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Welcome to our newest member, zaustinmarleyoz |
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11-12-2002, 07:15 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashville
Posts: 1,762
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My sorority can tell me when I'm in letters (or even if I'm not, if I'm in a place where everyone knows I'm an AXD) not to talk about X or Y or Z. But it doesn't make sense to tell me "therefore, don't talk AT ALL in class, or at work, or in the school cafeteria, just to avoid talking about X and Y and Z."
But that is in essence what this ban is doing. It is saying in effect that you can't talk AT ALL online. I understand completely if KKG does not want their members to discuss their ritual, their favorite alcoholic drink, or how old they were when they "did it" online. It probably discourages that sort of talk offline as well. However, this also makes it impossible to tell someone what KKG's flower is, what its philanthropy is, or how sisterhood has benefitted them - topics it presumably encourages offline.
I assume KKG trusts its members enough not to say inappropriate things in the "real world," since as far as I know a vow of silence is not part of joining. What makes Internet speech so very different?
__________________
Alpha Xi Delta
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11-12-2002, 07:32 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Ya man's a headache, I'll be ya aspirin
Posts: 5,298
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Quote:
Originally posted by kddani
Would our founders think of something like this? I don't think any sorority founder ever envisioned an org who would limit a woman's freedom such as this. Most of our founders had in mind a place where women could be free to express themselves. A place for women to be strong and have a voice.
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I think this is the best statement made on this topic today. We, including out natl officers speak quite often on returning to our founding values and ideals. Isnt the above partly what all female fraternities were founded on?
I also read KD's policy. I think its a fair piece. It leaves it up to judgement of the individual member, with provisions for inter/national involvment if need be.
Last edited by lifesaver; 11-12-2002 at 07:39 PM.
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11-12-2002, 08:14 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,668
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To add to the above point I think that GLO's need to TRUST their members to represent their organizations on the internet as well as out in the world respectfully and responsibly.
We took oaths, did the oaths have disclaimers that said "except for on the internet"?
I think it's a crock and hopefully they overturn it.
Best of luck KKG.
__________________
SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
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11-12-2002, 08:56 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ooooooh snap!
Posts: 11,156
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that is a major bummer  totally not cool. i hope someone finds out more about why they are doing it, and what might want other governing bodies of GLO's to begin such a thing.
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11-12-2002, 09:32 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counting my blessings!
Posts: 31,394
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It's been years since I've read our pledge book (yeah, it was a pledge book then!), but I do know that ADPi has very strict rules about the use of our name - that's why you rarely (if ever) see ADPi in a book of fiction or whatever.
That's why I'm not terribly surprised about KKG's decision. If you get a lot of irresponsible people posting, with your Greek letters in a huge signature, it just looks bad for the entire organization. I'm NOT saying in any way that KappaKittyKat was irresponsible so much as somehow, it looks to me that KKG wants to look over the posts of all Kappas & make sure they compare nicely to those of the other GLOs.
I cannot speak for other GLOs, or even as an Executive of Alpha Delta Pi; I just know that your freedom of speech ends when you give a bad reputation to the entire GLO.
Let the trash talk begin.
honeychile
__________________
~ *~"ADPi"~*~
♥Proud to be a Macon Magnolia ♥
"He who is not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
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11-12-2002, 10:03 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 27
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KDOnline, you said it. Now that I think about it, I'm not really surprised, either. So the question is, what can we, as members of the GC community, do to help Kappa form some sound policies and get these ladies back posting on here as soon as possible?
Quote:
And I wonder -- might it help if some GC moderators wrote to Kappa's Fraternity Council about (1) the value to all GLOs and all Greeks of GC, (2) the value -- to GC and to Kappa -- of Kappa participation on GC, (3) the standards expected of those who post on GC, (4) the standards some other GLO's have promulgated to guide their members about posting on GC, and (5) offering to help Kappa in developing appropriate guidelines?
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I think that would be a fabulous idea. It would be especially helpful, I would imagine, to hear from those of you whose organizations are progressive in this department. According to the Kappa website, snail mail can reach them at P.O. Box 38, Columbus, Ohio 43216-0038. I don't know to whom we might actually address these things... "Webmaster" or "Fraternity Council" or something?
