Will the Greek world ever desegregate?

[SoTrue1920]

Originally posted by dzrose93

If someone had attempted to gain membership into a BGLO and failed (for whatever reasons), publicly proclaimed that they feel they were excluded from joining an NPHC sorority because they were white, and then attempted to go through your intake process again -- wouldn't you be a little skeptical as to their reasons for doing so?

No, because I've seen it happen personally. I took it as a person who was misjudged by a few people who were narrow-minded and threatened the first time. When they saw the girl come around the second time, it seemed (to the people in question) that she was really sincere about becoming a member of this particular NPHC sorority, and if anything, they were less suspicious of her actions since she didn't give up.

I think Melody Twilley did the right thing; rather than just accepting her first dismissal as "racism" and then giving up, she asked questions. She thought about the reactions she got when she went through rush. She weighed the good experiences against the bad, and went back a second time. To me, that's not the mark of a troublemaker, or someone out to prove a point. From where I'm sitting, that's the mark of someone who wanted to make absolutely certain that her ethnicity wasn't the main reason for her dismissal.

I wish I'd had the guts to do that back when it happened to me as an undergraduate. Yes, I went through something similar at my alma mater. Maybe that's why I feel differently about this whole Twilley thing, because I can see where she's coming from.

[VirtuousErudite]

I just had to chime in on this issue. As an African American student attending a very large predominantly white state university in the south I witness rascism on many levels. I have clearly witnessed rascism within the greek system and I can honestly believe that Melody Twilia was not given a bid because of race.

Just fyi on my own campus an African American freshman went through fraternity rush last semster and when he went to pick up his bid he was mysteriously not listed as a person going through the rush process although he did visit all of the houses. Having personally spoken with this young man and trying to console him I ask him why he decided to go through that process and he told me that he just felt he would fit in best with them. When our spring rush came around in January this young man attempted to rush again and began visiting houses to be beaten up by several members of one of the fraternities on our campus during the second nite of spring rush. This young man was beaten and called names. So much for race not being a factor in membership........................................ ...

[ENDROAD]

As an African -American prospective I can HONESTLY say that the answer to the ORIGINAL topic of this thread is NO FREAKIN WAY will NPC/IFC/NPHC orgs ever be 50/50. Why would we even want them to be?

My college experience includes originally attending a predominately white institution in the South. I honestly considered joining a GLO I even watched them the first year they had "rush." I thought it was hilarious. Everybody running around all painted and smiley face. I was like WTF! One of my friends asked if I would like to attend their Rush with her. I love this girl but I had to make a decision at that time and I decided to tell her NO.

Later I transfered to a HBCU in the South and found a whole different world. My accent and mannerisms were seen as unique. I was accepted and very popular. I know I am attractive but at my predominately white instititution girls who looked liked me where everywhere. At my HBCU I was unique. Don't get me wrong I am not insinuating I was popular because of my looks. I am also pretty nice most of the time, outgoing and talented. I made these points to say that my "comfort zone" was expanded outside of the Black Student Association on my predominately white campus where that was the only place I felt totally at ease. It is funny but my husband says when I talk to my "white" friends on the phone my "accent" gets heavier "hey girl" versus when I talk to him or my black friends I am like "wassup girl." I guess it is true.

The NPHC org I am interested in joining like all the other greek orgs has a very in-depth history. My point is that when I read this history I feel an emotional pride for the Black women who forged a way. I would not feel the same way for the members of a GLO. Some of whom may have been slave owners or true KKK members. I cannot imagine an ethnic person who may want to join a GLO being proud of their founders or predecessors. Not to say that some past NPHC members may have not been a part of some hate group. But history and current events point out that white greek systems were very intergrated with Hate members. I understand that GLOs pledge for the college experience NPHC orgs pledge for LIFE. Ah ha maybe that is why the Rush experience is so different. Me? I am in it for LIFE!!!

As for the point of intergration. I think it is GREAT that their are members who chose to cross those unmarked color lines and go where their hearts take them.

