question

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by Titchou

But that is ancient history. And it isn't doing anyone any good to come here and spew your venom, complain about things that are decades past and talk as if it's common place now. It isn't. RFM has truly helped the WRCs increase their numbers. I can site many instances but I don't want to call out any specific groups or campuses.

I agree that RFM has helped a significant number of chapters over the years, but there are still WRCs that, despite RFM, are light years away from being equal (in terms of numbers) to other chapters on that campus.

I noticed on Irishpipes' recruitment thread just last week a campus that has several sororities, all but one of which got 20+ new members while the historically WRC on that campus got less than ten. While it may not be commonplace, this situation is still very real and current. It isn't ancient history, and the complaints about the "value" of a bid offered during COB versus bids offered during formal recruitment are legitimate and not simply spewed venom.

If NPC truly wants to provide a level playing field - which I assume was part of the decision to adopt RFM - providing an "out" for women who were offered bids during COB seems to blatantly diminish the value of those bids. Now, I don't want to speak for 33, but I imagine that chapter/situation mentioned above is precisely the type of chapter/situation 33 was talking about. It may not happen on every campus, but it definitely still happens.

[ASTalumna06]

I don't think anyone here was implying that RFM isn't a positive thing.

And I re-read my comment from yesterday and I think I came off kind of snarky and b****y. That's what a few drinks late at night will get me Seriously, there are times that I shouldn't be allowed near a computer…

Sorry if that's how I came across!

Originally Posted by SydneyK

If NPC truly wants to provide a level playing field - which I assume was part of the decision to adopt RFM - providing an "out" for women who were offered bids during COB seems to blatantly diminish the value of those bids. Now, I don't want to speak for 33, but I imagine that chapter/situation mentioned above is precisely the type of chapter/situation 33 was talking about. It may not happen on every campus, but it definitely still happens.

Originally Posted by Titchou

So your answer is to penalize women who accept a COB bid because a few campuses still have not reached parity? There are always going to be places where a chapter struggles. That's just a fact of life. And it isn't always the fault of RFM or recruitment issues per se. Some chapters need to go. Some schools need to decide if they really want Greeks or not. But RFM has done more to level the playing field than anything in the past.

I think the solution is similar to this one:

Originally Posted by Titchou

Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be average chapter size. While that's the preferred number, NPC allows other options. Alabama is going to average chapter size minus 5%.

There should be options.

Not all schools/sororities/chapters are equal. I think the COB/year rule should come with exceptions.

All I'm saying is that it seems crazy that a PNM who goes through formal recruitment can accept a bid and drop on bid day, and she has to wait a full year, while a girl at another campus who hung out with a chapter for weeks on end and received a bid can pledge up until a day before initiation and drop out, and then receive a bid from another chapter a month later.

There has to be a happy medium.

[ladybug12]

Great post Titchou! I agree that RFM is the best! Some of my favorite visits in recents years have been to WRCs that had successful recruitments and pledged quota due to RFM leveling the playing field.

My collegiate experience is the polar opposite of yours...went to small public university with 3 NPC groups...but my 25 years of area and national officer service sounds very much like yours.

[AGDee]

I agree that RFM has been a smashing success for campuses that use it. I also think that changing Total to average chapter size right after recruitment will go a long way toward taking the stigma away from COR.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I agree that RFM has been a smashing success for campuses that use it. I also think that changing Total to average chapter size right after recruitment will go a long way toward taking the stigma away from COR.

^^This. If RFM had been around earlier, my alma mater might not have lost three of the four chapters it lost in the mid-1990s.

[DubaiSis]

Changing total yearly seems to really freak people out, but it really is the last piece of the puzzle to making RFM work correctly. After an initial scary huge change, it should really only be a few women off each year.

[Phigirl04]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Changing total yearly seems to really freak people out, but it really is the last piece of the puzzle to making RFM work correctly. After an initial scary huge change, it should really only be a few women off each year.

This times 100! I think that change is scary (remember when RFM first started) but is necessary to keep sorority life healthy. I'm interested to see long term what impact this has on the number of chapters that close yearly from low numbers.

[Titchou]

Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be average chapter size. While that's the preferred number, NPC allows other options. Alabama is going to average chapter size minus 5%.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be average chapter size. While that's the preferred number, NPC allows other options. Alabama is going to average chapter size minus 5%.

This seems like an excellent choice for such large chapters.

