Rush at OU

[gee_ess]

So, are out of state students granted admission after the school sees how many of the 10% choose to attend? Does anyone instate from below the 10% get into UT? Is it almost impossible for an out of state student to get in?
I ask because I have a friend in Missouri whose father is a UT alum, who is a diehard Longhorn fan and has applied to UT for next fall. She will be number 2 or 3 in her class but I don't know what that means for out of state admission possibilities. I seriously hope she has a plan b and plan c in place but know she is dying to be a longhorn like dad.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

So, are out of state students granted admission after the school sees how many of the 10% choose to attend? Does anyone instate from below the 10% get into UT? Is it almost impossible for an out of state student to get in?
I ask because I have a friend in Missouri whose father is a UT alum, who is a diehard Longhorn fan and has applied to UT for next fall. She will be number 2 or 3 in her class but I don't know what that means for out of state admission possibilities. I seriously hope she has a plan b and plan c in place but know she is dying to be a longhorn like dad.

I don't honestly know! I know 10% isn't actually the percentage of out of staters admitted, but the percentage of out of staters in the student body... if that makes a difference.

I would assume, though, based on those stats, that UT is trying to reserve around 10% of spaces (maybe a little less, because again, that 10% I believe includes grad students, most of whom will be from out of state) for out of state students.

I would guess it's about as difficult, possibly a LITTLE less, just a little, to get into UT from out of state as it is at schools for which it is notoriously difficult to get into out of state (UVA, UNC, etc.). At that point, even if you're an awesome student, it's going to be somewhat of a crapshoot.

[XOMichelle]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

At that point, even if you're an awesome student, it's going to be somewhat of a crapshoot.

Do you see this recurrent theme in the college admissions process? I feel like it is.

[alum]

^^^I see it all the time in our area of the country. It really is the luck of the draw. Kids don't get into their matches and sometimes even supposed safeties reject them. UVA OOS legacies do get a big boost however as they are considered in the instate pile. There is no boost for legacies who actually are instate.

[pandah]

I just wanted to put my 2 cents in here because i haven't seen positive feed on this topic yet. The top ten percent law (TTPL) is great but flawed. Personally, I went to a rural school nearby a city with some of the most competitive schools in the state. Our school could never compete with those city schools in a million years. We didn't have the money which meant we couldn't get the types of teachers like the competitive schools could and the teacher turn over rate is high.
While I find the law fair, I feel it’s flawed. I believe that schools should have caps of at least 50 percent of top ten percent students automatically admitted. First come, first serve because not every TTP student will want to go to the flagship schools. For example, of the 13 top ten students in my school, 6 went to UT and A&M. The rest went to other schools like UNT, UTSA, RICE, TCU, and ETBU. Because of this I feel with the caps, those who truly want to go to flagships will have to be responsible about it, apply in a timely manner and with a 50 percent cap it would free up an extra 30 percent (TTP admission is over 80 percent of the freshman class now) of the freshman classes for schools like UT which could mean students not from the top ten percent from those traditional feeder schools and international and out of state students being admitted.

Top ten percent students still are guaranteed a space at A Texas public school which is what the law states just not their top choice. I think the law should stay because it gives equal footing for those incapable of attending those highly competitive schools and by adding a cap it will better diversify the classes by allowing more out of state and international students and lower ranked Texas students from those traditional feeder schools.

Either way some one will always be angry or feel shafted. I think a happier medium would be a cap or just return to allowing affirmative action but then again that’s only my opinion and I am also biased. I think the house report in 2005 sums up a lot of the issues for both sides. Even though its a bit outdated, the ideas are still the same. http://www.hro.house.state.tx.us/focus/topten79-7.pdf

I think an issue not brought up enough is what would happen if the top ten percent law is rescinded. How accountable will the Texas institutions be to Texans? Then again most don't think of that. There is a small blurb in the house report about it though.

[srmom]

UT and A&M do take into account where you went to highschool and the rigor of the curriculum. In my son's class, there were a number of kids in the top 1/4 who got into UT (2007) with great test scores and extracurriculars. Many had to do the summer program, but they happily did to go to UT.

Many kids in the top 1/3 or so get into A&M, but if you are in the top 1/2, it is almost assured that you can get into the A&M/Blinn Team, and many choose to do that.