[33girl]

Originally posted by ENDROAD
As for the point of intergration. I think it is GREAT that their are members who chose to cross those unmarked color lines and go where their hearts take them.

ENDROAD - that is exactly what I wanted to say. Being able to do what you want to do is more important than maintaining some percentage.

As far as that UGA article, if I read one more thing saying separate rushes (not that NPHC groups even CALL it rush, for cryin out loud) are a sign of discrimination, I'll scream. I can't wait to hear that APO is discriminating because we hold rush and induction at a different time. That girl who was an AGD sounds like she was just as guilty of discrimination as the ones she accused - she joined because she expected a more diverse and "enlightened" group and when they didn't live up to it she got upset (and I couldn't believe that comment about she couldn't get cut from the "Jewish" sorority because she was Jewish). As far as her being "as much of a minority" as a black woman...sorry honey, but I really don't think so.

[carnation]

I read the article about Alison Davis last night and one thing that bothered me was that she made a big deal about asking the Alpha Gam sisters if she was going to be exposed to Christian practices there. Huh? I wouldn't go to the rush of a predominantly or historically Jewish sorority and say, "Y'all aren't gonna be displaying any Stars of David around here, are you?"

[SAEguy]

When I pledged SAE and had my formal pledgeship I didnt pledge for college......SAE is for life. While what you said about alot of GLO's being founded by people who might have been slave owners, or members of the KKK has truth to it thats no reason a person shouldnt join if it has the values they find to be correct (i.e. The Perfect Gentlemen). You cant change the past you can only learn from it. SAE was the first fraternity founded in the "deep south", even though it has a racist background we dont let that affect our rush. We had a rush party at which one of the rushees was black, and nobody treated him any diff. we all tried to get to know him along with the rest equally. What I'm saying is, just because it may have started in the wrong direction dont let it become stagnant, change it for the better.

[VirtuousErudite]

Originally posted by 33girl


ENDROAD - that is exactly what I wanted to say. Being able to do what you want to do is more important than maintaining some percentage.

.

I totally agree people should be able to go where they feel most comfortable, but unfortunately where you think you will be most comfortable you are not always accepted. The young man I referred to in my first post truly felt that he would "fit in best" and be "most comfortable" in an IFC fraternity because he had mostly associated with whites his entire life. Unfortunately, for him and others like him he wasn't welcomed where he felt he had the most to offer.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by ENDROAD
I understand that GLOs pledge for the college experience NPHC orgs pledge for LIFE. Ah ha maybe that is why the Rush experience is so different. Me? I am in it for LIFE!!!

I'm not exactly sure where you got your information, but I can assure you that NPC organizations are for life as well. Whoever told you otherwise is sadly misinformed.

I joined my sorority over 15 years ago and I am just as active now as I was then, albeit now in an alumna capacity.

It does NPC members a disservice to imply that our commitments are not as strong or as deep as those who join NPHC organizations. What's more, it's simply not true.

[12dn94dst]

Before I started posting on greekchat, I also thought NPC/IFC members were only greek for 4 years. Why? Because I heard SO many people say "I WAS an XYZ." It's a misconception just like a lot of people had/have the misconception that the NPHC organizations only accept African Americans. Honestly Tracy, your response of "albeit now in an alumna capacity" indicates that being an alumna member is somehow different from being a collegiate member...like you're in a different organization of some sort and not subject to the same rules.

To answer the original question, our orgs will not get to the point of being 50/50 or 60/40 mainly because we are a subset of our environment. The nation's population is not 50/50 or 60/40...our college campuses are not 50/50 or 60/40. Now maybe one day in the future we people can get over the misconceptions & flat out lies, the prejudices & ignorance we can get to that point. But I honestly don't see it happening in our lifetime.


{thanks for catching the typo Tracy}

Originally posted by ENDROAD
[B] The NPHC org I am interested in joining like all the other greek orgs has a very in-depth history. My point is that when I read this history I feel an emotional pride for the Black women who forged a way. I would not feel the same way for the members of a GLO. Some of whom may have been slave owners or true KKK members. I cannot imagine an ethnic person who may want to join a GLO being proud of their founders or predecessors. Not to say that some past NPHC members may have not been a part of some hate group. But history and current events point out that white greek systems were very intergrated with Hate members. I understand that GLOs pledge for the college experience NPHC orgs pledge for LIFE.

