Infraction stories

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No, you haven't. The freshmen get to know the sorority women as normal people, not as some sort of superhuman being. That's the whole point. If sorority members don't go out and try to meet women on their own, that's their problem.

Are some people going to shitty things like promise bids? Probably. But I personally think the solution lies in educating the rushees - i.e. telling them that people who do that are bad people and should be taken with a grain of salt. If you can tell them that women aren't talking to them because of silence rules, and expect them to understand that, you can just as easily tell them what is and isn't dirty rushing and expect them to understand that as well.

lane swerver alert/

Your response reminds me of what some people said in response to the NPHC ban on "pledging" in 1990, which is that something shouldn't be banned just because some people will violate basic guidelines. Instead of banning something altogether, have certain guidelines and educate the pledges and members about what to look out for and the proper channels to take if there's even a hint of a violation.

However, while that makes good darn sense, it doesn't really work that way most of the time and that's why certain rules and bans were implemented in the first place. Our organizations have to protect themselves from what can possibly happen with thousands of members within hundreds of collegiate and alumnae chapters.

/lane swerver alert

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by chickenoodle

I guess that makes more sense. I was like, but... they have new members... that would be a very awkward party...

Thanks for helping me understand it better.

It's not so much for the new members and sorority members. Of course, they are free to talk to whomever once they get a bid.

Silence stays in effect as far as PNMs who didn't get bids or withdrew from recruitment.

A chapter member may not contact a PNM who was released or withdrew from recruitment until after midnight.

It happens that chapters would see that a woman they liked dropped out, then they would try to call and offer her a bid the day of Pref and Bid Night (obviously that's not supposed to happen because formal is still going on).

Panhellenic wanted us to know exactly when formal was over, and we were allowed to contact women about COB/Informal.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Yep, few exceptions to the rule. Only in the event of a major family tragedy could you talk to your biological sister at my school. A few exceptions were also made for those on a fall sports team with games and stuff going on (volleyball, soccer, etc). We also assumed that all freshman were PNMs, so in the summer and those few weeks before formal rush started, the infraction rules still applied.

I wasn't allowed to talk to my biological sister when I went through rush. Luckily, we did rush (it was still rush then!) before school started, and it only lasted a week. She was in Monroe all summer working while I was in Baton Rouge, so we didn't talk much before I went to rush, either. (This was in the olden days before all you can talk cell phone plans when long distance phone calls cost an arm and a leg!)

[MaggieXi]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But if you let them really "get to know" the freshmen then you've opened up the doors for a lot of dirty rushing. I agree that if it's a deferred rush a semester long silence is just silly, but for the first 2 weeks or so it's manageable. And we typically wore letters the WHOLE time so it was really obvious that we weren't just ignoring someone in class for kicks.

I agree to an extent. It depends on the campus too. My reference is a campus where recruitment isn't until the last week of January and freshman move in in August. The rules are very strict, too strict in my opinion, and are not really explained to freshman until December.

If you are a freshman woman sitting in her first ever college class, and she happens to sit down next to a greek woman and tries to have a conversation with her, and all the greek woman can do is say "Hi" for fear of an infraction, I think it could be completely off putting to someone who may know nothing about sororities.

I believe that for campus's with deferred recruitment, there may be a push from national headquarters to "get to know" girls before recruitment starts. With this pressure and the rules put in place at a strict campus, it leaves the sorority between a rock and a hard place - either follow the campus rules to the letter or try to get to know freshman per their nationals, and run the risk of getting an infraction.

Do I think its wrong to bid promise, give a PNM gifts, take them out drinking, tell them that they should only rush XYZ - absolutely. But I also think it rediculous that if a PNM asks you for directions to get to their next class or to ask you to pass the salt you could also get an infraction for that.

It also does not help when you have sororities on campus that spend the first 5 months of school trolling to get other sororities in trouble.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No, you haven't. The freshmen get to know the sorority women as normal people, not as some sort of superhuman being. That's the whole point. If sorority members don't go out and try to meet women on their own, that's their problem.

