Stolen KKG pins! Please help! Pass this along....

[Estateauction]

I am grateful that I was able to get the post listed above posted before the auction ended. Thanks to all and feel free to discuss the topic. Thanks, Brian from estateauction

[SWTXBelle]

Even 10 years ago, small town police departments had computers. I'm just awaiting word that the report has been "lost". I know! Blame Hurricane Sandy!

My badge was stolen over 20 years ago, and I can still access the police report information through my insurance company, who paid out to replace it.

eta: Well, it's a refreshing change from the usual rush threads that blow up - no helicopter moms, no disappointed pnms, no bitter alumnae.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by Estateauction

Let me introduce myself. My name is Brian from Estateauction on Ebay. I am the person who is selling these pins on Ebay. I have been trying to post this update on Ebay but Ebay does not allow additions to be added within 12 hours of the ending of an auction. I was notified of this board by a fine Ebay member who told me my name was being trashed by some posters. I thanked him and started my own investigation. I can say that GxxU (named hidden) has emailed me twice looking for rare pins and over an hour ago I informed him of my troubles trying to get my message out. I told him I can link the Blood Line of the Spaulding sisters to my other items. I believe GxxU (name hidden) may be the badge guy. If I am wrong please forgive me. As of yet he has not returned my email as I want this information made public. If he did get my mail and did not post it here I find that troubling.

If you reviewed my other auctions you will see that the first groups of pins are in fact related. I was glad to see in his post that the woman missing the two pins said my other items were not related to her burglary. As you will read below one P.E.O. star pin was in fact Gertrude Spaulding Havens. Her name after she was married. Also the badge that did not sell was Alice Spaulding’s husband M.H. Taylor in his younger years. The two other pins ending tonight are Alice’s Husband M.H. Taylor and their son M.H. Taylor Jr. The spoons are also from my purchase. An advanced collector could have easily determined this.

I must thank all of the people who supported me without knowing all of the facts. I clearly listed all of the names on the auctions. The update below was written before I found this chat board. I hope that you will take the time to read my opinion. I feel I am being railroaded and I want to do the right thing. Is my auction being high jacked to benefit someone? I think a museum would be a good place for these pins. I don’t know much about your groups but you are all doing a wonderful job preserving the history of your groups. Below you will read my different scenarios of what may have happened 100 years ago. Again, thanks for all of your support and please follow up with your opinions. Also, I was never asked to stop the auction. I knew I had a link between the pieces and was waiting for more facts.

Many Thanks, Brian from Estateauction


AUCTION UPDATE: A few people were asking me how these pins were acquired. They were purchased through descendents of the original family. Now we are talking over 100 years of genealogy, an account of the descent of a person, family, or group from an ancestor or from older forms. The Spaulding sisters went to college and joined the KKG. A question arose that presented that these TWO pins may have been given away to replace a missing pin that another KKG woman had lost about 100 years ago. Please hang in there with me as I am trying to trace the history of these two pieces.

I have been an antique dealer in New Jersey for over four decades. I enjoy tracking the history of pieces. We must go over some scenarios. The question is did the Spaulding sisters give their TWO original pins away? Did the Spaulding sisters buy replacements pins for the missing pin? If so, did the Spaulding sisters receive replacement pins for the TWO pins they gave away, either purchased for themselves or given to them by others. Did one of the Spaulding sisters or family member later receive the two pins back? These scenarios would have occurred nearly 10 decades ago.

I want to be fair to all KKG collectors and to all of you who have been following this auction. Are these TWO pins the property of the Spauldings? What could link them to the true blood line of descendents? Did the Spaulding descendents regain the ownership of these TWO pins if they were given away? My claim that I purchased them from descendents of the family can be shown in my Ebay auction that just ended. Both of the Spaulding sisters got married. Many of you may have viewed the auction: 14K Gold P.E.O STAR PIN Sorority KANSAS 1919 Gertrude S. Havens MAIDEN SPAULDING. There was not much interest in this piece but it does reveal a direct blood line of the descendents of the family. This pin is about 20 years older than the TWO pins in this auction.

How could they get to New Jersey. The married name Havens were original family founders of the town in the area where these were purchased. I also have other information on the Spauldings. I hope that this information is helpful to those of you who are following this auction.

Just a quick tidbit. Having dealt with many families over the years I cannot recount the number of times that a family member has told me that they have their grandparents’ sterling silver flatware set which is over 100 years old. I am the one who must inform them that the set they had for years is only silver plated. When facts transition over time sometimes the true facts change a bit. That is why I am going over different scenarios which may have occurred.
Thanks so much for reading this new information. Brian from Estateauction

Originally Posted by Estateauction

I am grateful that I was able to get the post listed above posted before the auction ended. Thanks to all and feel free to discuss the topic. Thanks, Brian from estateauction

QFPing just in case this disappears, and I think it's apparent that there are some major discrepancies in what was posted here prior to the Estate Auction owner coming here to present his information.

