Updates on the whole college admissions business

[newbie]

I just checked my horoscope for today...veeeeery interesting and so true in many ways. I just had to post it:

Change is very much in the air today, dear Scorpio, as well as the disruption that often comes along with it. You can expect all sorts of things to go wrong today. While none of the malfunctions are major, they do combine over the course of the day to fray your nerves and try your patience. Try to stay calm and keep your perspective. All will get resolved in time. In the meantime, why not forget about your troubles for the evening? Since the oven isn't working anyway, why not invite some friends out to dinner?


It wasn't right about things "going wrong," but everything else was right on the money . Usually horoscopes aren't even near accurate -- but interseting to read nonetheless!

[newbie]

Originally posted by carnation
Dear newbie,

I bet your mom is doing what I've done before--acting like she doesn't like something you really like because she doesn't want to see your heart broken if it doesn't come through! (Lots of doesn'ts here.)

She's probably afraid you'll fall in love with USC and then be unable to make it happen financially...what do you think?

We're kind of dealing with Deltalum's problem here because so many schools consider loans to be as good as grants and my 2 seniors have the option of attending state colleges free (with a little left over even!) or having to pay $4-6000 for private colleges since we can't do loans. Luckily, their hearts weren't set on the private schools or our hearts would be broken.

Thank you carnation for your advice!! Again, it's always so helpful to have a parent's perspective because sometimes I just don't understand what my parents are thinking .

Problem is, I fell in love with 'SC a long time ago (ever since visiting in August). For the longest time my friends and family were telling me not to get my hopes up about 'SC just in case they didn't accept me. My family especially. Well, now that I'm in, USC seems more like a reality than a fantasy...except for the finances part. I understand...it's horrible to get one's heart crushed. It's frustrating because I thought getting IN to 'SC was the hardest part...well I was wrong! (Seems that way at least.) Definitely not smooth sailing after being accepted!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Newbie,
Congratulations on all of your college acceptances! It's a reflection of and reward for all of your hard work in high school. You should be proud!
There are other sources of financial aid out there besides what a college offers you. You can do a search on the internet to find many websites that can help. www.fastweb.com and www.finaid.org are two such sites. Check them out and good luck!

[pbpck]

Newbie-

I was in a very similar situation. I had to choose between a UC and USC. Everyone in my family was a Trojan. All my life I had been primed for USC. My best friend was going to USC. It was close to home. It was my dream since I was 5 years old to go to USC. USC was my first acceptance letter. But when I was accepted to one of the top UC's, I was torn. I was going to have to pay for college mostly on my own. I had to sit down for weeks and weight pro's and cons like you have been doing. My heart said USC, my mind said UC.

Basically my alum father cried with my ultimate decision to go to the UC, but he was proud of me. He told me that USC was in reality a waste of money. Yes, it has alum connections, yet the greek system for me has provided sufficient connections to say the least. My UC was ranked 10 schools higher than USC. Tuition for my UC was 4000 a year! Basically my father said everyone gets the same education in undergrad. Now days, employers look at grad schools. So I plan to go to my dream school eventually for grad school like Delt Alum advised. Plus, I didn't want to go where all my friends were going. I had always been so adamant about NEVER applying to UC's. But my mother told me to try as back ups, and when I got accepted to UCSD, I actually had to rethink things. But now I am ecstatic with my decision. My parents are proud of me for making it on my own for the most part. And to be perfectly honest, a healthy relationship with ones parents is crucial throughout your transition to adulthood.

So basically that's my tale, and I hope it has shed a little light upon your dilemma. If not, PM me, kid. I will be here for you. I understand how excruciating this is.

Pbpck

[DeltAlum]

Just one final thought -- maybe.

The real reason to go to college is to prepare yourself to make a living in the "real world" (with appologies to MTV).

I've been a hiring manager for over twenty years, and during that time have hired only two people from my alma mater -- which is considered to be one of the very best broadcasting schools in the world.

Here's why...

I think in reality, where you go to school only really counts in "the professions" like medicine and law. What is really important is to get your first job and some experience. After that, it's only the fact that you have a degree from somewhere that counts. Experience is far more important.

And, I echo what some have said above that if you plan on grad school, that's the degree that really counts -- if only for the fact that it's the last one people read on your resume -- the bottom line, so to speak.

So, Newbie, if your heart is set on USC, and you can deal with the cost and loans at other stuff -- I wish you the very best. But, if you end up somewhere else, things will work out in the long run. Getting a degree is the most important part of the equation.

[KarenC725]

Ok, let's see. I went to my "dream school" for a year and a half and had to transfer due to financial aid (or lack there of). Then my dad had a stroke and there was no money coming in. So, here I am 8 years out of high school and no degree with a good year left and loans out the wazoo. I sacrificed a lot of things (including my relationship with my father) to go to the "dream school" and where am I? Stuck in a contract job where I can't get hired in as "real" until I have the piece of paper. Can't get transcripts to take classes until the loans are paid off.

