Being Gay and Greek

[JonoBN41]

I am gay and joined Lambda Chi Alpha thirty years ago, although I didn't choose to come out until after I graduated. We now have over 600 initiates and I'm the president of our alumni association. Virtually every brother knows I'm gay and yet we still work together to get things done. Only two brothers, who are very religious, say homosexuality is a sin in their minds. And even the three of us get along quite nicely.
The other 600+ couldn't care less whether I'm gay or not. I don't know what the concensus of the active chapter would be regarding a new Associate Member coming out to them today. Every chapter of every fraternity changes every few years regardless.

I do know of a brother at another chapter who was the VP and wanted to come out. I advised him via e-mail the best I could. He was very apprehensive (in his words, 'shaking like a leaf'), but he did it at a meeting. When he was done telling them, the brothers sat there in stunned silence until one stared clapping. Then they all joined in, and finally stood up and gave him a standing ovation. After the meeting, a bunch of them took him out to dinner. I'm not saying this will happen everywhere.

Lambda Chi Alpha is ostensibly a Christian-based fraternity like many others, but we are not clergy by any means. We also have alot of Jewish brothers. A fraternity is not meant to be a religious sect, but rather a brotherhood, and brotherhood transcends many things.

Bigots are a dime a dozen, but a good fraternity is for life.

Good luck.

Jono

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by UNFSigmaChi
I figured this was going to cause a little stir. Some of you guys talk like im a gay hater who's looking for the next matthew shepard to beat up. We have a difference of opinion. Just because I wouldn't want a gay Sigma Chi doesn't mean im a homophob. I may not approve of their lifestyle but its their thing, im not going to hate them because of it.

For the last statent, I applaud you. I still draw contention with your belief that its a lifestyle. But thats a societal view, shared by others as well.

I just don't feel they deserve to be in my fraternity is all. So unless your a sigma chi you can't tell me im wrong.

sorry you feel attacked. That wasnt my intent at all. Opinions arent right or wrong, they are opinions, and have no inherent value. Just like the sky, its not right or wrong, its just there. But by your above statement, you say that you are really only willing to debate the issue with other sigma chis. I could assume this is beacuse you would like to delve deeper into the teachings of your org, which dont belong on a public board. I can respect that. But I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if you debated the issues with a broad cross section of your brothers and alumni, you just might find that their opinions mirror those on this board. I would encourage you to facilitate that debate the next time the opportunity affords itself. All parties could only learn from the debate, and isnt that how we all grow and become better memebrs of our orgs and society?

Your not going to change how I feel on this matter either. You say im wrong but what makes you think your not wrong????

I dont think anyone can change anyones opinions online. I have been debating in an attempt to understand why you believe what you believe. You put it out there, so I have the right to question it. I like the debate. As several people have said before, this is the first good debate on GC in some while. At least its diffent from the usual "what sorority is best on your campus" debate we often see here.

And don't say that being diverse in race and sexual orientation is the same thing because its not.

In a previous post, you said:

Hey, i think im going to stop being gay from today on cause you can't. ....You can repent and apologize for doing something detremental, but like I said you can't say, "Hey im sorry for being gay, I won't do it again."

How can you acknowledge that its something a person cant change, yet still say its not descrimination and its not the same as race issues, which is about the belief that it is of "something someone is unable to change;" race, gender, sexual orientation, nationalilty, place of birth, or disability.

I like what damasa said about it as diversity as well.

I would like to state for the record, that I am not a political correctness type person. I am actually republican,and quite conservative. I used to believe diversity was not important, then moved to south texas where no race is a large majority. Saw how groups from many backgrounds had to work together to get anythig accomplished. It was quite cool, and wouldnt trade my experiences for the world.

As for me I just believe that, while I havent been through your ritual, just my own, I believe that we (as greeks) have a lot of simular traits and have more in common than not. People of many different walks (including gays) have a place at the greek table, and within our organizations. 50 years ago people were raising the same objections about minorities and non-christians entering our orgs, and not only did it not destroy us, it greatly imporved us as orgs.

While you work with some gay dudes, and I dont know what they are like, please dont make the same mistake I did and assume that all gays are the same. They are just like you and me, and more often than not, you cant tell. I would hate for any of the following things happen to you or any greek house; 1. Theres a rumor or suspicion that a PNM is gay. A house passes him up and he wasnt. All parties miss out then. 2. A house passes on a PNM whom they know is gay, he joines another house and becomes one of the best brothers they have - student leader, great brother, etc. Then you miss out. Finally 3, You have a current brother come out and his friends and brothers turn their back on him, or you have a current brother live his life in fear, knowing hes different, hearing statements thrown around, hating himself because he knows he is what his best friends and brothers think doesnt deserve to be in the fraternity. To me, thats fear and hatred. And it destroys people. Thats the absolute LAST thing we as greeks stand for.

