n-Cream · #49 03-22-2003, 11:18 PM

This thread has become incredibly harsh and insulting which I think is unnecessary. Calling someone a liar or ignorant is only meant to insult. It's a way to shut down a dialogue between people of differing opinions. Each person's feelings, ideas, and beliefs are important, and we all can learn something. I thought that was the point of this message board and this thread to share ideas. I learned along time ago that although I might believe passionately in something, I have to respect the right of people to believe something different, something that might even contradict my beliefs. You can debate an issue without the insults and without dismissing someone.

I do respect the right to protest, but I don't think that the protests are constructive. I think that that there is a more productive way to use time and energy. Perhaps a better use of energy is to make care packages and write letters to the troops, or volunteer to help out a family with someone stationed in Iraq. They definitely need all the support and help that they can get at this very difficult time.

AOII_LB93 · #50 03-22-2003, 11:54 PM

Quote:

I am Pro- American [/B]

Here here! Cheers to the GREATEST country in the world. A country where we have the freedom to protest, though I think it's ridiculous.

"Support our troops or shut up." One of the signs I saw pro-American troops holding up. I can't say that I disagree, though a bit "rude" I guess.

RUgreek · #51 03-23-2003, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CanadianTeke
I don't understand what the purpose of insulting Canada is. I'm glad you support the war, way to go here's your medal. Canada has been involved in every United Nations peacekeeping mission to date. We invented peacekeeping for fucks sake. We may not have a strong military, but we don't need one. WE DON"T PISS PEOPLE OFF! last time i checked there were 3 countries participating in the coalition of the willing, Australia, USA and The United Kingdom, there are more than 200 countries on the face of the planet. Perhaps, just maybe, there is a reason 197+ aren't participating. So know what i would suggest you pull your head out of your ass and stop being ignorant.

You don't have a military because America is your neighbor. It's America's job to protect everyone in this world, and in the end some will eventually turn their backs on the U.S. and we'll keep protecting them. Why? Because everyone needs America whether they like to admit it or not. Is that an ignorant statement? Perhaps, but it does have a point to it.

The reason why Canada sticks out is because they are an enigma. Formerly a British Colony, you'd think they'd side with us and England. But apparently the French in them takes priority. The other 197+ countries don't support us for reasons beyond Canada's excuses. Countries in the middle east risk retaliation, attacks of terrorism from it's citizens, or other factors play a role in their decision. For example, the EU has threatened countries seeking membership that they will lose that chance if they support the war. Canada, on the other hand, doesn't have any of these worries or concerns.

Piss people off? Any country that gets involved in foreign policy is going to have people happy and pissed off. Canada invented peace? Yea, prove that one buddy. And just how exactly is my opinion ignorant, all I said was that Canada has no interest either way in this war so they should just mind their own peace-making business, how is that being ignorant?

My little statement was a joke, but I understand why you take it personally since you live there. But just as a test, for now on I'm calling Canadian Bacon - Freedom Bacon

ZZ-kai- · #52 03-23-2003, 03:45 AM

Interesting comment, I didn't know that 13 year olds could join GLO's.

I didn't waste 45 minutes reading all the posts since I left because the discussion seems to have gotten a bit out of hand (which is fine I guess), however, I stick by my comments: if you don't like it, do something about it. Move to Iraq, be quiet OR speak up, run for office, vote, study politics....whatever, but do something about it. Sitting in circles with pipes on your arms, singing "coom-by-ah" will get you nowhere. Shutting down Michigan Ave and the Golden Gate bridge accomplish nothing. I laughed my ass off when that delivery guy came up to the yarned off intersection and said "Move your ass or I am going to drive right over you, I have a job to do".

If its not abortion, its war, if its not war, its red meat, if its not red meat, its vegetables, if its not vegetables, its the Administration, if its not the Administration its something else, blah blah blah blah blah. Build model airplanes or something. Get a hobby.

PS, AlphaGam1019, nice quotes, thats good stuff.

"Excuse me, can you blow me where the pampers is?"
"Excuse me, can you SHOW me where the CAMPUS is?"

We're not going to protest

Anyone else love PCU?

PPS, I am Pro- American

Quote:

Originally posted by KappaTarzan
i think just about everyone is making well thought out, rational statements.. except for ZZ-kai. you just sound like a really ignorant big-headed idiot.

**edited for grammar**

CanadianTeke · #53 03-23-2003, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek
You don't have a military because America is your neighbor. It's America's job to protect everyone in this world, and in the end some will eventually turn their backs on the U.S. and we'll keep protecting them. Why? Because everyone needs America whether they like to admit it or not. Is that an ignorant statement? Perhaps, but it does have a point to it.