Are some people going to shitty things like promise bids? Probably. But I personally think the solution lies in educating the rushees - i.e. telling them that people who do that are bad people and should be taken with a grain of salt. If you can tell them that women aren't talking to them because of silence rules, and expect them to understand that, you can just as easily tell them what is and isn't dirty rushing and expect them to understand that as well.

But it's not in a PNM's interest report or ignore dirty rushing. A promised bid for them is a positive.

I think it would just lead to "enforced" getting to know the freshmen instead of silence and a lot more of the "buy drinks for the freshmen" sort of dirty rushing too. (When you're talking about non-deferred freshmen rush, not deferred or sophomore rush).

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But it's not in a PNM's interest report or ignore dirty rushing. A promised bid for them is a positive.

A promised bid is not positive.

Yes, if the bid is promised and they actually wind up getting a bd there, then it is.

But more often than not, the member doing the promising doesn't REALLY know if said PNM will receive a bid. She has no clue how matching will play out.

I've heard many times of PNMs being bid promised at Pref, and getting a bid to a different chapter. It's a very heartbreaking situation, as the PNM essentially thought she was guaranteed to be an XYZ on Bid Night.

Then there's always the indirect promising that some members do without realizing. Example: "Can't want to see you tomorrow!" Said member doesn't know if she WILL see her tomorrow, and that can be taken as a promise as well.

[VandalSquirrel]

I also wish there was a way to address the idle gossip that is damaging; discussing a chapter closing when it isn't. To me that is just as bad as bid promising, and hurts the whole system.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I also wish there was a way to address the idle gossip that is damaging; discussing a chapter closing when it isn't. To me that is just as bad as bid promising, and hurts the whole system.

When I was on campus, a chapter received some sanctions from their HQ which affected their social calendar.

Somehow, this led to PNMs thinking that this chapter was closing (no clue how that came to be). Girls were asking other PNMs in their groups and even girls in other chapters about it.

We were told by Panhellenic that if we were asked about their situation, to tactfully let PNMs know that all chapters were very strong and thriving. If asked any further, we were to let them know (tactfully) that we did not know the details and to ask the GA or one of their PXs.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

A promised bid is not positive.

Yes, if the bid is promised and they actually wind up getting a bd there, then it is.

But more often than not, the member doing the promising doesn't REALLY know if said PNM will receive a bid. She has no clue how matching will play out.

I've heard many times of PNMs being bid promised at Pref, and getting a bid to a different chapter. It's a very heartbreaking situation, as the PNM essentially thought she was guaranteed to be an XYZ on Bid Night.

Then there's always the indirect promising that some members do without realizing. Example: "Can't want to see you tomorrow!" Said member doesn't know if she WILL see her tomorrow, and that can be taken as a promise as well.

Right, but most PNMs think their promised bid is real as you said.

I'm talking though that if there weren't silence rules at all, sororities could essentially put together their bid list before round 1 and have promised said bids to the PNMs. We've seen how even on relatively non-competitive friendly campuses rush can turn chapters nasty. With the current national emphasis on numbers (because they're needed to stay competitive) I don't see a more relaxed even fraternity style rush working. As long as quota must be achieved or else it's going to be pretty cutthroat.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

When I was on campus, a chapter received some sanctions from their HQ which affected their social calendar.

Somehow, this led to PNMs thinking that this chapter was closing (no clue how that came to be). Girls were asking other PNMs in their groups and even girls in other chapters about it.

We were told by Panhellenic that if we were asked about their situation, to tactfully let PNMs know that all chapters were very strong and thriving. If asked any further, we were to let them know (tactfully) that we did not know the details and to ask the GA or one of their PXs.