I know this is depressing, but bottom line: the degree is what is important. You will make the best and have a great time in college no matter where you go as long as you MAKE it an experience. I wish that I had made different choices. I'd have a lot less stress and a lot less debt. And I wouldn't be kicking myself in the ass.

[cougar15]

Congrats on your acceptances! It is such a stressful time, you will feel such a rush of relief when it is finally all over. Like everyone else has said, go where "it feels right." I had wanted to go to "my dream" school for a long, long time, but didn't get in the first time around so I went to the school my family had gone to forever. I liked it, but still had it stuck in my head that the "dream school" was where I needed to be. Well, I applied again and got in. So of course after all the hype I went there even with reservations since I didn't want to go so far way from home (across the country) and I was starting to like where I was going, plus I had a full-ride there. So anyway, I went/am at the dream school right now with huge loans just from this year so I have decided to bite the bullet and go back home after this year to the college I left because all the stress I've felt from this year isn't worth it.

Such a long, complicated mess..but it goes to show that it is important to go to the school that you feel most comfortable at and don't worry about all the national ranking, big name stuff because it won't matter in the long run if you aren't happy there.

Best of Luck on your descion!!

[newbie]

I know I must sound awfully repetitive, but I can't thank you guys enough. EACH one of your posts has really helped me think of things I never thought about before.

I am feeling more and more confused as I get more and more feedback from people. My teachers and friends are ultra supportive but it has helped to hear "negative" feedback from you guys. I think it helps that you guys aren't too biased (in that most of you don't really know me).

I did get really scared when reading about some of you who regretfully attended your dream schools.

I have no clue how I will make this decision. Now all I can do is wait for the fin aid package, which should be arriving in less than a week. That should help things a bit...

But as of now I have no clue what to do! I don't want to end up regretting either decision...

[cougar15]

Newbie,

I hope I didn't scare you! I know plenty of people who are at their dream schools and loving it! You just need to make sure that your choice isn't based on what everyone else wants for you since it is your life. It sounds like you have been doing all of the right things by not just looking at the statistics about these schools, but rather visiting them and getting a feel from the students that already go there. In retrospect I should have done a little more of that! I am by no means bitter about my choice to go to my dream school because I have made really great friends, lived it up in an entirely different atmosphere and now I will go back without any regrets or "what ifs?"

Enjoy your senior year!

[DeltAlum]

Since I sort of imposed my own son's college trials and tribulations on Newbie's thread, I though I should let you all know the outcome.

As you know, he has auditioned for and been accepted by, and torn between, four of the highest ranked music/musical theatre schools in the country -- and then was offered an almost full ride academic scholarship by a university he didn't even apply to.

He chose the latter.

We visited the campus last Friday and Saturday, he auditioned -- and he discovered that he really liked the campus, the people there and especially the Honors College. This was at a school he thought was a second class program in the middle of nowhere. It turns out that it has more National Merit Finalists per capita than any other school in the country. And they really made him feel wanted.

So, it's so long to Northwestern, Cincinnati CCM, Boston Conservatory and Indiana School of Music.

Next fall, Zak will be one of only 14 admitted this year to the new Musical Theatre program at Oklahoma University.

Unbelievable!

The nice part is that we will be much more able to help him with potential things like study abroad, etc. with the money we won't have to spend on tuition, room and board, books and other expenses.

Seems like a real win-win to me.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

WOW! DeltAlum you sound/type like a very proud father! A full scholarship is a rare honor. Zak must be a very special and extremely talented young man!

[justamom]

Delt Alum, just read your post about being a hiring manager and your take on schools and experince to Hubby. He and I both agree with everything you said. In fact, he argued many of your points to a golf buddy recently.

Congratulations to your son! How fantastic for all of you.

Newbie, there's a lot to be said for saving the bucks for the bigger bang-Graduate School. Since we have TOPS (free tuition with the right GPA) we told our kids they will go to LSU and ANY GRAD SCOOL that will accept them. (Had to add-ON THIS CONTINENT for my daugher) Sweetie-there is no doubt in my mind you will be a success WHERE EVER you go-what ever you do. You seem wise beyond your years.