The reason why Canada sticks out is because they are an enigma. Formerly a British Colony, you'd think they'd side with us and England. But apparently the French in them takes priority. The other 197+ countries don't support us for reasons beyond Canada's excuses. Countries in the middle east risk retaliation, attacks of terrorism from it's citizens, or other factors play a role in their decision. For example, the EU has threatened countries seeking membership that they will lose that chance if they support the war. Canada, on the other hand, doesn't have any of these worries or concerns.

Piss people off? Any country that gets involved in foreign policy is going to have people happy and pissed off. Canada invented peace? Yea, prove that one buddy. And just how exactly is my opinion ignorant, all I said was that Canada has no interest either way in this war so they should just mind their own peace-making business, how is that being ignorant?

My little statement was a joke, but I understand why you take it personally since you live there. But just as a test, for now on I'm calling Canadian Bacon - Freedom Bacon

I am not saying Canada invented peace I am saying we invented Peacekeeping. Look it up, the Prime Minister of Canada (Lester B. Pearson) won the Nobel Peace Prize for it! As for the connection between Canada and the US and England, We are a sovereign country, we are a member of NATO and we accept our role as that. No other member of NATO has joined the coalition, what makes you think we will? Because in 1867 we were British? Fuck that! You never said Canada should mind its own business, what I believe you said is that you "owned us". And I resent that more than any statement you could ever make. I am not a citizen of North America, sorry, I have my own views, and believe it or not my own constitution. I am a Canadian. Imagine if I said we owned the USA, there would be more flames towards me then there would be intelligent posts.

We have a military, like I said we have participated in every peacekeeping mission that has ever existed. In fact we were liberation France 2 years before America ever got involved. We fought in Kosovo, and we still have men on the ground in Afghanistan. WE ARE FIGHTING YOUR WAR!

By the way I am a British citizen, my cousin is a Royal Marine, so I am not entirely isolated, and I do care and pray for those who are over there. But I do not support their action.

MSKKG · #54 03-23-2003, 09:08 AM

It's all about timing. Protest the war in public BEFORE the war. After that, protest it with writing letters to those in charge. If the French people were protesting their leader's decision NOW, then we would know they don't agree--remember that THEY are not at war yet. We Americans are a family. Families can disagree, but you shouldn't air your dirty laundry to others.

By protesting after the fact, yes, people are sending a message to the rest of the world. You are also sending a message to our troops. Why play these mind games with the very people these protests are supposed to be supporting? Help them to see that what they are doing matters. The soldiers want this war to end a whole lot quicker than any of us.

As for the wife of the soldier who said that those comments hurt, granted, if her husband does come home in a body bag, that would hurt, too. How much easier it would be to deal with when she could know her husband was appreciated instead of resented by his country.

VirtuousErudite · #55 03-23-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MSKKG
It's all about timing. Protest the war in public BEFORE the war. After that, protest it with writing letters to those in charge. If the French people were protesting their leader's decision NOW, then we would know they don't agree--remember that THEY are not at war yet. We Americans are a family. Families can disagree, but you shouldn't air your dirty laundry to others.

By protesting after the fact, yes, people are sending a message to the rest of the world. You are also sending a message to our troops. Why play these mind games with the very people these protests are supposed to be supporting? Help them to see that what they are doing matters. The soldiers want this war to end a whole lot quicker than any of us.

As for the wife of the soldier who said that those comments hurt, granted, if her husband does come home in a body bag, that would hurt, too. How much easier it would be to deal with when she could know her husband was appreciated instead of resented by his country.

I just want to reinforce once again that showing opposition to the war is not synonomous with resenting solidiers.

librasoul22 · #56 03-23-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
I don't care if you support him or not.

The reason i feel that statement was ignorant had nothing to do with the first part of your lack of support.

It had EVERYTHING to do with the throwaway statement at the end "BUSH or HIS LIES".

Please, elaborate on these lies. what has he lied about? that Saddam has SCUDS? oh no wait, those must have been missles from Iran that Patriots shot down over Kuwait. That Saddam has committed atrocities for years? see above article and others posted that reference him gassing the Kurdish people of his own country.

So, please post all his "lies" and then refute them with the "truth" so you can educate me.

Kitso
KS 361

You know what? Read DeltAlum's post because he put it far more eloquently than I did.

Sucks that you say IGNORANT simply because you don't agree.

ZZ-kai-, whether or not you wanted to "waste time" reading the other posts on the thread, I think KappaTarzan about summed it up.

Sistermadly ^5, you got it about right.