As an black woman in an NPC sorority, I can say that I have the greatest emotional pride for my 11 founders. Slavery was over before they were even born and even if their grandparents or some other relative did, I am not going to hold them or others responsible for something that they might not have agreed with but their ancestors did. As far as them being KKK members...that i dont know but i highly doubt and if they were, I have way to much attachment on my sisters and sorority for what it is now than what it was or might have been in the past. Im sure the NPHC has had members who hate, maybe even a few black panthers (I understand their beliefs but hate is hate)? Having hate in an org. is not restricted to certain groups.
I also agree with what Killarney said, please dont lessen our membership to that extent by saying we arent in it for life. All NIC?NPC/NPHC/ every org is one the basis of LIFE membership/activity. Its up to the individual, whether they want to treat it that way. Sure do we have some that only use it for the college experience? Yes. But your trying to say that there arent any members of the NPHC who dont do the same? I think not and I can name you some.
For Twilley.... i agree it doesnt make her a trouble maker for going through rush 2x or that she was looking for it. Many girls do it, some even three. She has every right too. HOwever, just because she got cut from rush 2x doesnt mean it was because she was black (Im not saying that it wasnt a reason either, in my mind 55% of me says that might have been the reason). Maybe she came off as a bougsie, snotty, uppity girl and it showed both times she went through. Also it gets around who is and who really isnt in rush. If ppl find out you arent really into it, they arent going to be as positive towards you.
As an Alpha Gamma Delta, I do not agree with what our UGA chapter supposedly did. The reason why I say supposedly is because I have heard 2 different versions in published papers coming from different ppl and members. I commend Davis on wanting her sororiy to be diverse (thats why I liked AGD) . I probably would have been upset to f it turned out to be something I thought it was not. However, I agree with 33 when she said Davis is ignorant also when she said she was Jewish and wouldnt get cut from a "Jewish sorority" I'd heard this so many times on my campus and like it did Davis, Itblows up in their face. Instead of whining about it like she did.I would have done something to change it. She just whined to ppl and puted and up and left, didnt try to make things different. In a way I do believe she had an agenda of her own. I cant even fully balme the entire chapter, b/c I dont know what the votes for her to stay were and what the ones for her to go were. For all we know it could have been close 49 stay 51 go. She heard a couple of sisters staying they didnt want her or werent suer abut her b/c of her skin color. OK those are 2 or 3 idiots. What about the rest of her sisters, where they asked what the thought about her? We dont know. Same as before Im not saying race wasnt a factor, but we cant always say it is either b/c of maybe 2 idiots or the situation allow for it. Stuff happens in life because it happens, and theres not always a scapegoat excuse for it. Call me a uncle tom, sell out, whatever. I know who I am and dont care what others realy think of me. I would like to commend the chapter for the advances it is trying to make along trying to help out the UGA system as a whole, even if it is because of an ordeal. Hopefully a lesson has been learned. I would also like to commend Sigma Gamma Rho for extending them a hand showing that sisterhood between Greeks does go beyond the color line. No matter what I am proud to be an AGD and this one thing with one chapter doesnt reflect our org as a whole. Every org has chapters that do stuff others would do or believe in.
Ill say it again, we have to chage ourselves before we can change society. By saying a 50/50 diversity will never happen isnt even giving it a chance. Its starting to happen in some places. Someone said why would we want it to happen anyways... well why wouldnt we want it to happen or at least get it there half way? Lets learn from past experiences and let it be what it is....the past, instead of reliving it and continuing it. PM if you feel the need to throw anger at me. Sorry this is so long but the article pissed me off at everyone involved in the ordeal

[LexiKD]

UMgirl: I do see your points and agree but think 50/50 will be unattainable. I think who ever wants to join a group should have a chance and it cannot be mandated.

Carnation: DITTO, I think that was rude to ask.

