240,000 dollars awarded to man forced to cover Arab T-shirt

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

Says who she or anyone else has to defend their ideas or opinions on Greekchat.com? You dont have to agree with one's ideas or opinions. They have the right to those ideas or opinions. You can respectfully agree to disagree with them.

Then what's the point of discussion?

Agreeing to disagree is for the birds. It goes without saying that you won't change people's minds. The point is to understand different points of view. That requires clear and concise expressions of the points of view.

[Senusret I]

Where has anyone on GreekChat abridged anyone else's right to free speech?

And where has anyone been disrespectful?

Stop deflecting.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Where has anyone on GreekChat abridged anyone else's right to free speech?

And where has anyone been disrespectful?

Stop deflecting.

Lol welllll not exactly in this thread, except people ASSuming and making up stuff that's not posted but I expect it from that poster because I've seen him do it to others.

But I think you should say in this thread instead of on GreekChat... and if someone really doesn't like it there is some place else they can go...

[Senusret I]

Well yeah, I almost added an asterisk and mention several NPHC and recruitment forums, but I figured I better be general. lol

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I have an insane fear of elevators and getting stuck in one (caustrophia) especially with the wrong person. I avoid elevators if I can... actually did for 8 years until my job required it. And that first time getting in again was hell and I almost started hyperventilating but then the doors finally opened. So it's not bullshit.

If I saw Timothy McVeigh, in a post-terrorism world (and old enough to understand better) on the street I'd probably be wary of him. He was kinda scary looking.

How's does the red thing come from watching too many movies?

And no I'm not afraid of turbans. Stop making assumptions.

and again the point I am making like a plane just flew right over you...let's work backwards here...

Turbans and red bandanas...I asked you simply because you brought up the 'red bandanas' thing which outside of LA gangs...I have never really heard of marking a terrorist....basically when you said it...it was already reaching.


Timothy McVeigh on the street - ummm...how would you know to be wary of him? This drives deep in the heart of what we are talking about as far as profiling...most people on the street that we walk past we have no clue unless they are overtly obvious as to what they are capable of doing. You wouldn't know what Tim was capable of doing just as much as you would know what the young man in this article is capable of.

When I read this article and when I read your reaction, the first thing that came to my mind was the scene from Harold and Kumar II

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj0tZZxxcpc

and yes altho it was comedy, it plays so much to the truth that perception can be soooo overblown.


Elevators and claustrophobia - So that is your problem....you should have clarified that from the start.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Since 9-11, I'm very wary of everyone around me. I feel the same way when I get into an elevator (aka death trap) with someone I don't know, no matter what color (yes even white) or religion they are. 9-11 has made people paranoid, and I'm one of those people. This is a current fear due to something that is still so fresh in a lot of people's minds. I'm sorry but that's the living truth and I'm not going to be ridiculed for stating my thoughts and feelings on it.

Instead you come off soundling like you are a paranoid xenophobe.



PSsssst....if it makes you feel better I'm scared of white people too.......hehehe !!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

Says who she or anyone else has to defend their ideas or opinions on Greekchat.com? You dont have to agree with one's ideas or opinions. They have the right to those ideas or opinions. You can respectfully agree to disagree with them.

They have a right to have those opinions.

That doesn't mean those opinions are right - no one has to defend their opinions, but if their opinions are poorly formed, based on something other than logic (like, oh, prejudice or fear or hate or ignorance), or otherwise wrong (both in the sense of "incorrect" and "not right"), there's no reason not to challenge those opinions.

You can choose whether or not to defend your thoughts/opinions/beliefs, but it's actually quite immature to say "But it's MY OPINION! I have a right to an OPINION!" as some sort of absolute defense to others questioning you. That's not how it works, and the faster we can disavow ourselves of this myth, the better discussion and communication will become.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

They have a right to have those opinions.

That doesn't mean those opinions are right - no one has to defend their opinions, but if their opinions are poorly formed, based on something other than logic (like, oh, prejudice or fear or hate or ignorance), or otherwise wrong (both in the sense of "incorrect" and "not right"), there's no reason not to challenge those opinions.