It seems that three things are needed here:
1. For Kappa to understand the potential benefits of its sisters' posting on GC;
2. For Kappa to develop an internet policy-- something like KD's would be good here-- by which its members are expected to abide when "wearing their letters online;"
3. For Kappa to develop a network of cyber-savvy sisters whose job it would be to monitor boards like GC and make sure that Kappa sisters are living up to said policy.
I'm sure that Kappa's Fraternity Council will be hearing about this from its members over the next few weeks, but it wouldn't hurt for them to hear it from brothers and sisters of other organizations. I admire KDOnline and the progressive approach she's taken to helping bring her organization into the 21st century. Let us GCers band together and offer to do the same thing for Kappa.
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11-12-2002, 11:08 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Kansas USA
Posts: 23,584
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This is one of the most ludicrous things that I have every heard!
If this fine old " Soroity " think that the members that they deem are good enough to associate with a group caled lKKG, then they must feel that they are Women who fit into the so called mold of KKG!
It seems that they are a saying that we feel you are young adults but we will put you in TIME OUT!
From any of the members of KKG that I have had any contact with on this Site, they hold their Soroity in the highest esteem and represent them selves very well.
This Site has done more for the overall Greek Community than anything that I have ever seen!
The news media would have a field day with this and give the Greeks another Black Eye for something that is done out of stupidity and over bearence.
I know that some of the Int. Hdq. people have seen this site and feel there is nothing wrong with it.
This is one of the most inane things I have seen being a GC member who represents my Fraternity along with all of the others who are on here!
It is a very sad day if this really happens and any esteem I have for KKG will be long gone!
Shame, Shame, Shame! Hang your heads for even thinking of this!
My Greek Love to ALL OF THE KKG LADIES OF GREEKCHAT!
__________________
LCA
LX Z # 1
Alumni
Last edited by Tom Earp; 11-13-2002 at 12:06 AM.
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11-13-2002, 12:01 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 481
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That's absolutely heinous.
I know personally, I haven't had the best experience with any of the Kappas at my school. But when I came to GC, I saw a lot of amazing women from that organization, and it schooled me.
This goes for a lot of sororities and fraternities. Each chapter has it's own unique reputation at each school. I only knew the chapters at my school up until I came to GC. I found out that not all chapters of each organization are the same, and that there are amazing people in every organization.
Boo to Kappa for helping to perpetuate bad stereotypes and for holding back their members from what could be an amazing experience.
Last edited by Shine; 11-13-2002 at 12:03 AM.
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11-13-2002, 12:13 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,796
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ok, i am disgusted. let's say the kappas continue to post here inc their affiliation....what will happen to them? will mommy come to college and send them to their rooms w/o dinner? what about those of us who are alums? am i going to get grounded for 2 weeks? will people from kappa's hq log in and post things like, and the opinion of suzzykappa does not express those expressed by the national org....and if suzzykappa posts again, we are going to take away the car for one week?
just playing the devil's advocate here.....we all "know" that having an abortion is not "ladylike." so lets pretend that suzy sorority girl gets pregnant and decides to have an abortion (because of course, NO college students ever have sex bc that isn't "appropriate"). even tho she doesn't wear her letters to the clinic...and doesn't put her glo on the form, people on campus know this is happening....and they know her affiliation. will she be brought to the standards committee.....or get kicked out of the sorority by hq bc this is not ok with the national org????
i guess the biggest thing that irks me....and this is why some of my friends never went greek.....is that people feel that someone who happens to belong to a certain group is a certain way based on which group they are affiliated with. i am many things, a greek, a democrat, a feminist, an agnostic, an italian, a member of a teacher's union (and a million other things). each one of my actions do not reflect each group i belong to. i was raised catholic, but i don't believe in the religion....my catholic school teachers aren't chasing me down telling me that i have not presented myself as a good catholic and now i am in trouble!
i said this in another forum about this, but where do they draw the line?? yes, i don't think that people should post ritual or trash talk their org, but who cares if timmytke and pattyphimu post how old they were when they lost their virginity? if pattyphimu was 15 when she started having sex, it doesn't mean that EVERY phi mu has been having sex since she was 15.
and what if the org decided that it was not ok for memebers to date people of a certain race.....
this is a slippery slope.....and i have to say, that i feel this will only bring a bad light to glos.....what will the rush slogans be? come join us and lose your right to think for yourself....or i got my wish tonight, someone to make decisions for me!
please...this is ridiculous
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11-13-2002, 01:04 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Kansas USA
Posts: 23,584
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I hope this does not upset anyone, but I feel very strongly about this.
