"Negro" in the historical context.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That's what ethnic and cultural identities are about. Whiteness as a racial identity essentially became all-inclusive generations ago.

As always, I refer you to Ignatiev's "How the Irish Became White" if you want to understand why and how.

Also as a companion piece, read "...And Ladies of the Club." It's fiction, but it definitely shows how the Irish were viewed by other white people and why they did what they did.

ARE there older black people out there who still use "Negro" just because they think any of the updated terms are too militant/reactionary? (Kind of along the same lines of women who don't call themselves feminists.)

naraht, I understand what Dr Phil is trying to say. It's the difference between referring to someone (verbally or nonverbally) as "my black friend Terri" and "my friend Terri who loves skiing and lives in South Park and oh yeah, who happens to be black."

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by 33girl

ARE there older black people out there who still use "Negro" just because they think any of the updated terms are too militant/reactionary?

None that I have met, but I can understand that if you are a product of that era why you may use it. Some people are indeed resistant to change.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Also as a companion piece, read "...And Ladies of the Club." It's fiction, but it definitely shows how the Irish were viewed by other white people and why they did what they did.

Thanks. I'll have to check that out.

Originally Posted by 33girl

ARE there older black people out there who still use "Negro" just because they think any of the updated terms are too militant/reactionary? (Kind of along the same lines of women who don't call themselves feminists.)

Yes, and also Black people who just think it complicates things--similar to men and women who think gender equality complicates things (such as child birth).

There are also older (and not so older) Black people who don't look white people in the eyes and call all white people "sir" and "ma'am," even if they are 20 years older than the white person.

Originally Posted by 33girl

naraht, I understand what Dr Phil is trying to say. It's the difference between referring to someone (verbally or nonverbally) as "my black friend Terri" and "my friend Terri who loves skiing and lives in South Park and oh yeah, who happens to be black."

Those of us who are accustomed to being the only Black person (or other nonwhite person) in academic, professional, and certain personal settings know how it feels to be the "token Black person." People try real hard to prove they aren't racist ("some of my bestfriends are..."/"my ex-boyfriend is....") even when YOU aren't thinking about that stuff.

White people who are "the only" experience a similar dynamic except for the fact that whites (as the population and power majority in this country) are much less likely to be "the only" unless they SEEK out nonwhite settings in this extremely (de facto) racially segregated society.

This isn't about bigotry or good people versus bad people (as naraht seems to think it is). It's about power dynamics and social interaction.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Those of us who are accustomed to being the only Black person (or other nonwhite person) in academic, professional, and certain personal settings know how it feels to be the "token Black person." People try real hard to prove they aren't racist ("some of my bestfriends are..."/"my ex-boyfriend is....") even when YOU aren't thinking about that stuff..

Exactly...some people go so far out of the way to try to be 'non offensive' that they wind up being more offensive in the long run.

Sometimes if you are trying to be friends with someone of another race or culture, it's simply best not to 'be so obvious'.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You are living in it.

You could've easily made this woman's racial designation a last consideration. Instead, you volunteered his romp with her as support for why he's not racist and how she loves it when he talks dirty to her "colored negro ass." ()

She's relegated to "an African American who...." and "the African American who...." You did that. He probably did, as well, since an elderly white man dating the help is always an ice breaker. However, I did not do that.

I just hope I'm up for a romp when I'm 84, he isn't (see mention in previous posting about Prostate issues) . How you got from my term "dating" to screwing and a romp is *well* beyond me. Equally beyond me is how you got from "being refered to as colored" to "talking dirty".

I'd have included both their names, but they are irrelevant to the point. (and the man who taught my neighbor is dead) She was no longer "the help" once his wife died. And her being colored was the last thing I said in the post.

Finding out that he was dating her wasn't an ice breaker, it was my wife and I being curious as to what was getting him out of the house after his wife's death.

But, if that's who you are, that's who you are. You'll hold those opinions of my neighbor regardless of what I post in the future, and for *that* I pity you.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by 33girl

naraht, I understand what Dr Phil is trying to say. It's the difference between referring to someone (verbally or nonverbally) as "my black friend Terri" and "my friend Terri who loves skiing and lives in South Park and oh yeah, who happens to be black."

33girl, I understand that. However with his deceased wife having two caregivers, of about the same age, height, and weight, refering to her race as the way to identify which one he was dating was, to me, reasonable.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by naraht

33girl, I understand that. However with his deceased wife having two caregivers, of about the same age, height, and weight, refering to her race as the way to identify which one he was dating was, to me, reasonable.

Really? you don't see the difference between saying:

My neighbor still uses 'colored', but he is 84. He is definitely *not* racist. After his second wife died about 5 years ago, he dated one of the in home care-givers for his wife for about two years. She didn't mind before referred to as colored, but she is in her 60s.

And

My neighbor still uses 'colored', but he is 84 and is a product of his environment.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by naraht

But, if that's who you are, that's who you are. You'll hold those opinions of my neighbor regardless of what I post in the future, and for *that* I pity you.

Must we go back in thread time to remind you of why we even know about your neighbor and his African American romp? I don't have any opinions of your neighbor. I simply said that you don't know that he's "definitely *not* racist."

Back to the OP (before this thread became one big cliche`), if the text is written in the historical context (including language, tone, and facts) then seeing certain words is understandable. However, if the text is just an excuse for someone to use certain references because they want to do so, it is not okay.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Must we go back in thread time to remind you of why we even know about your neighbor and his African American romp?

Clue: "in home care-givers"

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Originally Posted by 33girl

belt little more graphic

I tried these at the very beginning of my "womanhood" and they were a total pain in the ass.

Forgive me for being a product of my time but what the eff is that!? LOL! OMG! I'd never use that in a MILLION years. Thank GOD for adhesive, better yet, tampons. Pads are so high school...

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Clue: "in home care-givers"

"She's seen me take a shit so now I can hit."

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Really? you don't see the difference between saying:

My neighbor still uses 'colored', but he is 84. He is definitely *not* racist. After his second wife died about 5 years ago, he dated one of the in home care-givers for his wife for about two years. She didn't mind before referred to as colored, but she is in her 60s.

And

My neighbor still uses 'colored', but he is 84 and is a product of his environment.

Yup. One uses an example. The difference is that I see an 84 year old white man dating an african-american woman in her 60's who used to work for him and his wife as an expression of love and lack of racism and you apparently see it as a sign that the plantation is still a model for relationships in the 21st century.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

"She's seen me take a shit so now I can hit."

I have to walk outside and get some air while I LMAO.....thank you.


*calmly leaves his desk*

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

"She's seen me take a shit so now I can hit."

Only if his wife had been interested.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by naraht

The difference is that I see an 84 year old white man dating an african-american woman in her 60's who used to work for him and his wife as an expression of love and lack of racism and you apparently see it as a sign that the plantation is still a model for relationships in the 21st century.

This belongs in the D&R Random thread.