Foreclosures and Irresponsible Home THIEVES

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I don't have an outside solution as I think mostly this is all going to work itself out through some people getting modifications and others losing their homes. I don't think there's any reason to froth at the mouth over other people's choices.

Have you been talking about foreclosures in general or people who stay in their homes without paying on them?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Have you been talking about foreclosures in general or people who stay in their homes without paying on them?

Just now, foreclosures in general, throughout the thread, people who cease paying their mortgages and wait until they're evicted to leave, no matter where they eat.

I do not get the outright personal affront that has been exhibited throughout this thread. It's very much a "how dare they when I'm working my ass off" conversation and I just do not think that makes any sense.

[StargazerLily]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Except that the house doesn't belong to the bank until the mortgage is paid in full. You're starting with a false premise.

Legally, the house belongs to the owner/borrower, whose name is on the deed. The bank has a secured loan, with the real property as the security. If the owner/borrower defaults on the loan, the bank has the right under the terms of the loan to initiate legal proceedings to take possession of the property (which wouldn't be necessary if the bank already owned the property) and have the property sold in order to satisfy the loan. But despite the fact that people say it all the time, the bank does not own the property unless and until it forecloses. Hence, no stealing.

Call them deadbeats, call them defaulters, call them useless. But thieves simply doesn't fit because they, not the bank, own the property.

Meanwhile, what Dr. Phil said.

Okay, I understand. Yes. They are useless deadbeat losers.

[DTD Alum]

I actually work in real estate and am in frequent contact with people whose homes are underwater. Many of them attempt short-sales. The thing is that you cannot paint them all with the same brush.

Many of the people doing short-sales and being foreclosed on were people with a conventional, reasonable mortgage who had never missed a payment, but suffered horrible luck...perhaps a loss of a job combined with a huge medical bill. I really feel for those.

On the other hand, there are many families who were, to put it bluntly, wildly irresponsible. They took a liar's loan or a loan with a balloon payments, bought a house they would NEVER be able to afford otherwise, and then on top of that decided to take out a home equity line of credit and use their already poor investment as an ATM for Mastro's and the Bahamas! Some fault lies with the banks for even offering such absurd loans, but a lot of fault has to lie with those homeowners. I'm sorry. They make a horrifically risky and greedy financial decision and now, of course, there are consequences.

So some are unfortunate victims of the economy, and some are wildly irresponsible...and neither side has an outright majority. There are plenty of both.

[DrPhil]

How common is it for people to stay in their homes without paying on them? It's a relative rarity.

That's clearly a problem and takes some HUGE cajones to even attempt. Wouldn't the police remove the people?

"Call the po-po, ho" ~ Madea

[srmom]

How common is it for people to stay in their homes without paying on them? It's a relative rarity

In south Florida it is very common. The bank my son works for won't start foreclosure proceedings for up to 12 months after the last payment was recieved. They try to work with the deadbeat, errr homeowner (JK) to modify or restructure the loan, but homeowners are catching on that they aren't going to be forcibly removed so they are staying (essentially) squatting for months to get the bank to make better offers.

It's not against the law, they are just using the system for their best benefit. Just as there are many honorable people who've just gotten in over their head, there are dishonorable people who are gaming the system as it stands and will continue to do so until the game changes.

The banks do not want to take ownership of those homes.

[PiKA2001]

Interesting but how is this any different from people who write hot checks serving a few days in jail?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Interesting but how is this any different from people who write hot checks serving a few days in jail?

One is fraud?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

One is fraud?

I don't know, writing a bad a check and using a credit card with no intention of paying it are the same in eyes.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I don't know, writing a bad a check and using a credit card with no intention of paying it are the same in eyes.

There's bouncing a check and there's an intentionally bad check. One's a mistake and you pay a fee to your bank, the business, etc. One's fraud and possibly theft of services.

Not paying your credit card is more of a violation of contract and not paying most debts is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

There's a system for it, our jails aren't it.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

There's bouncing a check and there's an intentionally bad check. One's a mistake and you pay a fee to your bank, the business, etc. One's fraud and possibly theft of services.

Not paying your credit card is more of a violation of contract and not paying most debts is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

There's a system for it, our jails aren't it.

Yep, but didn't these people end up in jail because they didn't appear in court?

[Low C Sharp]

The article explains pretty easily how it's an abuse of the system

Maybe particular creditors are abusing the system, but missing hearings in the court system is dead serious, as it should be. Otherwise, anybody in any kind of trouble would just skip out on going to court. The power of the court to issue consequences, including imprisonment, is the reason people take courts seriously.
________
KarolinPosh cam

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Maybe particular creditors are abusing the system, but missing hearings in the court system is dead serious, as it should be. Otherwise, anybody in any kind of trouble would just skip out on going to court. The power of the court to issue consequences, including imprisonment, is the reason people take courts seriously.

Also, see the article.

Or AGDee's comment.

There's also the issue, though I'm not sure if it happens in these cases, of the debt purchasers taking the person to court in another jurisdiction. I know it can happen in lawsuits, but not sure about these cases.

[AGDee]

Although the article said that sometimes there was no evidence that the debtors were notified of the court date. That is simply shady.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Although the article said that sometimes there was no evidence that the debtors were notified of the court date. That is simply shady.

Many of the people I see committing the fraud are simply shady. Pay your bills and you won't get into trouble or don't spend what you don't have.