Why are recs absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others?

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Considering some discussion on another thread – I was wondering – why are recommendations absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others (acknowledging that member selection policies vary among chapters)?

Before reading on this site, I assumed that recs were usually submitted prior to recruitment at just about every school (acknowledging that the recruitments at some of our universities would be considered ridiculously over-the-top by the majority of other Greeks nationwide).

I know a mom whose daughter is planning to attend Wash U next year, and mom assumes (as would I) that her daughter will need to have several recs per chapter, and that this would best be completed by summer’s end if possible (rush is deferred there). I just checked Wash U’s site, and didn’t find any info for PNMs regarding recs (or a colorful 50-page pdf on the fundamentals of recruitment and fashion, either ). Perhaps recs are not a part of the recruitment culture or expectation there (?) – the only other girl I know of there now isn’t in a sorority.

I guess my actual question is . . . if chapters at schools outside of the must-have-recs list are able to recruit wonderful pledge classes full of accomplished and felony-free young women, are alum-generated and endorsed recs really necessary? Or do we just do this because we have always done things this way?

Just food for thought. Don’t get me wrong, I still see the value of personal recommendations, but a lot has changed in regard to transmission of information, social networking, numbers of legacies, and OOS campus populations in the last three decades or so (at my own school anyway). I can't imagine that alum-endorsed recs will become obsolete anytime in the near future, but I’d be interested in knowing how PNM info is gathered/handled by chapters at schools where recs are not expected (not intended to tread on membership selection info).

*If any PNMs are reading, by all means heed the “ Schools where you absolutely positively need recs” thread:
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=112718

*** And if anyone has any advice on recs (or recruitment in general) at Washington University, please post (I did search the “schools where you must have recs” thread and the forum search, but didn’t see a search result concerning recs at Wash U).

BTW, I haven't been through the recruitment process at WUSTL. Next January will be my first time working a WUSTL recruitment. The official position of Panhel, though, is that recs aren't required. My impression is that recruitment at WUSTL is more Midwestern and Northeastern than SEC. Mizzou is very SEC. WUSTL not so much. Recs can't hurt, but I wouldn't stress about not having two per group and I wouldn't stress if I missed one group entirely. If you are looking for help getting recs, you might also contact the St. Louis Alumnae Panhellenic Association or one of the alumnae groups for the sororities on campus. I'm sure that someone local would be happy to meet with her in the fall and look over her resume and probably give her a rec.

Info here: http://glo.wustl.edu/Pages/Joining.aspx

You can also contact the Greek Life office and double-check with them. They're really helpful people. I really like the GLO staff at WUSTL.
http://glo.wustl.edu/Pages/Contact-Us.aspx

[Titchou]

MaryPoppins - you'll love this story. Last fall I was in Tuscaloosa with a sorority sister who went to MS State. Typical MS gal. I made a wrong turn and ended up on a one way street going in the wrong direction! Just as I pulled over to determine if I could make a u turn, here comes a police car. As my friend and I were gabbing away at the polite young man in the car about how sorry we were and I about how the town had changed so much from when I was in school and this road didn't used to be one way, etc, etc, he pipes up and says that it sure had changed. He was "from around these parts" and things sure had changed as the campus grew (as he chewed his wad of tobacco!). He happened to mention his family name at which point I said, in the most southern belle voice I could muster, "then you must know my uncle, Dr.......!" To which he replied " Doc ........ is your uncle?!?! Well, gosh, that makes ...... your cousin!" Well, blessed be, I jumped on that with " You know, she was named after my mama. My mama's name was ..." So then he was kind enough to direct me to the end of the block where I could make a correct turn and get back to Birmingham "all in good order" while he stood watch. Mr friend from MS said - "that sounded just like you were from MS!" We laughed all the way back to Birmingham.

[MaryPoppins]

Titchou, that is too cute! You may have heard that the most valuable export of Mississippi is brains, and so everywhere I have ever lived, I have always been able to find someone who knew someone from back home: D.C., San Francisco, Mobile, New Orleans, and of course Memphis.

[atrianglepi]

I have a daughter currently at an SEC school. She served on her Recruitment Committee. They have tried lengthening recruitment for the last 2 years to help with retention numbers. It actually had the opposite result and there was a lot of back lash. This fall they will shorten it. As far as RECs go, I agree that at most of these large recruitment schools, it is a check off on a box. It does not guarantee anyone an invitation to the second round. Both my daughters have had wonderful, personal RECs that didn't mean squat once recruitment started.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by atrianglepi

I have a daughter currently at an SEC school. She served on her Recruitment Committee. They have tried lengthening recruitment for the last 2 years to help with retention numbers. It actually had the opposite result and there was a lot of back lash.

From rushees, sorority members, the school, or all of the above?

[atrianglepi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

From rushees, sorority members, the school, or all of the above?

PNM were given a survey regarding the recruitment process. They were not happy with the timeline. One week between 3rd round and Pref. Apparently PNM's were regretting the way they ranked their choices. Frankly that sucks for everyone. How do you impose the silence rule during a week of classes? Ultimately, this fall it came down to the Religion of the SEC, Football. A home football game is to be held during the weekend that was to be Pref/ Bid Day. How do you maintain silence during tailgating, the game etc.? They decided to shorten the whole process to preserve the sacred Football game.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by atrianglepi

PNM were given a survey regarding the recruitment process. They were not happy with the timeline. One week between 3rd round and Pref. Apparently PNM's were regretting the way they ranked their choices. Frankly that sucks for everyone. How do you impose the silence rule during a week of classes? Ultimately, this fall it came down to the Religion of the SEC, Football. A home football game is to be held during the weekend that was to be Pref/ Bid Day. How do you maintain silence during tailgating, the game etc.? They decided to shorten the whole process to preserve the sacred Football game.