Endroad: you don't join NPC for 4 years, it is also a lifetime membership, how else do you think we function. We are only as good as our alumane, who do you think runs the organization, a bunch of 18-22 year old women? I would never say "I was a KD"!

As for the article: too much to say... I would like to see the stats of % of races in NPC, IFC, NPHC. The breakdown would be interesting.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by 12dn94dst
Honestly Tracy, your response of "albeit not (now) in an alumna capacity" indicates that being an alumna member is somehow different from being a collegiate member...like you're in a different organization of some sort and not subject to the same rules.

Hi Kelli!
In my organization (as in all NPC orgs), alumnae chapters and collegiate chapters are two separate entities. One cannot be a member of both at one time. Rather, one is a collegian until they graduate and then they are given alumna status. It is up to the individual if she wants to join an alumna chapter or not but, if not, she is still considered to be a member. An alumna's duties are different those of a collegian. We are still subject to the same rules as far as conduct and keeping financially current, of course, but in my view, being an alumna is a two pronged commitment.

First is the alumnae chapter. Alumnae chapters (I am an officer in mine) which are set up similarly to the collegiate chapters in that we have dues, exec board, meetings, activities, etc. However, we make allowances that our members have job and family commitments outside of the sorority and so we have fewer mandatory activities than the collegiate chapters. That is one aspect of being an alumna.

The other aspect is that we are there to offer guidance to the collegians. Whether as chapter advisors, regional advisors, in a National capacity or even as one of the recent graduates who travels from chapter to chapter for a year. Or even making nametags for rush; whatever! We are expected to share our experiences and wisdom with the collegians and they in turn are expected to pass it on to the next generation. This keeps our organization strong and it instills a sense of history in its members.

I too have heard people say I WAS an XYZ in college and in my opinion that's sad. Because to me being a collegiate member was just the beginning of a fun and satisfying association that I expect to keep for the rest of my life.

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
In my organization (as in all NPC orgs), alumnae chapters and collegiate chapters are two separate entities. One cannot be a member of both at one time.

lol...i know that it would take a BAD A$$ woman to be an alumna & collegiate member @ the same time!

However, we make allowances that our members have job and family commitments outside of the sorority and so we have fewer mandatory activities than the collegiate chapters.

For us in the NPHC it's kind of the opposite. Alumnae chapters work toward the same goals & initiatives as the collegiates. And Alumnae chapters sponsor just as many events as collegiate members. Additionally, the Alumnae chapters have the added responsiblity of being the advisor base for the local collegiate chapters so, in a way, the work load gets a little heavier on the Alumnae level.

Not better or worse...just different.

[LexiKD]

12dn94dst: That is the same with NPC groups, but we do not have the same structure.

KD has over 480 Alumnae Associations that function on different levels. There is not the same structured routine to alum life as there is in college. Our alum are the back bone of our organization, without them we would not have support/HQ/National officers/chapter assistance/Chapter Advisory Boards/House Corps and so on.

Our alumnae do have the same events, we all work with our community, work with Girl Scouts, have an annual Shamrock;all the things our chapters do and it is just as important.

NPHC and NPC has a lot more in common then most like to think.

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by LexiKD
There is not the same structured routine to alum life as there is in college.

there's the difference right there.

the only real difference between a collegiate chapter & an alumnae chapter for the nphc sororities is the undergraduates don't have a degree and the alumnae do. the set up is the same on both levels. all chapters on both levels are subject to the same set of rules, regulations & requirements and are expected to be in attendance at the same sets of meetings at the same times. requirements are not lessened because alumnae have husbands/families because there are undergraduates who have the same. there are alumnae & collegiates represented at all levels of leadership (local, regional & national). we look at the collegiate chapters as a training ground, if you will, for the alumnae chapters...you learn how delta, aka, zeta & sgrho operate so you can carry that knowledge over to your alumnae chapter. based on what i've read on gc regarding npc organizations, alumnae are more support of a collegiate chapter than a functioning unit of the organization just like the collegiate chapter. now, if that's not the case then y'all need to do a better job of portraying that so no one will be mistaken.