This is why I do like a school that is organized and involved. UW (Huskies) and WSU (Cougars) have information on their pages about campus orgs. and their status. Though most incoming freshmen won't look, their parents might and it could make a difference. We haven't had issues while at my time at Idaho, but it seems we're open about RM issues as one can find it in the student paper with quotes from the Dean of Students. Smaller social issues are discussed, mostly men's groups, but I have yet to see it really hurt a chapter to have social sanctions.

Let's be honest, people will have socials even when they aren't supposed to, it hurts more when they can't participate in Homecoming and Greek Week.

[honeychile]

I'll be honest - I'm not a fan of deferred recruitment. If you remember my rush story, ours was deferred, and I was dirty rushed all over the place. I even had people calling and writing to me over the summer prior to my freshman year! I was promised bids from the second party on, I could go on and on about dirty rushing.

FWIW, I'm also not a fan of the 6-8 week New Member period.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Let's be honest, people will have socials even when they aren't supposed to, it hurts more when they can't participate in Homecoming and Greek Week.

See, and this was a part of those sanctions. No Homecoming, Greek Week, Derby Days, etc. The inability to particpate in activities like that is what led PNMs to think they were closing.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I'll be honest - I'm not a fan of deferred recruitment. If you remember my rush story, ours was deferred, and I was dirty rushed all over the place. I even had people calling and writing to me over the summer prior to my freshman year! I was promised bids from the second party on, I could go on and on about dirty rushing.

FWIW, I'm also not a fan of the 6-8 week New Member period.

I like having a semester to settle into college, live in a dorm and make friends, join later, and have at least one semester of college complete. I think rushing and joining so early can be detrimental to a person who is going through the huge life change of college. What's wrong with having a panhellenic set up for majors where you can meet students who have taken your courses, go do a big philanthropy project, see the groups, and not make a decision before you step foot in a classroom.

If we're going to promote lifelong membership and involvement, we need to stop focusing on the first semester and showcase our alumnae and that we are not four years and something you do just in college.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

If we're going to promote lifelong membership and involvement, we need to stop focusing on the first semester and showcase our alumnae and that we are not four years and something you do just in college.

THIS.

Nowadays, we have skit day, sisterhood day, go Greek day, etc. during recruitment.

I have a really crazy idea.

I would absolutely LOVE for NPC to move toward having Panhellenics include an "Alumnae Life" or "XYZ After college" day into recruitment.

Just as you learn about the house in House Tour Day, or the philanthropy on Philanthropy Day, have a day where you discuss life in XYZ sorority AFTER college.

Have some alumnae from your nearest alumna chapter come talk about their chapter activities, a regional staffer come talk about her experiences, etc.

Just as we showcase our homes, activities, philanthropies, etc. during recruitment, we need to showcase the lifetime commitment that our orgs are.

We have alumnae life included in our NM ed sequence and in the senior sequence of our member ed program, but it would be nice to start out with recruitment so PNMs know before getting involved that it is for life.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

THIS.

Nowadays, we have skit day, sisterhood day, go Greek day, etc. during recruitment.

I have a really crazy idea.

I would absolutely LOVE for NPC to move toward having Panhellenics include an "Alumnae Life" or "XYZ After college" day into recruitment.

Just as you learn about the house in House Tour Day, or the philanthropy on Philanthropy Day, have a day where you discuss life in XYZ sorority AFTER college.

Have some alumnae from your nearest alumna chapter come talk about their chapter activities, a regional staffer come talk about her experiences, etc.

Just as we showcase our homes, activities, philanthropies, etc. during recruitment, we need to showcase the lifetime commitment that our orgs are.

We have alumnae life included in our NM ed sequence and in the senior sequence of our member ed program, but it would be nice to start out with recruitment so PNMs know before getting involved that it is for life.

You are onto something. We certainly have enough alums hanging around recruitment looking for something to do to help out, and if not, what better way to bring alums back to help out their local collegiate chapters!

I'm surprised that NPC hasn't thought of this before.