Your "Blackness" Questioned?????

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
In terms of unnecessary following, along with a relative being mistreated by law enforcement, I've experienced both.

....same here, I just tried to be all dignified in my presentation for the high-falutin' GC folk.


But seriously,this is a good topic. Thanks for posting the article.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by TonyB06
....same here, I just tried to be all dignified in my presentation for the high-falutin' GC folk.


But seriously,this is a good topic. Thanks for posting the article.

No problem. It was a great topic. I would have liked to seen more depth in the article, but it's a microcosm of what a lot of people who are either in the middle class already or aspire to become a part of face.
I didn't go to a prep school in LoCal, but I was voluntarily bused out of my neighborhood. There were definitely walls between me, the kids in my area, as well as those who rode the bus with me.

[AKA_Monet]

Soror Steeltrap--

I feel yah... And for the other issue, I'm gonna leave it alone because I'd put my foot in my mouth...

For everyone--

There is has been a dichotomy between Africans since the slave ships sailed... The differences between house negroes and the field negroes... This is all one in the same--times may have changed but the mentality--or the cultural asilis developing the utamaawazo's have not... These reactions all of us have experienced and are recalling is the product of what enslavement does to folks. Its effects are practically hardwired into the psyche of people and to be able to be "bi-dialectical" or "trans-racial" or whatever folks call themselves these days, is to be able to cross all boundaries...

The issue is as children... Children are mean sometimes. Especially when they do not understand differences. It is part of their developmental processes to make differences--to have discriminating tastes. If it is not developed, they have severe learning disabilities. It is engrained in the educational system... As educators, we have to understand that aspect of childhood development. Many folks on GC can tell you more than I could. But, I can tell you from my own experiences, if there were trained adults present to teach the children why it is wrong to make judgements on kids who speak differently from them, then many of these issues can be averted. However, kids will tease irregardless of what the issue is... In fact they find ways to tease...

And as sad as it is to say, many kids respond to their environment with harsh, hurtful statements because they are hurting themselves for whatever reason.

On that note, one ought to take pity on an individual that does not appreciate or respect your point of view. It is to be closed-minded. And to reach a spiritual enlightening or re-birth, one cannot be closed new experiences...

How do you explain that to children who come from what they cannot begin to conceptualize? Children from the hood cannot tell you about the beautiful "Aurora Borealis", etc. But they can explain to you what happens to folks who go into "lock down"...

We can choose to highly educated and that is fine. But where we get educated about life can occur worldwide... Just that some folks get educated on the street. And that street knowledge is useful so some purposes...

Believe me, folks ought not alienate those of a lesser god... You never know when you might need them... I was forced to learn that when I was very young and suffered plenty at the hands of "Jack and Jill'ers" because I did not act "bougie" enough... What was done to me by those folks hurt more than being called the "N" word from caucasians or the ghetto-fabulous...

So now, I traverse both paths... Like Rudyard Kipling... "I can walk with kings, but not lose the common touch..."

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by darling1
i was watching c-span one night and a well-known author and washington insider (i forget her name) told a story. she mentioned that she was in a particular building in the south to do an interview and she overheard 2 maids talking. one maid said to the other "isn't that so and so?" the other maid replied with an attitude, "yeah, that's her. she thinks she something special!"

well ms. so and so approached the 2 women and said to the mean one, "excuse me, but i overheard you speaking about me and i just wanted to tell you know that you better hope that i am something special." she walked away an went on to her interview.

i think that is really how we should approach folks who want to be devisive in their comments. address it, brush them off and keep on stepping. eventually somebody will get the memo.

See and I think the author (and the maids) would have been better served if she had responded "excuse me, but I overheard you speaking about me and I just wanted to tell you that you should think you are something special too!"

I think the maid's response came from insecurity (how could someone be so confident? How can someone not be beaten down by life?) while the authors comment was a "I got you told!", even if it didn't come with the head roll and finger snap and served to confirm what the maids were thinking. Sometimes I think if we know better we have to do better.

If the truth be told a whole lotta upper echelon (sp?) Black folks refuse to make eye contact with the folks low on the totem pole when passing them in the hall and only talk to their white colleagues. I'm not saying that if you are the VP of Marketing you need to hang out in the mail room, but what's wrong with saying "Hello" to people and not walking by them like your stuff don't stank?

Plus, a lot of times we do change when we are exposed to other things. For instance, I used to eat pigs feet growing up. Now, one look at them and I get sick to my stomach. A relative I was visiting offered me some one time and I politely declined. She responded "What, you too good for pig feet now?" While I could have gone into a disertation about the lack of nutritional value of pig feet, I knew underlying her comment was a perceived rejection of her and her lifestyle. She was really saying, I think, "Are you too good for me?"

Just a different spin on it....I think it is too easy (not saying you did this darling1) to dismiss the maids in the above story and others like them as mere haters with out determining what made them that way.

[darling1]

Originally posted by Eclipse
See and I think the author (and the maids) would have been better served if she had responded "excuse me, but I overheard you speaking about me and I just wanted to tell you that you should think you are something special too!"