[WhiteDaisy128]

Well, it's over. $3k later someone has a nice set of pins.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-14K-Gold-K...-/271381636081

[FloridaTish]

I am thrilled that the seller's posting prior to the auctions end was QFP'ed and he was able to give his side of the story and detail how he came into possession of the items in question.

I'd honestly just love to know who won the auction!

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by FloridaTish

I am thrilled that the seller's posting prior to the auctions end was QFP'ed and he was able to give his side of the story and detail how he came into possession of the items in question.

I'd honestly just love to know who won the auction!

That's a STEAL for TWO Kappa keys. ONE usually goes for that amount.

[badgeguy]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

QFPing just in case this disappears, and I think it's apparent that there are some major discrepancies in what was posted here prior to the Estate Auction owner coming here to present his information.

It's a shame that you ladies on here are desperate to believe anything your told if it goes against someone you don't like....

The problem with the sellers information is that his information is a far stretch from the facts as can be found on the internet....

The ONLY person in either of those two sisters who lived anywhere near NJ, was MH Taylor Jr, who in 1958 was attending or teaching at Columbia University in NY.

All of the records found online locates everyone else being from, living in, and dying in Kansas.

As for the Havens family of a NJ town connection....thats sort of true, but you'd have to go back a dozen generations.....BUT, Ernst Frey Havens was born in Leavenworth Kansas, and died there as well....from what I can find from census records, Gertrude was divorced from Ernst sometime prior to 1920, as she is listed in the census' of 1920, 1930, and 1940 as not being married with no children......she died in 1948.

Alice Taylor and her husband Melvin Hall Taylor also lived in Lawrence Kansas as late as 1958. I don't know if the had any other kids besides MH Jr.

So, the FACTs are this, my friend whose Grandmother was a Kappa had been given pins from her relatives who were related to the Spauldings. I do not know what year all this happened, as I never got the exact details from my friend. But two pins (exactly like the ones that sold) had been in his family for years as they were handed down to her mother and then to her because she didn't have any sisters. Then in the late 1990s their home was burglarized and a ton of stuff was stolen, including a box of jewelery which contained all of their Fraternity and sorority jewelery. Where those items ended up no one knows, but when this auction popped up....it have them hope because those pins they feel are the pins that were lost and they have hope that maybe with these their other badges might be still existing....hoping to get all these items back.

The sellers "last minute" posting to "cover his arse" seems a little bit funny. I not saying anything to point to this seller being the one who had anything to do with a theft, not do I believe he had any knowledge that these pins "may" have been stolen. But I do doubt where he got these, and think he is trying to connect the dots using an internet search but the dots just don't really connect to any reason for these pins to end up in NJ...when all the ties to these pins all point to Kansas.

I am willing to admit that there is a chance that the Spaulding sister did indeed have two sets of pins made, I guess that may have been a practice...

For those of you who kept asking....this should be a lesson to us all...the police report that was filed from that theft was not detailed and only listed the largest items stolen, TV, stereo, and computer....jewelry and other smaller items were not. As for insurance, unknowingly, they did not have any of their F&S jewelry insured, as it was seen as a necessity, so there was no Ins re-imbursement.

As for the police report, the official copy which is not readily available and has to be ordered to make a photocopy takes several days. The copy as given to the family can have pages added detailing all items lost, but that's not official according to the police. Also, the info they were told was that after so many years the police purge old files and only keep on record (eventually to be digitalization) are the basic info sheet, not any attached sheets.
The same goes for insurance claims as after so many years they also purge older documents.

So, the basic case is this....I was trying to help out a friend who firmly believes that these pins came from their box of pins that was stolen, and now it's purely a game of he said/she said......

I know that I have now learned a huge lesson about making sure everything into home is well documented and that if I or anyone ever finds themselves in a similar situation....Make sure you have all the proper documentation!!

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

It's a shame that you ladies on here are desperate to believe anything your told if it goes against someone you don't like....

The problem with the sellers information is that his information is a far stretch from the facts as can be found on the internet....

The ONLY person in either of those two sisters who lived anywhere near NJ, was MH Taylor Jr, who in 1958 was attending or teaching at Columbia University in NY.

All of the records found online locates everyone else being from, living in, and dying in Kansas.

As for the Havens family of a NJ town connection....thats sort of true, but you'd have to go back a dozen generations.....BUT, Ernst Frey Havens was born in Leavenworth Kansas, and died there as well....from what I can find from census records, Gertrude was divorced from Ernst sometime prior to 1920, as she is listed in the census' of 1920, 1930, and 1940 as not being married with no children......she died in 1948.

Alice Taylor and her husband Melvin Hall Taylor also lived in Lawrence Kansas as late as 1958. I don't know if the had any other kids besides MH Jr.

