Michael Vick and Job offer

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I understand what you're saying, as far as an emotional response to what he did; at the end of the day, he's done his time and should be allowed to move on with his life, like anyone else.

But even looking at it from an unemotional, logical point of view, his financing of the dog fights was a big part of what allowed it to happen, at least on that large scale. Allowing the dog fights to happen is "actually harming" the dogs (unless you know of some types of dog fights where no dogs are harmed). I think it's hard to minimize his culpability in this.

I don't think anyone is minimizing his culpability (in the sense that he was the 'proximate cause' of the dogfighting and subsequent injuries) - there is no doubt that he has blood on his hands from each dog that died or was injured.

However, while the actual dogfighting is barbaric in and of itself, you can certainly question his involvement in the barbarism that went above and beyond what was 'required' of dogfighting ipso facto. Basically you need to think more like a juror and less like an attorney, is what I'm saying - that whole "'Responsible' means different things" issue.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I don't think anyone is minimizing his culpability (in the sense that he was the 'proximate cause' of the dogfighting and subsequent injuries) - there is no doubt that he has blood on his hands from each dog that died or was injured.

However, while the actual dogfighting is barbaric in and of itself, you can certainly question his involvement in the barbarism that went above and beyond what was 'required' of dogfighting ipso facto. Basically you need to think more like a juror and less like an attorney, is what I'm saying - that whole "'Responsible' means different things" issue.

I don't think this is so much at odds with what I said, but I was looking at it a bit more broadly. I was responding more to the idea of whether Vick "harmed" the dogs himself, looking at the term "harm" broadly. I understand that these things exist on a spectrum, and that the guy who is financing things is on a different level than the guy who is doing the torturing of the animals.

[KSUViolet06]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4397938

Vick signs 2 year deal with Eagles.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Michael Vick is done in the NFL. No team wants to risk the bad PR, and there WOULD be a ton of bad PR. Fans just don't want to cheer for someone like him, and no team wants someone so toxic that not even the hometown fans will cheer for him.

Even if he one day wrote a book and went on a speaking tour promoting how he's "reformed," he'd be so rusty (and getting old for a pro athlete) that I don't think teams would view him as a physical asset anymore.

Well, I am eating my words now, because the Philadelphia Eagles just signed Michael Vick today. As you can imagine, there are a lotta people who aren't happy about it, especially Eagles fans. I sure wouldn't want to work in the team's PR office.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...88_vick14.html

"When news of Vick's signing circulated in the press box during the first half of the Eagles' preseason opener against New England, even the team's public relations staff seemed surprised.

The stadium was buzzing by halftime as word spread. Fans standing on the concourse were in disbelief. One guy wondered how quickly he'd be able to buy a Vick jersey. Another asked if this was a joke."


I do stick by my original statement that I think this is a bad idea for the team that signed him. Who wants to cheer for this guy? It's hard to feel pride in an organization that brings in someone like this.

[als463]

A sister from my chapter works for the Philadelphia Eagles in the PR department. I was friends with a guy who played for the Eagles and I am from Pennsylvania. I was a BIG Eagles fan....until NOW!

I will NOT be cheering for the Eagles because whether or not people think what Vick did was okay, he is still a role model and this is just teaching people that you can be an awful human being but, still make millions of dollars a year...I realize not every celebrity is society's moral compass but, there are many great and deserving guys out there who would make the Philadelphia Eagles proud. I am appalled and will now be cheering for the Pittsburgh Steelers. I know a lot of other (former) Eagles fans who feel the same way.

I'm just shocked! I remember Drew Carey even said, in the past when this all first came out about the dog fighting, that he would not be supporting the NFL if they chose to allow him back into the NFL. You don't have to be a tree-hugging hippy to feel sorrow for those poor animals and think this man should make a living doing something that won't glorify his behavior. "It's okay to abuse and murder animals, kids...just make sure you are good at sports!" That's exactly what we are telling people.

[33girl]

All I can say is, I hope the Eagles have the money to pay the city for the extra police presence they will have to hire outside the stadium to control the protestors that will be outside EVERY game. I don't think they are fully aware of what they're getting into or how passionate the animal rights cause is. This doesn't even include the regular people who are sickened by what Vick did and will be voting with their wallets.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

All I can say is, I hope the Eagles have the money to pay the city for the extra police presence they will have to hire outside the stadium to control the protestors that will be outside EVERY game. I don't think they are fully aware of what they're getting into or how passionate the animal rights cause is. This doesn't even include the regular people who are sickened by what Vick did and will be voting with their wallets.

That's what my stepdad was saying today.