I sent an e-m to KKG HDQ.
The following is what I sent.
As a respected member and a Moderator on this Site, I have been reading about the plans for Kappa Kappa Gamma to restrict the Sisters of a Great Soroity in posting on this Site!
I would like to point out, that I have met many Great New Friends on this Site. I have also come to learn much more about the Members from many other Greek Organizations that I never new about! My University is not large in the Greek Community, six Fraternitys and only three Soroitys. Which I find is a shame.
The site has done more to cement Greek Relationships more so than any thing that I have ever had the pleasure to be on.
If there is a question to be answered, there is someone from ABC Fraternity or XYZ Soroity that can find an answer.
I have found that the Ladies of KKG on this Site are some of the finest and represnt your Soroity in an outstanding light from their posts and what they feel for for their Organization.
I hope as a member of the Greek Community of long standing, and a Moderator of this Site, that there is an explanation and ultimate proper decision on this matter.
In Kindest Regards,
Thomas Earp
Lambda Chi Alpha
Lambda Chi Zeta # 1
Pittsburg State U.(Kansas)
913-334-4567 (W)
913-299-0246 (H)
"The Time Is NOW, But Naught Without Labor!"
I may be out of bounds, but where will it stop?
It is a privledge to be a member of an Organization, but, there is a responseability on both ends.
__________________
LCA
LX Z # 1
Alumni
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11-13-2002, 01:07 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Colorado - Denver metro area
Posts: 110
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Assailing Kappa Kappa Gamma is Unproductive
Hey everyone,
Please realize that it is utterly unproductive to assail Kappa Kappa Gamma for this decision. It seems they have high-level decisionmakers who are anxious about what risks the internet poses to their organization. You are not going to help KappaKittyCat or her sisters by attacking the organization. Instead, you are only going to give their decisionmakers more reasons to be nervous.
DO show how being able to participate in GreekChat has helped you be a more panhellenically-minded person (here I'm using the word to refer to all GLOs).
DO show how others' participation in GreekChat has affected your understanding and respect of Greek life nationally.
DO show all the other ways that by being able to participate in something like GreekChat, we have become better Greeks.
DO NOT assail and rebuke Kappa headquarters for its decision; simply offer your hope that it is temporary, offer your belief that Kappas' participation here serves Kappa Kappa Gamma well on the whole, explain what they and their members will miss out on the longer the moratorium lasts, and offer productive ideas, so that they can establish a policy that will balance out their worries without cutting them off from the rest of the Greek world.
If you show how GreekChat can be supportive by offering Kappa ideas to help them sort this out, you will by those very actions prove one of the great strengths of GreekChat -- inter-GLO supportiveness. People here are usually fiercely panhellenic. If you show that, it will be difficult for them to say that they risk great embarassment here.
If instead you use this as an opportunity to assail an organization for what we believe is a dangerous or at best a harmful decision, you will make them even more nervous. This is so even if you write genuinely hoping to convince them that they're better off choosing a different course of action.
So, please choose your words carefully, and be as supportive of the entire organization as possible. Show them that they don't have to worry, show them what they will miss out on, and this will probably resolve much more quickly than if you use harsher words.
Last edited by Eupolis; 11-13-2002 at 01:11 AM.
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11-13-2002, 09:11 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counting my blessings!
Posts: 31,394
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Re: Assailing Kappa Kappa Gamma is Unproductive
Quote:
Originally posted by Eupolis
Hey everyone,
Please realize that it is utterly unproductive to assail Kappa Kappa Gamma for this decision. It seems they have high-level decisionmakers who are anxious about what risks the internet poses to their organization. You are not going to help KappaKittyCat or her sisters by attacking the organization. Instead, you are only going to give their decisionmakers more reasons to be nervous.
DO show how being able to participate in GreekChat has helped you be a more panhellenically-minded person (here I'm using the word to refer to all GLOs).