[als463]

Originally Posted by TarheelMom

I've never posted before, but I have a question that hopefully won't show my ignorance about Rush! (I wasn't in a sorority, but my oldest daughter is rushing at UNC now). One of the houses she visited last night must have had a smaller number of members, because several girls from a different college (same sorority) were there helping out. My daughter had a great conversation with the girl she was paired with, but her tee-shirt was a different than a lot of the other sisters. My daughter asked why, and she said she goes to a different university. Is this often done? I understand when a sorority is just starting out at a campus they pull in members from neighboring colleges to help with Rush. But this house has evidently been at UNC for over 20 years. My daughter said she loved the girl she talked to, but she felt like she would have rather met someone that was actually a UNC student. She doesn't really know what to think about this house since she didn't really have a conversation with a member. (She talked to two girls and both were from the other college) Is this a red flag? Hopefully I haven't offended anyone!

Regardless of what the chapter did during recruitment, I wish your daughter the best of luck and hope that she keeps an open mind. Attending UNC Chapel Hill is a great honor and to be Greek at such a great school is even more impressive.

[Titchou]

So your answer is to penalize women who accept a COB bid because a few campuses still have not reached parity? There are always going to be places where a chapter struggles. That's just a fact of life. And it isn't always the fault of RFM or recruitment issues per se. Some chapters need to go. Some schools need to decide if they really want Greeks or not. But RFM has done more to level the playing field than anything in the past.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by Titchou

So your answer is to penalize women who accept a COB bid because a few campuses still have not reached parity? There are always going to be places where a chapter struggles. That's just a fact of life. And it isn't always the fault of RFM or recruitment issues per se. Some chapters need to go. Some schools need to decide if they really want Greeks or not. But RFM has done more to level the playing field than anything in the past.

No, no one said anything about penalizing anyone. I guess I don't see how holding women who accept a bid via COB to the same standards as those who accept a bid via formal recruitment is a penalty. If we tell women that they're bound to their bid for a year, that's what it should be, regardless of how their bids were issued.

I get that some chapters will always struggle, and I agree that RFM has leveled the playing field. But there are ways to even things out in addition to RFM. Valuing all bids the same way seems, to me, a good place to start. Telling women that a formal bid is binding for a year, while a COB bid is binding only until the next formal recruitment doesn't suggest the two types are valued equally.

[DubaiSis]

RFM is a tool, not a panacea. The girls still have to do the work to repair their reputation or whatever the problem is with them achieving parity. With RFM AND their hard work, the system works. The point is one without the other is not enough.

[Titchou]

Of course it penalizes the woman. Say she goes thru FR in the fall and doesn't get a bid for whatever reasons. And according to 33Girl's rules, she is soooo distraught that no one should approach her with a bid for 2-3 months. So it's November and everyone is just going to wait to offer COB bids until January so they can have a normal NM period. So she gets the bid in January and accepts. Come time to initiate in 6-10 weeks (depending) she decides it's not for her. NOW she has to wait until FR of the following calendar year - not that fall. That's penalizing her when it may have been the GLO's fault for not giving her a proper NM period. Sorry, but no one is ever going to get me to buy into that one.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Of course it penalizes the woman. Say she goes thru FR in the fall and doesn't get a bid for whatever reasons. And according to 33Girl's rules, she is soooo distraught that no one should approach her with a bid for 2-3 months. So it's November and everyone is just going to wait to offer COB bids until January so they can have a normal NM period. So she gets the bid in January and accepts. Come time to initiate in 6-10 weeks (depending) she decides it's not for her. NOW she has to wait until FR of the following calendar year - not that fall. That's penalizing her when it may have been the GLO's fault for not giving her a proper NM period. Sorry, but no one is ever going to get me to buy into that one.

I think maybe I'm confused by this example, specifically the part I've put in bold.

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand your point of view..


ETA:

Originally Posted by Titchou

Pardon a couple of shout outs here: 3 cheers for AST for pulling up stakes in Birmingham and moving to Indy where they have more options to co-op programs with the other GLOs who have their HQs there. It's helping them immensely to be able to do that.

In addition, I agree that us moving to Indy was a very smart move. In the 10 years since I was initiated, I've noticed HUGE improvements within our organization. And fortunately for me, I'm in an alumnae chapter with a past National President, our current National President, and many others who have been working within the higher ranks of AST; I feel like I'm able to get a closer glimpse into what we're moving toward in the future, and I like what I've seen so far.