I think the maid's response came from insecurity (how could someone be so confident? How can someone not be beaten down by life?) while the authors comment was a "I got you told!", even if it didn't come with the head roll and finger snap and served to confirm what the maids were thinking. Sometimes I think if we know better we have to do better.

If the truth be told a whole lotta upper echelon (sp?) Black folks refuse to make eye contact with the folks low on the totem pole when passing them in the hall and only talk to their white colleagues. I'm not saying that if you are the VP of Marketing you need to hang out in the mail room, but what's wrong with saying "Hello" to people and not walking by them like your stuff don't stank?

Plus, a lot of times we do change when we are exposed to other things. For instance, I used to eat pigs feet growing up. Now, one look at them and I get sick to my stomach. A relative I was visiting offered me some one time and I politely declined. She responded "What, you too good for pig feet now?" While I could have gone into a disertation about the lack of nutritional value of pig feet, I knew underlying her comment was a perceived rejection of her and her lifestyle. She was really saying, I think, "Are you too good for me?"

Just a different spin on it....I think it is too easy (not saying you did this darling1) to dismiss the maids in the above story and others like them as mere haters with out determining what made them that way.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i hear what you are saying eclipse. when the author told the story that is the first thing i thought of. i personally get sick and tired of people who may not be well off financially or blessed with advanced degrees attempting to make those who have these things bad for their success and accolades. get over it! get off your behind and do something about it.

you are right, there are times in which the haves look down at the have nots; that is unacceptable as well. i just feel that based upon my experience, regardless of your circumstance, you should never give up and allow others to dictate your life. perhaps this thinking may change over time for me, but i know that i come from VERY MODEST MEANS(we was poor) but i was able to excel in school, get the best education available to me, go to a great school, work 10 years paying to get my degree (NO FAMILY SUPPORT) while dealing with a severe illness and i made it; i got that paper! i didn't allow my environment or what society felt about me to dictate my life.

i don't think its easy really to dismiss those maids or people like that. it is hard! some days you have to bite your tongue. why? because arguments or discussions that can come of it may be nothing more than folks going in a circle justifying their positions. i some days lose my patience do deal with it because i know that i don't shun people and i don't feel that i need to justify my blessings to anyone but God.

i think i am kinda ranting here . this issue somedays just hurts my heart and now i am thinking about the fact that i will be bringing a child in a world where he/she may be subject to someone calling them 'white' because of their intellect or looking down on them because of what they may have or not have.

i just pray that i with mr. darling1 are prepared for it.

[Sahara]

I remember talking to a 'friend' about this same thing a while ago. She was saying that when she goes home, people from her neighborhood, her family, and people who went to her HBCU say that she acts white (she's in grad school now).

A few weeks later, she starting saying those same sort of things to me! She started criticizing the movies and TV shows I do and don't watch. She talked about me because I went on a day trip and learned how to snowboard. She even criticized me because I like smoked salmon! WTF

I know what sort of things I will like and I do them, with or without the approval of others. I don't bother with things that I know I won't like, regardless of what others think I should be interested in. I also enjoy trying NEW things to broaden my horizons. I shouldn't have to defend myself because of this.

I shouldn't need to prove that I am black. Though negative experiences are not the test of blackness, I experience racism and prejudice just as much as anyone else. I overcome it. That, I believe, is the true spirit of our race. We have come from the lowest of low and are now in some of the highest places in our society. People who think it is a virtue to stay down and out make a mockery out of the lives and deaths of our ancestors.

Though I experience the negative aspects of being black, I would like to have more experiences of the positive aspects. It is sad when we can't even be supported by our own family.

[Strive]

Great topic.

Blacks have been known to treat each other with disrespect.

It is a shame.

Maybe one day they will learn to realize success is not dictated by color, but by achievement.

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by Strive
Great topic.

Blacks have been known to treat each other with disrespect.

It is a shame.

Maybe one day they will learn to realize success is not dictated by color, but by achievement.

...to be fair, I think all groups do this sort of cultural strafication. I think this thread is just more acute becuase we're discussing "us."

[RedMusiq4U]

Well I've been told that I wasn't black b/c I don't eat chicken on the bone like "all" black people do. Don't get me wrong I eat chicken, mainly boneless chicken sandwiches or if my Mom cooks it on occasions but you should see the eyes bulging out and the gasps that I get when I tell them that. It's a shame when people associate food with your race especially when your own counterparts do it so I guess everyone that's eat chicken is black now.....I think not!