PM_Mama00 · #57 03-23-2003, 12:12 PM

I can't really say if I'm for the war or against, because I don't really know ALL the facts. From what I do know of Saddam Hussein and his sons, the rapings, the murders, etc... I think that's all horrible horrible stuff. The US did give Saddam time to disarm, but he didn't. I think that the purpose of the war... if it is to disarm Saddam and stop the violence over there... is a just one.

This could be "ignorant" but I think of it this way. A child gets beaten by his parents daily. His parents are his "president/king/whatever". That child is helpless, because he is under the control of his parents. So social services comes in to rescue him. He may be very sad and upset that he is taken away from his parents, but in the long run it is for the good. What's worse? To be scarred emotionally for life, or to be beaten everyday till he is old enough to leave? I hope you guys see my point here.

I agree with whoever said that the President knows a lot more than the public does. Maybe he's making a mistake of sending over people, maybe he made the best decision in his Presidency. The fact is that the public does not know ALL the facts.

As I stated before, I'm not really for or against the war... but I'm assuming that a lot of people protesting the war are against the violence. So why have many protesters been arrested for getting violent?

I have a friend fighting in Iraq under the 101st Division. Whether you're for or against, everyone in our country should still be praying that our troops return safely.

Tom Earp · #58 03-23-2003, 12:20 PM

WAR IS WAR! No matter what you call it, a peace keeping mission or what ever!

People get killed and are DEAD! These are the men and women of the Armed Forces of the US and the other coellaction members!

Are we there because of the oil, maybe.

Are we there because of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Are we there because this is one sadistic SOB.

I agree, you all have the right to voice your oppinion but where else would you be able to live and have the rights you do in America? Have any of you been to other countrys other than yours! Well, I have and I was thrilled when I got back on Home Soil.

I have not seen a total count of dead members of the Armed forces from all countrys but I know that there will be loved ones who are now alone and not have their Loved ones come home alive!

I did not want the conflict, but it is here, live with it.

Canadians or more laid back than many on this post, and while I will kid them, I and many members of Greek Orgs have Brohters/Sisters in the Country to the North, they are part of a bigger picture, just as we are!

RUgreek · #59 03-23-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CanadianTeke
I am not saying Canada invented peace I am saying we invented Peacekeeping. Look it up, the Prime Minister of Canada (Lester B. Pearson) won the Nobel Peace Prize for it! As for the connection between Canada and the US and England, We are a sovereign country, we are a member of NATO and we accept our role as that. No other member of NATO has joined the coalition, what makes you think we will? Because in 1867 we were British? Fuck that! You never said Canada should mind its own business, what I believe you said is that you "owned us". And I resent that more than any statement you could ever make. I am not a citizen of North America, sorry, I have my own views, and believe it or not my own constitution. I am a Canadian. Imagine if I said we owned the USA, there would be more flames towards me then there would be intelligent posts.

We have a military, like I said we have participated in every peacekeeping mission that has ever existed. In fact we were liberation France 2 years before America ever got involved. We fought in Kosovo, and we still have men on the ground in Afghanistan. WE ARE FIGHTING YOUR WAR!

By the way I am a British citizen, my cousin is a Royal Marine, so I am not entirely isolated, and I do care and pray for those who are over there. But I do not support their action.

Fine, if Canada's role is that of a peacekeeping nation, then they have even less of a reason to be commenting on the war, in my opinion. Obviously then they had no intention of ever being involved in the conflict so that they could show up and be the peacekeepers later. If that's the case, then why do they make these statements? I dunno, maybe it's a publicity stunt.

I wouldn't say Canada is fighting our war if you're going to claim this peacekeeping role to your country, but I do know soldiers from Canada were killed in their missions, including Afghanistan, but the war over there is has ended so there is nothing left to fight.

My little statements about Canada started as a sarcastic joke, but maybe we do own Canada

What if there is a problem in the future and Canada needed America's help? Does the US have the right to go on TV saying, we won't defend Canada because we don't feel like it. It'll never happen, Americans will always be there for you, and that's the ignorant part of this situation that you just can't accept.

I have no quarrels or feelings about Canadians or citizens of the country, just your government officials. It's makes no sense for Canada to speak out in opposition against the US, especially when it's their interests as well we are protecting.

LeslieAGD · #60 03-23-2003, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MSKKG
It's all about timing. Protest the war in public BEFORE the war. After that, protest it with writing letters to those in charge.

AMEN!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but, let's face it, we're at war and it's not stopping anytime soon. It isn't helping anyone when people go out in masses and protest. In fact, people are getting injured, trampled, thrown in jail... This isn't helping our country.

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