Terrible! Why not start recruitment earlier then? I understand university housing may not want to open earlier, but they might and other people can sign off campus leases earlier, stay in hotels, etc., if they want to join badly enough.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by atrianglepi

PNM were given a survey regarding the recruitment process. They were not happy with the timeline. One week between 3rd round and Pref. Apparently PNM's were regretting the way they ranked their choices. Frankly that sucks for everyone. How do you impose the silence rule during a week of classes? Ultimately, this fall it came down to the Religion of the SEC, Football. A home football game is to be held during the weekend that was to be Pref/ Bid Day. How do you maintain silence during tailgating, the game etc.? They decided to shorten the whole process to preserve the sacred Football game.

So you're saying that round 3 comes immediately before pref? No rounds in between? If so...

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the time between parties should be extended, but rather, that there should be more time given to parties. Or more rounds. The point is to try and give the active sisters more time to get to know the PNMs, and vice versa - not to drag things out just for the sake of dragging them out.

Your situation seems to be different from what has been proposed.

[DubaiSis]

DBB, I think your idea is really an interesting one, but it diminishes the competition for the "best" girls.

I also find it really interesting that the only ones here who like recs are from the deep south (as far as I can tell anyway). I really do think it's way more about tradition than anything else. And for all the mythos about family connections, we've seen in the numbers that Bama, for instance, does a great job at placing girls from all over the country. Now those girls may have had great recs for every chapter, but I doubt they are the same kind of recs the girl from Birmingham has.

Which brings me back to hazing before the fact. I think it's just busy work to narrow down the girls who are willing to jump through the hoops. I also say if you really want alumnae input, have a rush day of interviews by them, ala colony recruitment. Then every girl would have a rec and it would be a valid one that wasn't done by some stranger who may or may not even know the girl.

[greekdee]

I do like the idea of recs coming from someone who really does know the PNM, and agree that they should carry some weight...just don't know how much they really do in these mega-massive recruitments. A big crop of PNMs from my community attend UGA, Bama, Ole Miss and Auburn, making them the schools I send the most recs to. There are also a lot of NPC alumnae in my area and we network to help these PNMs get recs. Every year, we send glowing -- and I mean, they radiate with glow -- recs in on girls we know. And every year we see some get dropped by our sororities. We see legacies not make it to pref, and some have legacy connections that hold key positions in alumnae organizations. The SEC can be one rough ride.

I also get rec requests from PNMs I don't know personally. This happens both locally as well as through an online Panhellenic community I and some others are involved with. Because of how our networks are structured, we do have the opportunity to communicate with PNMs, so that helps. Most of us also operate on the "vouched for" system. If someone I know and trust vouches for a PNM she knows, then I'm comfortable giving a rec. Many alumnae I know who do recs are also okay with this. Even with all this vouching, you're still talking about recs from alumnae who don't know the PNM personally, didn't watch her grow up, etc.

Given the size of these SEC recruitments, and that PNMs are advised to get 2-3 recs per chapter, I think there are a lot being sent in by alums who don't know them personally. Yet, some of the PNMs I didn't know personally had smoother recruitments than those I did know. At the end of the day, it comes down to the connection a PNM makes with the sorority and if they can see her as a sister....not a rec from an alum 30 years out of school.

I do think recs are used to learn more about PNMs, but tend to think they are referenced for that later in the process -- as the sorority's interest in a PNM grows. Initially, though, I think they are used to manage the numbers. Good grief, if only half the PNMs in these big recruitments get the suggested number of recs, you're talking an avalanche piling up. A lot of recs arrive in the summer. How is it even possible for sororities to read through all those recs and learn about all those PNMs prior to an early or mid August recruitment?
I think they are initially checked off, then possibly referenced later if the sorority is interested in the PNM.

I honestly don't seeing them being phased out in the SEC. Given the dynamics I described on page one of this thread, I think they (or the lack of them) are part of the early weeding out.

[ASTalumna06]

So here's a question...

As Greek life grows at these schools, and as chapters open on campuses that previously didn't have Greek life, and as more and more regions around the country are seeing alumnae chapters and panhellenics popping up, and as the positives of Greek life are overshadowing the negative stereotypes - what happens when every girl coming through the door has a rec to every chapter?

Granted, this might not happen for quite some time. But what then?

My mom hires people all the time, and she says to me, "Currently, a college diploma pretty much carries the same weight as a high school diploma did 20 years ago." Everyone has one. It's become one of those boxes you just check off.

What could be done once everyone has recs? Should they still be used at that point?

[DubaiSis]

ASTAlumnae06, I think this is pretty close to already reality at the big Southern schools. It would be interesting to hear what percentage of rushees going through rush at these schools have recs, especially to the big Southern sororities.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

ASTAlumnae06, I think this is pretty close to already reality at the big Southern schools.

If this is the case, how do recs help to "get the numbers down" after round 1, as others have indicated earlier in this thread? I would imagine it would have more to do with the info contained within the rec, rather than whether a PNM has actually obtained one.

[amIblue?]

I'd love to hear from some actives regarding how important they think recs are.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I'd love to hear from some actives regarding how important they think recs are.

It might depend on which info on the rec -- the objective info (gpa, class rank, honors, service, etc), or the subjective parts (like a check in the box for poise or good moral character or whatever).

I feel that the actives may find the former more helpful than the latter (they creep facebooks for the latter, actually).