So, the FACTs are this, my friend whose Grandmother was a Kappa had been given pins from her relatives who were related to the Spauldings. I do not know what year all this happened, as I never got the exact details from my friend. But two pins (exactly like the ones that sold) had been in his family for years as they were handed down to his mother and then to him because she didn't have any sisters. Then in the late 1990s he and his wife's home was burglarized and a ton of stuff was stolen, including a box of jewelery which contained all of their Fraternity and sorority jewelery. Where those items ended up no one knows, but when this auction popped up....it have them hope because those pins they feel are the pins that were lost and they have hope that maybe with these their other badges might be still existing....hoping to get all these items back.

The sellers "last minute" posting to "cover his arse" seems a little bit funny. I not saying anything to point to this seller being the one who had anything to do with a theft, not do I believe he had any knowledge that these pins "may" have been stolen. But I do doubt where he got these, and think he is trying to connect the dots using an internet search but the dots just don't really connect to any reason for these pins to end up in NJ...when all the ties to these pins all point to Kansas.

I am willing to admit that there is a chance that the Spaulding sister did indeed have two sets of pins made, I guess that may have been a practice...

For those of you who kept asking....this should be a lesson to us all...the police report that was filed from that theft was not detailed and only listed the largest items stolen, TV, stereo, and computer....jewelry and other smaller items were not. As for insurance, unknowingly, they did not have any of their F&S jewelry insured, as it was seen as a necessity, so there was no Ins re-imbursement.

As for the police report, the official copy which is not readily available and has to be ordered to make a photocopy takes several days. The copy as given to the family can have pages added detailing all items lost, but that's not official according to the police. Also, the info they were told was that after so many years the police purge old files and only keep on record (eventually to be digitalization) are the basic info sheet, not any attached sheets.
The same goes for insurance claims as after so many years they also purge older documents.

So, the basic case is this....I was trying to help out a friend who firmly believes that these pins came from their box of pins that was stolen, and now it's purely a game of he said/she said......

I know that I have now learned a huge lesson about making sure everything into home is well documented and that if I or anyone ever finds themselves in a similar situation....Make sure you have all the proper documentation!!

...

[badgeguy]

Oh, just in case anyone tried to point a finger...I was not in anyway trying to "rig" this auction nor did I have any bids placed on these pieces!! In fact, I feel that maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut.....

Lesson learned! And I hope none of you on here ever have something like this happen to you.....

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Oh, just in case anyone tried to point a finger...I was not in anyway trying to "rig" this auction nor did I have any bids placed on these pieces!! In fact, I feel that maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut.....

Lesson learned! And I hope none of you on here ever have something like this happen to you.....

Well then this whole mess has been worth it, hasn't it?

[AZTheta]

There is more to this story, much much much more. Else I'd not see the need to QFP, screen shot, and otherwise preserve this thread. Surely you know that about me by now.

Cue the Stones: "this may be the last time…"

ETA: "oh what a tangled web we weave" also comes to mind.

[badgeguy]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

There is more to this story, much much much more. Else I'd not see the need to QFP, screen shot, and otherwise preserve this thread. Surely you know that about me by now.

Cue the Stones: "this may be the last time…"

ETA: "oh what a tangled web we weave" also comes to mind.

Oh, really? Please do tell....I'd love to know what more to this story you might think you know.

It is odd that the seller "was notified about this site by an eBay member" and gee it seems coincidental that YOU were there the moment the seller joined, posted, then immediately banned....just long enough for YOU to get the screen shot....hmmm

I'd love to hear the rest......

[SWTXBelle]

I guess Barney Fife was the officer who handled the case . . .

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Oh, really? Please do tell....I'd love to know what more to this story you might think you know.

It is odd that the seller "was notified about this site by an eBay member" and gee it seems coincidental that YOU were there the moment the seller joined, posted, then immediately banned....just long enough for YOU to get the screen shot....hmmm

I'd love to hear the rest......

Nice try. Fail at connecting dots, once again. Fail at trying to cast shade on someone else to divert attention from your own malfeasance. Now be careful what you ask for. You still haven't learned your lesson.

Originally Posted by badgeguy

It's possible....who knows with those small town southern PDs.....

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Sadly, your that's not true. The police report is there, it's just incomplete in regards to what all was stolen, and what was apparently damaged to the house...the thing to learn from this is that make sure if you are ever burglarized, you gotta make sure all the t's are crossed and all the I'd are dotted.

It's a shame because not only is one victimized from the original theft, but if the paperwork is incomplete then, if any of your stuff turns back up, you can become a victim all over again......

We all know you have to have the last word. Even when it is painfully apparent that you are in the wrong. Please, go for it. Don't let us down. We're enjoying our popcorn.

[badgeguy]

It's possible....who knows with those small town southern PDs.....