I also want to say (this may be off subject but I feel lead) as a black race ( not all of us but some of us) need to stop living in the days of Willie Lynch. Just b/c you live in a certain neighborhood or your Mom or Dad had a certain job or that you may not be able to afford college that things will always be that way, NO don't settle for less just b/c of your circumstances. "You dream BIG, You think BIG, You do BIG" that's my new motto for this year and for the rest of my life, it seems as if some African Americans aren't motivated to dream and do the necessary things to accomplish those dreams. It starts when your a child, if your child has a dream don't crush it, instead help them find the best way to make it a reality. Please, this is the worst thing you can do: tell your child to be something you wanted to be that's ridiculous, get off your sorry a$$ (that's right a$$) and reach your own goal by doing what you have to do ie. going back to school High School or College or whatever. I'm so sick and tired of hearing the white man this, the white man that and the white man always trying to hold a brotha/sista back BULL$HIT your holding yourself back by being stagnant and lazy. Once people get out of that Willie Lynch mind frame I bet all these dumba$$ questions will cease..........but until then the next time someone tries to question your "blackness" or call you a "sellout" ask them how black are you? DON"T TALK ABOUT IT! BE ABOUT IT!

[nikki1920]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet

Believe me, folks ought not alienate those of a lesser god... You never know when you might need them... I was forced to learn that when I was very young and suffered plenty at the hands of "Jack and Jill'ers" because I did not act "bougie" enough... What was done to me by those folks hurt more than being called the "N" word from caucasians or the ghetto-fabulous...

This is the reason why I have such a hard time with Black folks. I was callled every name under the sun, BY OTHER BLACK PEOPLE!!! I still remember a boy in my third grade class laughing at me b/c my lips were big, and his were WAY bigger than mine.

That kind of hurt never goes away. I'm always consious of what I'm wearing, how I look, what I sound like around other Black people b/c of the criticisms I received from them growing up. And I shouldn't be and I am working on it.

[Rain Man]

...and all the issues people bring to you regarding your blackness will cease to bother you.

BTW, RedMusiq, GREAT POINTS!!

I don't see myself as a black man, but as a Christian man WHO HAPPENS TO BE BLACK. My allegiance is to one person and one person only: JESUS CHRIST. His commandments are to love the Lord with all my mind, heart and strength, and to love my neighbor as myself. Not Black neighbor, but neighbor, as in Black, White, Asian, Latino, etc.

When I made my covenant to live for Christ, it superceded and nullified any other "oaths and promises" I made to any other "foreign" princes or potentates (or words to that effect).

Oh, and BTW, to all those who profess being a Christian and are still struggling with folk questioning your Blackness, just remember, Jesus was persecuted and executed by his own people, and he was a perfect man.

So, I advise you to exercise caution on the people(s) who you profess, align, and claim you allegiance and alliance to.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by nikki1920
That kind of hurt never goes away. I'm always consious of what I'm wearing, how I look, what I sound like around other Black people b/c of the criticisms I received from them growing up. And I shouldn't be and I am working on it.

Preach it, sisterfriend. I went home for the holidays, and I never felt so JUDGED in my whole life -- even by my own family! It's really terrible when one has to feel more "on guard" around her own people than when she's around folks who don't look like her/don't share her cultural experiences.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by nikki1920
This is the reason why I have such a hard time with Black folks. I was callled every name under the sun, BY OTHER BLACK PEOPLE!!! I still remember a boy in my third grade class laughing at me b/c my lips were big, and his were WAY bigger than mine.

That kind of hurt never goes away. I'm always consious of what I'm wearing, how I look, what I sound like around other Black people b/c of the criticisms I received from them growing up. And I shouldn't be and I am working on it.

You know, I'm in the same boat, still, and I turn 40 years old this year! But I can still feel the hurtful comments and the coldness that I had to deal with when I was a teenager. I've worked on it and am still doing so.

[TonyB06]

((((((Steeltrap,Nikki1920, Sistermadly, and others silently co-signing)))))))))))

group hugs to all...

interesting reading. From my GC perch, yall all appear to be well-educated, well-adjusted, professional sistas handling business; surprising to hear that the hurt remains at such depths...

I dunno maybe it's different for guys, we're generally less atuned to our emotions, I guess. For me, I get a sense for whether somebody has my best interest at heart or not. If so, they're welcome to stay and enjoy the show; if not, then they need to agitate the gravel...quickly.

...it ain't as easy as it was in 4th grade when you could just punch em' in the nose. (just a joke. violence is soooo 2003.)

[Jill1228]

Girl, I feel ya! And don't get me started abut how I was dissed because I am a dark skinned sistah. It hurts even more when it is your family members (immediate and extended) giving you grief.

I called my sister out on it many years later and she had the NERVE to say:
"You are still angry about that?"

WTF? You are right...that hurt never goes away. Got therapy bills to prove it

Oh yes, my grandmother jokingly questioned my blackness because I don't like yams or sweet potatoes in any way, shape, or form. Sorry, I never liked them

Sistermadly, preach my sistah! And they wonder why I don't go to many family reunions (besides the fact I am 3000 miles away)

Originally posted by nikki1920
This is the reason why I have such a hard time with Black folks. I was callled every name under the sun, BY OTHER BLACK PEOPLE!!! I still remember a boy in my third grade class laughing at me b/c my lips were big, and his were WAY bigger than mine.

That kind of hurt never goes away. I'm always consious of what I'm wearing, how I look, what I sound like around other Black people b/c of the criticisms I received from them growing up. And I shouldn't be and I am working on it.