[AchtungBaby80]

Newbie,

I know it's rough, but I think you should listen to what everyone has been saying because they've made some good points. I was in the same boat you are, trying to decide between a more prestigious (and more expensive) school and a cheaper one that everyone else in my family went to (where I would have gotten a full ride). Ultimately I decided on the more expensive one because I felt that my classmates and everyone else expected me to (because I was "too smart" for the other one), and because I thought a degree from that school would be worth more. Am I happier? No, probably not. My mom had put away some money to send me to school, but it wasn't enough to cover all four years and I feel really, really bad. I worry about money A LOT. I'm in a sorority, too, so that makes me feel doubly guilty (even though I have a very part-time job to help throw off some of those costs). My mom never got to go to college so I think she wants me to take advantage of the opportunities she never had, which is why I believe she supported me on the whole sorority thing, but it still bothers me a little that I could have gotten an undergrad degree for practically free instead of having to pay through the nose. I've also had to push myself really hard--sometimes I envy my friends who can take only 15 hours per semester, because I have to have at least 18 every time so I can graduate on time. We aren't destitute and considering the out-of-pocket expenses (I have no scholarships--but that's a whole other issue and I'm afraid I'll spit nails if I go into it) we're managing well, but it still weighs on my mind. And the thing is, I don't really even LIKE this school! I'm more of a country girl, and this campus is in the middle of a city. But it's too late to back out now, because I'm a junior now and I might as well just finish it out.

But guess what I'm doing the fall after I graduate? I plan to go to the cheaper school (which is very good about handing out financial aid) and get another undergraduate degree--one that I can actually use. So my personal opinion (and you can take this with a grain of salt! ) is that you should go to the school you *know* you would have no problem paying for. You really don't want to spend your time at college feeling guilty or worrying about the undue financial stress on your family...it's just not worth it. Then, after you get a bachelor's degree, you can go to your "dream school." I suppose I should have listened to my family when they tried to convince me that it really doesn't matter where you go to school if you're not going to be a doctor, a lawyer, or a pharmacist, but I didn't. I had to learn that one the not-so-easy way, but you don't have to!

[amycat412]

Car-

I don't envy you your confusion right now.

But, as a USC alum who is STILL paying off the 25K that I still owe after 10 years, I feel qualified to say--

My USC experience--both academically and socially was worth every penny.

You felt the Trojan Pride when you were on campus in August, and you know what I am talking about. To be a part of that family is an indescibably good feeling and is worth every penny I paid.

I passed up a full scholarship to the Univ of San Diego to take a partail scholarship at USC. It was worth it.

I passed up attending the cheaper UCs and CSUs where surely, had I even needed to take out loans, they would be paid off by now. It was worth it.

I passed up a full scholarship to ASU. It was worth it.

And, in my experience, where you went to undergrad can play a huge part in what grad shcools will even consider you. And should you take a break between undergrad and grad school, the quality of the education and experience you have at USC can prepare you so well for the challenges you face post graduation.

Now, all that said, WHEREVER you decide to go, I am sure you will have a wonderful experience and enjoy it to the fullest-- that is the kind of person you are.

I don't think you will regret the decision you make once you are immersed in campus life.

But waiting for the financial aid packages is a wise move. USC may surprise you. I hope they do.

Fight On!
Amy

[newbie]

Hello all!

You all are wonderful!! Thank you, each one of you, for giving me advice. It's awesome to hear more "impartial" advice than that of my friends', teachers', and family's.

Cougar -- you are so sweet! Thanks for your input!! I am so glad that you've made the most of your "dream school" experience. I've heard so much about how it's up to the student to make college great! You know what? The weird thing is that a lot of people want me to go to Davis, either because they're going, too, or because they feel that USC is too pricey. But all of my close friends who know me so well and my teachers who I'm close to all insist that I choose 'SC, because they know how much I love USC. I used to (and still do!) talk nonstop about USC -- every word about college would be USC-this, USC-that. In fact, I initially taped the show "Undeclared" solely BECAUSE it is filmed at USC! I would watch the show and go, "Hey Mom, look at how beautiful the campus is! I walked on that campus! " Luckily, the show turned out to be one of my favorites, too. Haha, my sister, when hearing that I taped Undeclared initially only because it's filmed at USC, would go, "Hey!! More people film at UCLA!" LOL. (Always a perpetual rivalry/hate between UCLA and USC.)

DeltAlum, again -- CONGRATS!! I'm so happy for you, your son, and your family. I'm so glad that your son just fell in love with OU. That undescribable feeling is amazing -- and I'm so glad that he felt it! I know he'll have an awesome four years there!

Justamom -- thanks so much for your vote of confidence in me . Your post just made me smile from ear to ear! I know that I'd be doing my family a HUGE favor by choosing UCD (where we will have no prob paying for it -- we don't even qualify for aid), but I don't want to forever think, "Would my life have been different had I chosen USC?" USC has always been my dream school, and I was shocked when I got in. I thought I had no chance, being that last year's entering freshman class had an average high school GPA of 3.93 -- what I definitely don't have. I was also terrified because the people that got in at my school all have 4.2s and 1400+ SATs (which is especially scary because I attend an academic magnet school...just think what their GPAs would be at an easier HS! ). So I was especially excited when I got in.