DO show how others' participation in GreekChat has affected your understanding and respect of Greek life nationally.
DO show all the other ways that by being able to participate in something like GreekChat, we have become better Greeks.
DO NOT assail and rebuke Kappa headquarters for its decision; simply offer your hope that it is temporary, offer your belief that Kappas' participation here serves Kappa Kappa Gamma well on the whole, explain what they and their members will miss out on the longer the moratorium lasts, and offer productive ideas, so that they can establish a policy that will balance out their worries without cutting them off from the rest of the Greek world.
If you show how GreekChat can be supportive by offering Kappa ideas to help them sort this out, you will by those very actions prove one of the great strengths of GreekChat -- inter-GLO supportiveness. People here are usually fiercely panhellenic. If you show that, it will be difficult for them to say that they risk great embarassment here.
If instead you use this as an opportunity to assail an organization for what we believe is a dangerous or at best a harmful decision, you will make them even more nervous. This is so even if you write genuinely hoping to convince them that they're better off choosing a different course of action.
So, please choose your words carefully, and be as supportive of the entire organization as possible. Show them that they don't have to worry, show them what they will miss out on, and this will probably resolve much more quickly than if you use harsher words.
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The only thing I would add to this is, if you are writing to any corporation and plan to be taken seriously, PLEASE use spell check!
honeychile
__________________
~ *~"ADPi"~*~
♥Proud to be a Macon Magnolia ♥
"He who is not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
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11-13-2002, 09:55 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 306
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Eupolis,
Sorry, no.
I’m not heading off to some ivory tower in Columbus to join hands with a bunch of isolated bureaucrats and sing kumba-yah. That may give them and their twitchy attorneys a warm fuzzy, but I’m pissed about this and the Kappas actives should be too.
As my friend Mr. Earp said (in a surprising burst of eloquence), the largely anti-greek news media would indeed have a field day with this, and it is a black eye for all greeks. It’s my issue as much as it is Kappa’s, and I am entitled to my reaction. And I do indeed believe that someheated backlash here is productive.
Plenty of people will contact their HQ to extol our online Kappas and their wonderful virtues, and to espouse the Greekchat community and its numerous benefits. Fine and dandy. But part of being a policy-maker in an established and respected group of upstanding educated women is taking responsibility for your actions. When you do something stupid, you should expect to be challenged on it. Quickly and loudly. If you read Kappa’s statement of their objectives and ideals in the “About KKG” section of the website with this fiasco in mind, the words printed there become laughable.
This policy is unproductive since it obviously doesn’t restrict imposters or disgruntled Kappas from posting derogatory remarks. It is glaringly arbitrary since it doesn’t deal with the numerous other public forums to which Kappas regularly contribute (eg. being interviewed by the media about their philanthropy project, submitting a letter to the editor of the school paper, and so on). The decision was clearly taken by people who do not understand the problem, since anyone who by now “has not heard of Greekchat and other online forums“ is obviously out of touch. It is almost 2003 and they're just getting around to realizing that the internet and its associated risks exist? And from my perspective it looks like this decision has not even been run through the proper legislative channels, making it appear even more unilateral and reactionary.
In the wise words of Cosmo Kramer, “I must say, this seems capricious and arbitrary”.
In fact, this is SO utterly ridiculous that I keep thinking it is some sort of prank or experiment. Alas, my calendar reads November 13 and not April 1.
So again, not just no but HELL NO.
Kappas, what does your ritual say about this? There’s your answer.
wptw
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11-13-2002, 10:11 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The beach
Posts: 7,948
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Quote:
Originally posted by wptw
This policy is unproductive since it obviously doesn’t restrict imposters or disgruntled Kappas from posting derogatory remarks.
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Exactly. If Kappa is looking to put an end to any derogatory remarks made towards their organization, they've banned the wrong people. They have restricted the rights of the real members who post on here who are thoughtful, insightful, and intelligent while allowing disgruntled non-members post freely. How can we stop people who are imposters who register on here just to flame? That's a question that we're all still trying to answer. But, the solution is not to take away the rights of posters who have positively affected these message boards.
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11-13-2002, 10:26 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Avondale, PA--heart of mushroom country!
Posts: 1,624
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Thanks, Tom for posting that email! We need more pro-Greek support like that!
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