The just don't know the PR nightmare they hired.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

You know what's sad? There are ball players of every kind who have been responsible for the deaths of PEOPLE and will go back to playing ball like nothing happened. Players who have raped. A myriad who have children irresponsibly and are for the most part, either not around, or don't support them as fathers. Maybe even some who have/are currently spreading STIs.
Who is protesting that?

Did you know that a gang of men raped a woman in front of her child and terrorized them before leaving finally leaving? Her whole neighborhood heard and no one did anything? Someone go protest outside their trial! Make sure these teenages never see the light of day. Go protest outside their parents' houses so they will try to do better by their remaining kids. Go protest at CNN b/c minority children can go missing and no one bats an eye! Protest something that will actually help somebody! The trial is over and the time is served and that can't be changed. Protesting won't bring those dogs back. Spend the time looking for current offenders if animal rights is your thing.


Peta's on my bad side anyway. Who thinks it's okay to wear Klan clothes and compare animal rights to slavery? Hell to da naw! You know you dead azz wrong!

[I.A.S.K.]

I agree with Babypink. Though I am a die hard Pats fan I now have an extra special place in my heart for the Eagles. Vick was the financial backer of a dog fighting ring. He was wrong for what he participated in. He served more than his share of time in prison and has paid his debt. I think far too many people place more value on the lives of animals than they should. Stallworth got 24 days for killing a person and 1 year suspension. Vick's life should not be ruined for a bad decision. Not every person looks at dogs as pets. In many places they're nothing more than another animal and in others they're food. PETA is a very backward organization in many ways. Until PETA figures out that animals are not equal to people I will happily remain a member of PETOP. People for the ethical treatment of other people.
It should also be noted that if Vick's last name was Rothelsberger (sp?) we wouldn't be having this discussion

[33girl]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

It should also be noted that if Vick's last name was Rothelsberger (sp?) we wouldn't be having this discussion

Nice try (by nice I mean really F***ing lame) but Ben has not been convicted or proven guilty, as Vick was. Oh and it's Roethlisberger.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Stallworth got 24 days for killing a person and 1 year suspension. Vick's life should not be ruined for a bad decision.

I'm really sick and tired of people making this comparison, because it's effing lame. Stallworth was determined to have been negligent and reckless in a one-time incident. He did not have a history of DUI, bad driving, or other reckless behavior. Vick, on the other hand, continued this "operation" for over two years. He didn't just run a dog-fighting ring for a month or two. NO. His "operation" went above and beyond simple dog-fighting. He killed animals who didn't "win," he set up rape racks to allow other dogs to violate each other when it wasn't appropriate, he didn't take care of the animals he had in his ownership.

I'm not an "animal person," I didn't grow up with pets, but I do understand that when you purchase a pet in this country, you are implicitly agreeing to take care of it and not have it killed or raped when it doesn't fill the sick fantasies you and your band of thugs might have for it.

[pbear19]

For those complaining that Vick shouldn't be penalized because other people who do worse things aren't penalized sufficiently, I have a lovely sentiment straight from my mother:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[rhoyaltempest]

I think it's a trip and SAD how passionate people are about animal rights in comparison to human rights. There are sooooo many people causes to get behind, protest, and fight for. There are soooo many societal ills to correct like racism, sexism, and all the other isms and yet people aren't nearly as passionate about abolishing those. Very sad indeed.

And I am an animal lover.

[aggieAXO]

I realize there are a lot of human ills that need to be corrected in this day and age. But for the most part in MY experience many of the people that I come across create their own problems. Of course that is not always the case. These animals had NO voice. They could not get away. They were TORTURED. I hope Vick breaks his neck, piece of $hit. And for those of you upset about the protesting and want other thngs protested, why don't you get out there and do your own protesting for things you are passionate about. I really liked Philly when I visited last year but now I have just lost respect for that city. I hope the protests are large and wide. I hope that SOB gets what he deserves.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

I realize there are a lot of human ills that need to be corrected in this day and age. But for the most part in MY experience many of the people that I come across create their own problems. Of course that is not always the case. These animals had NO voice. They could not get away. They were TORTURED. I hope Vick breaks his neck, piece of $hit. And for those of you upset about the protesting and want other thngs protested, why don't you get out there and do your own protesting for things you are passionate about. I really liked Philly when I visited last year but now I have just lost respect for that city. I hope the protests are large and wide. I hope that SOB gets what he deserves.

Feel better? Great cause to be passionate about. I'm from Philly and we don't need/want you in our city. And by the way, Philly's citizens didn't actually play a role in making the decision for Vic to play for the Eagles...so much for you being mad at an entire city.