I don't know, it's just that USC is what I've always looked for in a college, and while UCD is a great school, too, it does not have the key qualities I look for in a college (school spirit, school pride, the "family" aspect that USC has, great sports (I don't mean to be shallow, but there's something amazing about going to a football game in college with all your friends and knowing that your team has a chance to win the championship...and cheering your team on with a bunch of passionate fans...what a memory that would be!). So maybe these qualities shouldn't cost at least $20,000 more (what USC is vs. UCD)...but maybe, just maybe, it's worth it. After all, I want to look back fondly on my collegiate years and think, "College -- the greatest 4 years of my life."

AchtungBaby,
thank you for your post. I'm so sorry that you have not absolutely loved your experience at your college. This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Even if somehow I manage to send my SIR to USC (an uphill battle which my family -- perhaps with the exception of my dad -- will adamantly disagree with), I hope I won't end up regretting it and thinking, "Ughh...why didn't I just choose Davis." Ahh! I'm just so confused. My heart's saying, "GO TO USC," my mind's saying, "I really want to go to USC, but maybe I should be smart and go to Davis, where I'll save tons of money."



Amy -- first off, and most importantly, Happy, Happy Birthday!!!!! You are an amazing person and I'm so glad to have gotten to know you. I hope that this birthday will be most memorable (in a good way!) and that this year will give you the most joy that you've ever known!! Because you deserve it, Amy, my Trojan friend . You are always so patient and give such great support when I need it most! You are amazing!!!!!

YES, I definitely felt the Trojan pride the moment I stepped onto campus. Very scary, being that the moment I stepped out of the parking lot and onto the campus, I thought, "This is it!!!! I love it!! I have to go here!!!" Incredibly strange. When I tell people this, they look at me all funny. It's so undescribable and I think that people have to visit USC to understand it! While I love the Davis atmosphere, too, it took me a good 30 minutes on campus or so for me to truly say that I liked it.

I feel much better reading your post. It helps to hear from a USC person , being that I don't know anyone else who goes/went there! (Well, with exception of the tour guide...whom I still email from time to time...but she's obviously biased!)

I am so glad that you chose USC over those other schools that offered you a full ride! You clearly love USC so much and that is awesome. I hope that whereever I go (right now I'm hoping it is USC!!), I'll have that exact same pride for my school that you have.

YES, I agree with you wholeheartedly! I believe that where you go for undergrad is very important for grad school admission. I truly believe that. Of course, grades and activities in college matter just as much, but I believe that if all were equal, the student who attended the more prestigious college would win admission.

Amy, I really hope the fin aid package comes SOON. Unfortunately, my dad forgot to send in a piece of information to the fin aid office (ahh), and USC couldn't process my app until they had received everyting! So my mom sent in the last piece of info a few days ago. I might not receive the fin aid letter till a week before May 1st .

Also, youknow what, on my way home, I always see this guy wearing a USC jacket. I am always so tempted to say, "Fight on!" or, "You went to USC? That is sooo cool...I want to go there!" So far, I've had restraint...but I swear, I'm so close to saying "Fight on!" ...

To everyone --Oh! Another thing. Yesterday I was at my school's college center and checked out 4 books on the subject of "making that crucial college decision." I took many evaluative quizzes, and all the quizzes pinpointed my need for teacher-student interaction and class discussions (I learn well with discussions...not too well with lectures -- I get bored easily. I also LOVE to speak in class). It also had advice on choosing the right academic atmosphere. This I'm confused with. The thing is, at Davis, I'll probably be "more academically ahead" than most students there (based on GPA and SATs). At USC, the majority of the students there will have had better GPAs and SATs than me. The book said to choose the "easier" college if you want to breeze through colelge with many 'A's. It said to choose the harder one if you want to be challenged. I have no idea what I want. I mean, I already attend a very challenging HS (supposedly in the top 10 or 15 public schools in all of the U.S.), and there are pros and cons. Pros are that it really pushes me to try my hardest and that it supposedly will prepare me WELL for college. Cons are the constant, stressful competition and the fact that teachers pile on work and rarely give 'A's. So I don't know what I want in college? I mean, I'd love to breeze through school, but also, I know I'd reach my "full potential" (sorry, cheesy) by attending a challenging school. Ahh! I don't know!

Also, I don't want to go to a college where so many ppl from my HS are going. So many are going to Davis. (We're a feeder school to Davis and Berkeley.) Only about 3 or so are headed to 'SC.

Thank you again everyone for being so patient and giving me advice -- I'm so sorry that I've probably given you guys an eyestrain from the long post!