You can choose whether or not to defend your thoughts/opinions/beliefs, but it's actually quite immature to say "But it's MY OPINION! I have a right to an OPINION!" as some sort of absolute defense to others questioning you. That's not how it works, and the faster we can disavow ourselves of this myth, the better discussion and communication will become.

This post should be stickied somewhere by itself.

[ASTalumna06]

Question: Was this guy arrested? Was he not allowed to fly? Or was he simply asked to change his shirt? Keep in mind, this doesn’t change my opinion about this matter any, but if he was only asked to change and/or cover his shirt, what’s the point? The guy could have put on a sweatshirt, but still hijacked the plane just as easily as if he was only wearing the original shirt.

Now, another question: What if a homosexual walked on a plane, wearing a shirt that said, “We will not be silent” in rainbow colors. What would you interpret that to mean? Would you expect that person to cover their shirt, also?

People will argue, as they already have, “But 19 homosexuals didn’t try to hijack planes before.” That’s nice. Who cares? Either way you look at it, you’re judging people based on what other people have.. or haven’t done. Who’s to say that particular homosexual doesn’t have 18 of his buddies waiting at other airports, ready to take over some planes? But because you looked at the darker-skinned man next to him and judged only him because of his shirt, thousands of people will still die.

This is racial profiling, no matter how you look at it.

People here keep saying, “Well this Muslim did this, and that Arab did that, and this was bad, and that's why I’m scared.” Yes, bad things happen because of bad people. And there are crazy people in this country who come from the Middle East. And there are crazy people in this country who grew up next door. THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT EVERYONE OF THAT SAME RACE/ETHNICITY/POLITICAL GROUP ETC. ARE BAD PEOPLE. And if you do think this way, I would be led to believe that you think everyone is a bad person.

And yes, racial profiling happens in this country everyday. But that doesn’t make it right.

So, if you want to live your life in fear of every person that you walk by on the street, that’s fine. Go ahead... worry 24 hours a day and think that the person next to you is always out to get you. But don’t interrupt other people’s lives doing it.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

I was scared and pissed off when I was walking down the Vegas strip after Christmas and some arabs/palestinians/middle-easterners shouted "Death to Israel" to some Jews who were simply driving down the strip wishing people happy holidays and a happy new year (a nice gesture that had nothing to do with politics or current issues). Husband and I moved to the other side of the strip in both fear of something happening and fear of what we may say in anger to spark an argument/dispute.

I will stand up and support PM_Mama on this issue.

Hmm. You don't think recent Israeli activities in Palestine would have anything to do with their sentiment, huh? Could you tell whether or not they were Palestinian? (Wearing garments, usually scarves or headscarves that are white and black checked with red, black, and green accents?) Regardless of whether or not they were Palestinian, Palestine holds religious significance for Muslims, Jews, and Christians, and honestly I don't think any one world group has any more of a legitimate claim to the area.

The day after New Years, my friend and I went shopping down on Michigan Avenue. There were probably 500-700 Palestinians that were protesting Israeli activity against Hamas and US support of those airstrikes. What worried me more than their chants of "Free Palestine!" were the Israelis across the river. Who were shouting at the Palestinians. And it's not like they were shouting "excuse me you're wrong hi look at us let's reason..."

It reminded me of those videos of Obama supporters at McCain rallies or McCain supporters at Obama rallies.

ETA: I realize that I'm a little misleading with the scarves/headscarves thing. They don't wear them all the time. And the headscarves thing is usually for higher ups. Normally what you'll see is a checked (looking) strip of cloth worn around the neck. If the group is big enough (I'd say 4-5 or more) you'll usually see at least one of these cloth things. I wish I could describe them better. The women will be wearing regular headscarves (in solid colors).

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

They have a right to have those opinions.

That doesn't mean those opinions are right - no one has to defend their opinions, but if their opinions are poorly formed, based on something other than logic (like, oh, prejudice or fear or hate or ignorance), or otherwise wrong (both in the sense of "incorrect" and "not right"), there's no reason not to challenge those opinions.

You can choose whether or not to defend your thoughts/opinions/beliefs, but it's actually quite immature to say "But it's MY OPINION! I have a right to an OPINION!" as some sort of absolute defense to others questioning you. That's not how it works, and the faster we can disavow ourselves of this myth, the better discussion and communication will become.