[DeltAlum]

To quote UNFSigmaChi:

"I just don't feel they deserve to be in my fraternity is all. So unless your a sigma chi you can't tell me im wrong. Your not going to change how I feel on this matter either. You say im wrong but what makes you think your not wrong???? And don't say that being diverse in race and sexual orientation is the same thing because its not."

So what's wrong with that? A lack of reason or reasons.

Words like "they" and "deserve" as used in the first sentence above are indicative of the attitude that bothers me. I believe that they show a basic lack of respect. Perhaps they aren't meant to, but they do to me.

When I was trained as a diversity instructor for a national television network, we were taught by definition that diversity includes race, religion, national origin, age, gender and sexual orientation, among other things. Are they the same things? Maybe not, but they're still part of diversity.

Do I have to be a member of Sigma Chi to understand that some people may be misinformed or possibly incorrect? I don't think so.

A chapter may decide not to include gay members if they want to, but no matter how you look at it, that's discrimination -- just as surely as if it chose not to include blacks or Asians or other identifiable group. No matter what the reason -- religious or otherwise.

I'm not interested in changing his mind. I don't have the time or energy for that. I simply don't like what appear to me to be irrationalities in the argument.

Finally, the contraction for "you are" is "you're" -- not "your." Am I being picky? Well, it is part of our language. You're entitled to your opinion on that. See, there is a difference.

[phikappapsiman]

I hope that I can be helpful here...

In my fraternity, we have had guys who have "come out" after pledging and after initiating. It was hard, because we didn't want to become known as "the gay fraternity", and we all know how important image is on any campus. But rather than run from the issue, we decided to discuss it as adults and as college students. We actually had a speaker come in to our house who made a fictional movie about his experience as a closeted SAE while he was in school. He was the popular guy with a "secret" (God, that SO sounds like a Lifetime movie!). The movie is called "Defying Gravity" and it is available at www.wolfevideo.com. Afterwards, he talked about what it was like to be in the closet at school, and how afraid he was that his brothers would not accept him. My own personal thought is that your sexuality is your business, and that who you choose to be with is between you and that person (or persons). As long as you love yourself, then being gay or even being in a GLO is no big deal-college is still great without it. Just don't compromise who you are and be unhappy for four or more years just because you want to "Go Greek". Be yourself, because college life is only a SMALL part of your whole life, and you'll still be able to make lifelong friends no matter if you are in a GLO or not, and that is what really matters. By the way, I know that it really matters where you are located in terms of your openness (let's face it, if you are in the South or in a small town-then it's going to be difficult).

GOOD LUCK!!!!

[queequek]

I don't have the experience yet, as we don't have openly gay members in our charge but I believe the situation also depends on where you are pledging.
For some "liberal" states, like New York or California, being gay and greek is acceptable. It will be different for some Greek houses in more "traditional" states to pledge gay.

About being gay and having big white cross pin on the chest, I don't think that matters. Hey, Christians are for everyone, and if you believe in Jesus, and you're gay, so what? Can you proudly shown both on you? Christians started from one group (race), and now, you can see every ethic groups, including whites (and gays!), believe and accept Jesus as their savior.

Personally, I encourage everybody to go Greek, gay or straight. Like everyone else mentioned, Greek is not all about sex orientation, nor religion.

Just my .2 cents

[Tom Earp]

LexiKD, no I cannot explain my post as it was kind of a thing between a Brother and myself who I have come to respect and revere as a Brother and a Freind!

While I had to explain the Bull Rider thing last night to him, He Said Ah Ha I see!

That is also a private thing, sorry!
I still respect him as a Brother and a Man who is and will be my friend!

As you may know some of my posts are disjointed, Some for some strange reason understand them!

But,-------! Hell lost train of thought!

See one day you to will get Mature ( I do not use old )!

I cannot explain why One of my Brothers is Gay any more than I can explain Why some of My Brothers are Black!

They are themselves and are still my Brothers, Come Hell Or even High Water!

They are People. If you think the Lesbians are Different than Gay Guys DA!

Many thought that the Deciples were Gay cause they Hung with a long bearded and long haired guy!
Sound familiar?


J nice post Bro!

Love Ya Man!

[LexiKD]

Got it Tom! Sorry for the confusion....

[Tom Earp]

LexiKD. Still love ya sweety!

I have been damn dissapointed that KD left my campus after 2 years! I thought they had a good chance of making it on a tuff Campus!

Hell, I dont know what happened and neither di the Greek Advisor, well she is living with a Sig Ep. Tells it all for me!

I hope they come back and look once again!

[LexiKD]

Although I would love to think KD can and will make it everywhere...it all boils down to membership selection and alum support. Sometimes it is't meant to be!

Too bad I guess, but thanks!