As for OU and pledging. My son has 8 friends who are either tri delts or chi-o's at OU (for whatever reason they all pledged the same houses) and none of them were 4.0 (un-weighted) students. They are all great girls with great attributes, and had no problems with recruitment.

At UT there are plenty of girls who are pledging with less than 4.0's unweighted.

A 4.0 unweighted would mean you never got a B, and while there are alot of valedictorians at UT, the student body is not made up with 100% of them, and I doubt OU's student body is either.

edited to add: My son's roommate last year was from Indiana, and he got into UT. He was a valedictorian, NMF though, but I don't think all OOS kids are.

Here is how UT does admissions for NON-top 10% kids (for those who might be interested - from the UT website)

The UT Austin admissions routine for students not automatically admitted is elaborate and entails a broad concept of merit. Beginning with the entering class of 1997, for those not automatically admitted, the idea of merit was expanded from class rank and test scores exclusively to the inclusion of the following factors:

The Academic Index (AI)
High School Record:
o Class rank
o Completion of UT required high school curriculum
o Extent to which students exceed the UT required units
o SAT/ACT score

The Personal Achievement Index (PAI)
o Scores on two essays
o Leadership
o Extracurricular Activities
o Awards/honors
o Work experience
o Service to school or community
o Special circumstances:
- Socio-economic status of family
- Single parent home
- Language spoken at home
- Family responsibilities
- Socio-economic status of school attended
- Average SAT/ACT of school attended in relation to student's own SAT/ACT
- Race (addition approved by the UT Board of Regents in 2003)

Thus, merit includes the ambition to tackle rigorous high school coursework, the production of quality prose, and the desire to make a difference in one’s school, home, or community. Evidence of employability (work), and some sense of having excelled in any number of areas are also considered. Moreover, admissions officials place these attributes in the context of the circumstances under which the student lived.

The Academic Index (AI) is determined by a multiple regression equation utilizing a high school percentile derived from an explicit class rank [1-(class rank/class size)]*100, and verbal and math test scores from the ACT Assessment or the SAT I: Reasoning Test. The equation produces a predicted freshman year grade point average.

After a review of the high school transcript, an applicant can be “awarded” a tenth of a point if he/she exceeded UT’s required high school curriculum. Thus, AI values range from 4.10-0.00.

The Personal Achievement Index (PAI) is UT Austin’s holistic approach to admissions. Admissions officers are trained each year to conduct comprehensive reviews of every application from students not automatically admitted. All applicants are required to submit two essays. Each are read and scored on a scale of 1-6. The application itself, and any attachments an applicant chooses to include, is then reviewed. A “personal achievement” score on a scale of 1-6 is then assigned to the application.

From the three scores, two essays and a personal achievement score, a PAI is computed. The equation reflects a 1997 faculty decision to give slightly more weight to the personal achievement score than the essays:
PAI = [(personal achievement score * 4) + (mean essay * 3)] / 7.

AIs and PAIs of applicants not automatically admitted are then plotted on an admissions decision grid.

[Ladybugmom]

Originally Posted by srmom

UT and A&M do take into account where you went to highschool and the rigor of the curriculum. In my son's class, there were a number of kids in the top 1/4 who got into UT (2007) with great test scores and extracurriculars. Many had to do the summer program, but they happily did to go to UT.

Many kids in the top 1/3 or so get into A&M, but if you are in the top 1/2, it is almost assured that you can get into the A&M/Blinn Team, and many choose to do that.

As for OU and pledging. My son has 8 friends who are either tri delts or chi-o's at OU (for whatever reason they all pledged the same houses) and none of them were 4.0 (un-weighted) students. They are all great girls with great attributes, and had no problems with recruitment.

At UT there are plenty of girls who are pledging with less than 4.0's unweighted.

A 4.0 unweighted would mean you never got a B, and while there are alot of valedictorians at UT, the student body is not made up with 100% of them, and I doubt OU's student body is either.

edited to add: My son's roommate last year was from Indiana, and he got into UT. He was a valedictorian, NMF though, but I don't think all OOS kids are.

Here is how UT does admissions for NON-top 10% kids (for those who might be interested - from the UT website)

Thanks SRMOM for the postive words. I also got a PM from someone who told me that 4.0 was very unrealistic. Like you said, to have a cumulative 4.0 GPA you would have never gotten a B. Most likely those students from Texas with a 4.0 would be going to UT or A&M unless they have generations of Sooners in thier family. I do believe that OU is a great option for those kids from Texas that are great students but just not in the top 10%. My daughter is choosing OU over Tech because it is less than 4 hours from home. Tech is about 8 hours, however, we believe that it is also an excellent school.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Just wanted to say thanks for the excellent explanations. Very interesting!