Agreed 100%. Somehow the idea has developed on this site that a person has a right to state their opinions, but those who disagree have no right to do so. Where that came from, I don't know.

If you're going to air your opinions in public, and, specifically, if you're going to announce your opinions on controversial subjects, you have to expect that there will be someone who will disagree with you. If you can't accept that, then I don't know what to tell you.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by AGDee

We know because some of them have been arrested, including the owner of a very popular and high profile local restaurant chain who even had a relative working for the government (some of whom have been arrested and some of whom have left the country). It is a fact that there are terror cells within 10 minutes of where PM_Mama lives.

Air Tran has assigned seating, unlike SouthWest.

Thanks for clarifying (on both). I didn't know that was case, and I probably would be a little more aware of the people around me.

Originally Posted by AGDee

A lot of people have been deeply affected by 9/11 and are much more nervous about getting on a plane. Have you seriously never been uncomfortable with a stranger on an elevator because they gave you a bad vibe? When we had the big blackout of 2003, the first thing people thought was "terrorism". Before 9/11, we would have assumed "mechanical failure". We are in a different reality than we were on 9/10/01.

Nope I haven't. Just like I don't get nervous about the people on the plane around me. I DO get scared thinking the plane is going to malfunction & crash, but not that anyone is gonna hijack the plane.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

eta: I get Palestine and Pakistan mixed up all the time. He may be from Palestine. I need to ask her.

The ONLY way her father could be Pakistani and Arab is if he was 1/2 & 1/2 (1/2 pakistani, 1/2 Arab). Pakistani people are NOT Arabs. If he is Arab, then you are probably right that's he's Palestinian.

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

Hmm. You don't think recent Israeli activities in Palestine would have anything to do with their sentiment, huh? Could you tell whether or not they were Palestinian?

Yeah I mentioned that to TP the first time she talked about it, and she didn't care. She said it didn't matter whether they were "Palestinian or Arab." But actually it does matter, because of the Palestinian sentiment towards Israel.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by epchick

The ONLY way her father could be Pakistani and Arab is if he was 1/2 & 1/2 (1/2 pakistani, 1/2 Arab). Pakistani people are NOT Arabs. If he is Arab, then you are probably right that's he's Palestinian.

Unless he is Arab and lived in Pakistan. I need to talk to her about it cuz now I'm confused. I do know that wherever it is out there, he married a woman from there (friend's step-mother) and she visits often and doesn't speak much English.

The red bandana thing... I shouldn't have said bandana. It was the red strip of fabric thing that they tyed around their head before taking over. It could have a real name, not sure.

[agzg]

I would just think that although many Arabs from all over the Middle East don't like or appreciate Israel, the more likely candidates to be yelling "death to Israel" would be Palestinians.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

We know because some of them have been arrested, including the owner of a very popular and high profile local restaurant chain who even had a relative working for the government (some of whom have been arrested and some of whom have left the country). It is a fact that there are terror cells within 10 minutes of where PM_Mama lives.

I don't know that this is something specific to one's closeness to the situation, or that it makes PM_Mama's situation that much different than a number of people...I would imagine there are anti-American elements in a lot of cities, and heck, the planes went right through Boston where KSigRC, myself, and a bunch of other members of this board were going to school. Not to mention the members of the board who were living in NYC at the time, or who lost family members and friends on 9/11...

On a somewhat unrelated note - I always wonder about the difference in feelings by people who lost loved ones on 9/11, and those who did not. In my immediate circle of friends and acquaintances (those who lost friends and family, and those who were living in NYC or working near Ground Zero) have tended to hold softer lines on this kind of stuff than others. In other words, they're the ones who wouldn't mind sitting on an airplane with someone like this claimant.

I often wonder whether my friends are a representative group in that regard. It's not to say that each person is entitled to their own opinions on these things, but I always thought that the split in feelings among my friends was interesting.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

The red bandana thing... I shouldn't have said bandana. It was the red strip of fabric thing that they tyed around their head before taking over. It could have a real name, not sure.

Does it look more like this (a Keyyifeh):



or

this (sometimes called a Shemagh or a ghutra an iqal):