Non-social GLOs...do you honestly consider us fellow Greeks?

[ChaosDST]

Oh, well, that's your take on it. Some of you all apparently want to be viewed in the same light.

Originally posted by Dionysus


You said something about that you never knew that APO wanted to be seen in the same light as social GLO's. I replied, "not really, we just want to be taken seriously".

[CrucialCrimson]

Originally posted by ChaosDST
They have, however, developed a distinctive African American style in their activities both social and philanthropic."

I definitely agree that we are a service-based organization, but the distinction was between professional and social, not professional, social or philanthropic - the phinlanthropy or service goes with both. Also, most colleges group fraternities and sororities as "social organizations" which raises tempers amongst some, but it's an academic (Bairds-like) designation.

[Kevin]

When I see professional or service organizations (which I have belonged to or currently belong to several of these things) I can clearly distinguish between them and a fraternity such as Sigma Nu.

Sigma Nu calls upon its members to be first and foremost loyal to the brotherhood of Sigma Nu. Brothers are called upon to put their fraternity above ALL other associations and make it a life committment.

I may be going out on a limb here and it may be different for someone at another school but from what I've seen APO, CKI, SAI, etc do not ask this of their members.

If a woman is a Delta Zeta and an SAI she will be first and foremost a Delta Zeta and THEN she belongs to SAI.

Personally I don't think being "greek" is a very exclusive term. If you think you are greek than you are right.

To be "greek" is only defined when your organization is known.

I personally think that anyone that makes the lifelong committment to a 'general' fraternity such as Sigma Nu then they are going against their organization (and in my opinion are traitors) if they make that same pledge to ANY other organization.

Hopefully that doesn't offend anyone but that's the way I see it.

LHT
Kevin
MT #5
University of Central Oklahoma

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ktsnake
When I see professional or service organizations (which I have belonged to or currently belong to several of these things) I can clearly distinguish between them and a fraternity such as Sigma Nu.

Sigma Nu calls upon its members to be first and foremost loyal to the brotherhood of Sigma Nu. Brothers are called upon to put their fraternity above ALL other associations and make it a life committment.

I may be going out on a limb here and it may be different for someone at another school but from what I've seen APO, CKI, SAI, etc do not ask this of their members.

I would have to say that Phi Mu Alpha does, indeed, expect this of its brothers.

[TrojanGirl]

Sigma Nu calls upon its members to be first and foremost loyal to the brotherhood of Sigma Nu. Brothers are called upon to put their fraternity above ALL other associations and make it a life committment.

I would have to say that Phi Mu Alpha does, indeed, expect this of its brothers.

I completely agree with you Mystic. Most brothers of Phi Mu Alpha are loyal to the group in the same way I have seen my friends who are in IFC groups are to their GLO. (The sound of all the brothers screaming "Once a Sinfonian, always a Sinfonian" leaves that impression on you.)I think that there needs to be a distinction here.. Groups like QMA, SAI and the like almost fall into a "special interest social fraternity" more than a proffessional or honnor group.I think that if you are a member of Phi Mu Alpha that you cannot be in a another social GLO (am I right MysticCat? You would think living with a Sinfonian I would know these things better!)

TG

[DZTUBAGIRL]

I personally consider SAI to be a greek letter organization becuase as far as I can see you pretty much believe the same things as any other sorority, sisterhood. I although would like it if the music groups would atleast try to be involved with the social groups. I have a friend in Phi Mu Alpha and he acts like they want nothing to do with the social GLO's. I think that is the reason why people do not consider them a social GLO. Another thing that bothers me is at my school in the cafeteria every social GLO has their own table with signs and stuff and the music GLO's do not get one. This does not seem fair to me, but nothing I can do.

Anne Marie

P.S. The SAI's on my campus are awsome and I am thinking about joining in the fall maybe.

[DZTUBAGIRL]

I had a friend that was in Phi MU Alpha and Mu Phi Epsilon ( a professional music coed fraternity) And I had another friend that was in Phi Mu Alpha and Sigma Phi Epsilon at the same time. So I am not really sure how it works.

Anne Marie

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by TrojanGirl

I think that if you are a member of Phi Mu Alpha that you cannot be in a another social GLO (am I right MysticCat? You would think living with a Sinfonian I would know these things better!)

TG

Currently, and legally speaking, our Constitution states that "no man may be considered [for membership in Phi Mu Alpha] who is a member of any other secret national fraternal society in music, nor can he join any such organization so long as he remains a member of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia." I imagine that this will change to a prohibition on membership in any other social/general fraternity if we actually do go through with seeking membership in the NIC, as I have heard is being explored.

Practically speaking, I have known of very few brothers in FMA who also joined another social fraternity. There was only one such in my chapter, and the rest of the brotherhood did not like it -- too apt to lead to divided loyalty.