[cbm]

To the original poster - I graduated from OU 4 years ago from a top house (it was when I was there, but I know how things change). We cut by GPA first, but with a 3.8 and a great resume, your daughter should be fine.

Do get your recs organized now! Recs are very important and you will want 2 for each (top) house. I'm not sure if they are necessary for other houses. Also a great photo sent in with her Greek application will help - not that criteria is based on looks, but a better quality photo will help the members to remember something about your daughter when she comes into the house. Also, if your daugher is involved in any activites that aren't the norm, list them! It's something more than the typical pom/dance/homecoming and it'll give a conversational edge to the members who rush her.

She's really going to have to put it all out there and be herself - rush is no time to be shy! Just make sure she knows that. If she knows any girls in houses, that will also be a big help.

I don't check in here much, but you can PM me if you have any other questions.

[srmom]

ladybugmom, that is the situation at our highschool as well. The kids who cannot get into UT or A&M (for those that are looking at large state schools) will generally look at either OU, LSU (which is around 4.5 hours from Houston), or Tech (which is so far, forget driving!! except that one time to get your car there ). All are considered great options as they are becoming more and more like in-state schools with all the Texans going there!!

There are also many who look at schools like Alabama, Georgia, Ole Miss, Auburn, etc.

We are losing a ton of great kids to out of state schools due to the intractability of the top 10% rule, but as pandah stated above, there are pros and cons to the debate.

[alum]

If your high school has Naviance, you can quickly see the GPA and SAT/ACT as xy coordinates on the scattergrams. It's a great way to glance at the admission stats for a specific university from your high school's just-graduated class.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/ed.../15weadmi.html

[srmom]

That said, as an instructor at UT, I do not believe the top 10% rule really means the student body at UT is unqualified or anything of that sort. In fact, some of the students from prestigious high schools have been low performers in my classes because they get to UT and go Greek and start drinking and partying too much and go crazy, whereas the students from small or rural or "weak" high schools are there to really better themselves and move up in the world.

Ouch! Can you imagine that call home? "Mom, I partied too much and have flunked out!!"

That being said, when we met with the admissions counselor in the business school at UT, he said that, contrary to popular opinion, the top 10% kids (regardless of what kind of highschool they come from) overall do very well - that they are kids who are used to working hard and keeping up with their work. It is all relative - hard working kids are hard working kids, whether they had access to 20 AP classes or not.

[Personally I think it would make sense to alter the rule so that you were required to be admitted to A Texas state university rather than ANY Texas state university

This is the policy in Florida, but I think it's if you are top 20%, you are guaranteed admission to a public university, but not one of the flagships (UF or FSU).

Something else about Florida - if you are a top student, you qualify for great scholarships sponsored by the state - what a novel concept (hint hint Texas legislature!) thus keeping their top students from leaving Florida.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by srmom

Something else about Florida - if you are a top student, you qualify for great scholarships sponsored by the state - what a novel concept (hint hint Texas legislature!) thus keeping their top students from leaving Florida.

Quick hijack-

My husband was a top student from Florida and did receive full tuition to one of the flagship Florida schools.

Instead he turned it down to go out-of-state to school in.... Texas!

So- it doesn't always work, but I know he is likely the exception rather than the rule. Your hints are well-founded.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by srmom

Ouch! Can you imagine that call home? "Mom, I partied too much and have flunked out!!"

I kid you not, I once had a student who was a graduate of a very prestigious Houston high school, who was Greek (in one of the "top tier" fraternities), and who had attended I think only 4-5 sessions of the class I was TAing the entire semester.

He then proceeded to try to get me to raise his grade by saying that we had mutual acquaintances from W&L. And kept going on about how he didn't get into W&L. And complimenting me, W&L, and my sorority (he asked which sorority I'd been in).

LOL. What a trip!

ETA: Do y'all seriously fly to Lubbock? That's crazy! It's not THAT far...

[LadyLonghorn]

Of course if you can throw a football, GPAs and SATs have no meaning at all in the UT admissions process.