Our LXA are pretty cool at ECU, they have been a little weak some years back (house was falling apart) but are working on their house and have pledged some great guys...at least that is what I hear, I'm so far away I get bits of info! They were always a top group!

[phikappapsiman]

Originally posted by queequek

For some "liberal" states, like New York or California, being gay and greek is acceptable. It will be different for some Greek houses in more "traditional" states to pledge gay.

Now see, that is a generalization that is not necessarily true. I live in California, and I attend a University that is very conservative, upper-middle class Anglo-Saxon, Republican types. Basically, it's very white and rich. And I'm neither! But we have gay brothers in my fraternity and in others as well. They are not all out, but apparantly those who know, know. But it depends on the TYPES of students that attend that particular school. For instance, Duke and Vanderbilt and the University of North Carolina are in the South, and they may be as "liberal" as most California schools, because of the types of students that attend (primarily a large national base). And a school like the University of California at Berkeley, which has a large Greek community, and is known as a "Very Liberal" school-there is NO way a out homosexual could join one of the more popular fraternities-probably not at USC or UCLA either. So I really feel that the type of school (public versus private, small liberal arts college versus a school with a larger population) makes a difference. And believe me, I don't think a time will EVER come when it's looked upon as "acceptable" to pledge gay. Brothers will tolerate it, but that it the LAST bastion of acceptability in fraternity life. We can have a brother of another race, religion, ethnicity, anything else and accept that, but not homosexuality. We'll put up with it if we have to, to be politically correct, but privately, almost all brothers would probably say NO WAY if asked to answer truthfully about having an openly gay member.

[queequek]

Originally posted by phikappapsiman


Now see, that is a generalization that is not necessarily true. I live in California, and I attend a University that is very conservative, upper-middle class Anglo-Saxon, Republican types.

Well, I guess I really made a general assumption here. Hey, phikappapsiman, do you go to Stanford, I assume? How's the Greek System there?

[TriSigmaTX]

Originally posted by UNFSigmaChi
"And by living that kind of lifestyle goes against a lot of what Sigma Chi stands for."

Sigma Chi, all due respect to your personal beliefs. But I'd like to hear your Executive Council's opinions on Gay men in Sigma Chi. Do you know what their stance is? or are you just speaking on your behalf. Because truthfully??? I'm sure the man that started this thread would never consider Sigma Chi (which I'm sure is ok with you)...but also may not consider some other Greek organizations.

I would suggest to everyone to check out their national organizations stance on non-discrimination. Tri Sigma does not discriminate on any basis, does your organization (I'm speaking to all...not picking on you Sigma Chi)? It might be something good to know in this day and age, especially in regards to membership selection.

food for thought.

[showstopper_1908]

From what I've seen there is a "don't ask/don't tell" policy with a lot of the Fraternities I've seen. When asked about the subject, most guys don't seem to care. You run into the "macho" ones who have to throw in, "...as long as he isn't trying to get with me it's cool" (as if you were insinuating anything by speaking of homosexuals). I have run into very few homophobes in the Greek community. If they have those feelings, they keep it bottled up. I personally feel that if a sister of mine is doing her job and bettering herself, the community and the world, she is doing her part. Her sexual orientation doesn't concern me.

[phikappapsiman]

Originally posted by queequek


Well, I guess I really made a general assumption here. Hey, phikappapsiman, do you go to Stanford, I assume? How's the Greek System there?

Yeah, I do...Stanford is not a real "Greek" school. We have 6 housed fraternities, 3 housed sororities, 5 unhoused fraternities, 3 unhoused sororities, 3 BGLO fraternitiess, and 2 BGLO sororities. It used to be big up until the 70's, when I guess that it wasn't "cool" to be in a GLO. And it has never recovered. Our Residential Education Department is really anti-greek, because of all of the negative sterotypes about GLO's (that we are racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-women, you know the rest). So, it's almost impossible for a new chapter to come onto campus, and once one is kicked off for whatever reason, it's gone for good. Some of the "big" fraternity houses are really into image and getting the "right" members (SAE's got Fred Savage of "The Wonder Years" and I think that Tiger Woods went to Sigma Chi before he left Stanford), but really, there are other row-type houses that offer just as much to to to some people that they figure, "Why go Greek"? The Bay Area is SO expensive in terms of off-campus housing that almost all undergraduates choose to live on campus (Hell, even Chelsea Clinton lived on campus all of her time here, although I don't think that she joined a sorority). All in all, we will never be confused with a big state school where either you "Go Greek, or don't go", but those of us in the Greek system enjoy it.

[Pi Kapp 142]

Well, we do have one openly gay brother in our chapter ( we are in SF for goodness sake!) Supposedly some of our founding fathers of our chapter were gay, but that has not been confirmed for me. Some brothers have a problem with it, other do not. What I want to know is if it is acceptable to date other brothers or not?