Give that Sinfonian you live with a "Hail Sinfonia!" for me.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by DZTUBAGIRL
I had a friend that was in Phi MU Alpha and Mu Phi Epsilon ( a professional music coed fraternity)
Anne Marie

Don't know how this could be, unless he renounced his membership in either FMA or MFE. This dual membership would be prohibited by both groups -- see my post to TrojanGirl above.

[The1calledTKE]

My Chapter of TKE has 3 Phi Mu Alpha's as brothers. TKE international has no problem with it because PMA is not reconized as a social fraternity.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by zntke711
My Chapter of TKE has 3 Phi Mu Alpha's as brothers. TKE international has no problem with it because PMA is not reconized as a social fraternity.

I can't speak with regard to any of the other music fraternties/sororities, much less some of the other groups that have been mentioned, but I think that the following generalizations are accurate with regard to FMA:

• FMA was conceived and founded as a social fraternity.
• Over the years, FMA began to define itself more and more as a professional fraternity. Some national leaders pushed the agenda of becoming a thoroughly professional fraternity, although traits of a social fraternity never died out completely.
• Partially as a result of renewed interest in the roots of the Fraternity, partially based on the desires of collegiate members, and partially as a result of Title IX, FMA made the decision in the 1980's to be a social, not a professional, fraternity, and to remove all "professional fraternity" references from governing documents, publications, and the like.
• While FMA is a social fraternity, it is not yet a member of the NIC, so it does not have the same "social footing," as it were, of other general fraternities (such as TKE), nor does it have prohibitions on dual membership except as to other music fraternities.
• The degree to which FMA seems or acts social or professional depends on the specific chapter and campus. Some chapters (including perhaps the one zntke711's TKE brothers belong to) still behave much like a chapter of a professional fraternity, two decades after FMA's rejection of professional fraternity status. Other chapters see themselves as social rather than professional, but like the independence of not being too involved with other social fraternities. Still others act like all the other social, general fraternities on their campuses, participating fully in the inter-fraternity conference, Greek Week, rush rules and requirements, prohibitions on dual memberships, and the like. To some degree, this may also depend on the province, or part of the country, in the chapter is in -- some provinces seem to be more "social" oriented.
• Without a doubt, the national trend is toward FMA as a social fraternity. Again, my understanding is that this may include seeking membership in the NIC.
• All brothers in FMA like to think of FMA as a unique fraternity experience.

That's my take on it, at least.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by ktsnake

Sigma Nu calls upon its members to be first and foremost loyal to the brotherhood of Sigma Nu. Brothers are called upon to put their fraternity above ALL other associations and make it a life committment.

Really? How common is that?

If it is common, why do some socials join other organizations (greek and non) and run for EC positions (president in particular )? Knowing that they can't commit. This is what I mean about non-socials not being taken seriously.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by Dionysus
why do some socials join other organizations (greek and non) and run for EC positions (president in particular )? Knowing that they can't commit. This is what I mean about non-socials not being taken seriously.

There is no reason why a person wouldn't be able to commit to both. During her collegian days, my chapter's Scholarship Advisor was Risk Managment Coordinator for AGD, President for Pi Sigma Phi, and also involved with Order Of Omega. It's all about prioritizing and time management.

[Kevin]

If it is common, why do some socials join other organizations (greek and non) and run for EC positions (president in particular )? Knowing that they can't commit. This is what I mean about non-socials not being taken seriously

While I can't speak for others I know that clubs do not take near the same amount of my time as my fraternity. I'm currently only holding one office outside my fraternity (it's kind of a double office though) as senator for the Public Relations Student Society of America.

I can tell you that I will represent the PRSSA to the best of my abilities. However, if I find I no longer have the time for both organizations, it will be PRSSA that gets dropped.

I've without a doubt (and I've belonged to a few organizations) I've seen more GDI's run for an office and then just not show up or do a horrible job than I've seen greeks.

I'd say that behavior is more reflective upon the individual than it is the system as a whole (even if it is repetative). You'll see non-greeks exhibit the same behavior (they resumé pad also).

If your organization doesn't feel the officers take it seriously, vote them out of office. If not then you must believe that there is no one else that can do as good a job as them.

LHT
Kevin

[FuzzieAlum]

I can't imagine HOW much work someone would have to be putting into their social GLO to have NO time for other organizations! My chapter's constitution required each member to be in at least one other campus organization, and many of us were a lot more involved than that - including people with very big offices.

One of our sisters was a double major (engineering and music) and took double the normal course load. She was an RA in a dorm, a VP in the chapter, and in all sorts of campus musical and musical theater groups. She is just one example, of course, but she was typical of how involved people were - successfully.