Retro Recruitment.....with a different ending

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

To me that seems like the best procedure. I don't know why more schools don't do this.

More schools are switching to PNMs ranking after each round rather than PNMs receiving their invites on in-between days. They rank chapters and then get a schedule generated based on where they are invited back and their rankings if necessary. Say a PNM is invited back to 11 of a possible 10 parties. She would get a schedule with her lowest remaining choice eliminated.

It is so much better this way because:

1. PNMs and Rho Gammas get a day "off" in between rounds, which makes things less stressful for these parties.
2. PNMs are more likely to stay in recruitment. If they get released from a chapter they like, they have a whole day to think about it and possibly drop out. If they get their schedule right then and there, they will probably stick it out at least one more round because they are dressed and ready to go. This is definitely the biggest reason.

There are downsides to this system, but I think the pros outweigh the cons:

1. PNMs think they have more control than they really do. They might be wondering why they are going back to their last choice since they thought they "cut" them. However, this is easily alleviated when Rho Gammas explain that they may have to go back to their last choices depending on where they get invited back.
2. PNMs like the flattery of being able to see everywhere they received invitations. For example, if a PNM gets invited back everywhere after round 1, she'd see that when she gets her invite list. Whereas, she could see that she got all 10 (or whatever) of her top choices and not know whether she cut the chapters or if they cut her. A weak con.
3. PNMs may be so distraught by not getting any chapters they are interested in back that they are not in an emotional state to go to a party. This is the only legitimate con, but I think more PNMs are likely to stick with recruitment than to be in this state.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

To me that seems like the best procedure. I don't know why more schools don't do this.

The process PeppyGPhiB describes is called Accept/Regret - where chapters issue invitations and PNMs pick the ones they want to attend up to the max allowed for that round. The other option is called Priority Ranking where chapters submit lists privately, PNMs rank privately, and the computer matches them up. The reasons some Panhellenics choose Priority over A/R are many, including:

a - less time required. Meaning you don't have to schedule a separate time for PNMs to look at invites one at a time and select.

b - less opportunity for "tent talk" where PNMs can be influenced by others on what invites to select. Tent talk isn't just limited to the time between seeing the invites and accepting them. It could happen overnight. When girls rank right after the parties, they are more likely to choose what THEY want rather than listen to what other PNMs think they should do.

c - less "public" embarrassment for the PNM. If someone she privately ranked high cuts her, she doesn't have to admit it if she gets a list that is already matched for her and they aren't there. It won't be as public to see all the girls who get 12 invites to the 7 party round when she only has 4. With Priority, the girls who technically got invited to all 12 will only have 7 on their list, which is only 3 more than the girls who got cut by all but 4.

There are other pros and cons for both A/R and for Priority. If using the new RFM, it is easier to adjust the numbers for chapters who are having an unusually bad or unusually good year if they are using Priority. It's just up to the Panhellenic system and what they think works best! Neither way is wrong - just different for different reasons.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

AlwaysSAI, whenever you want to tell us the next part of your story, I'm so ready to read it.

Hahaha. Is that just because I'm an Alpha Gam legacy. hehe. jk jk.

I was debating......there are three hours left of work.....but, I have lots to do....check email, surf facebook/myspace.....gosh! such a busy busy person I am!



I manage all the computer labs on campus....so my job consists of, well, staring at the screen all day. Although, I occasionally have to open labs or mediate problems.

[Low C Sharp]

I would have to disagree that women dropped by all groups are all socially tone deaf. There are probably some of them out there....but, I think it is unfair to lump those of us that were dropped by all orgs into an umbrella judgement.

If you read my post, you will see that I did everything I could to present the best side of myself to orgs and show my dedication to greek life.

I'm sorry, AlwaysSAI, I wasn't talking about you! I was speculating about what would happen if the type of girls that were discussed in the "Psycho/Stalker PNM" thread rushed at Tufts, where they have to be accepted somewhere. Someone here told a story about a girl who was cut early on but showed up at bid day at the house and cried, hung out outside the house during meetings, etc. That clearly isn't you. But I wonder what in the world they do with "that" girl at Tufts, because you know that there's one of her (or more) at every campus. Nothing can really get the message across to people who lack the skills to hear it.
________
Live Sex

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

OtterXO, your comment confuses me a little: if you still have to go back to the maximum number of parties, why is this better than ranking them first?

To me, it still seems like most of the control is with the group.

AlwaysSAI, whenever you want to tell us the next part of your story, I'm so ready to read it.

To continue the hijack... . (I would love to hear more of the story too!) I think it's best to see all your options before you decide who to cut. If you're forced to rank the chapters after attending the parties, you have to cut a proscribed number of houses. The chances are pretty good that you'd cut a house who invited you back and you'd end up not attending the next day's parties at that house...even if they were someone you didn't 100% want to cut. I just think you should know where you are invited back before making any decision or be given the "decline with regret" option when cutting a house.

Edit: after reading the posts above I see the pros and cons of each system, so now I'm not so sure what I think....haha

[Faith4Keep]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

I was debating......there are three hours left of work.....but, I have lots to do....check email, surf facebook/myspace.....gosh! such a busy busy person I am!

Oh, come on, update!!! I want to hear the rest!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

To continue the hijack... . (I would love to hear more of the story too!) I think it's best to see all your options before you decide who to cut. If you're forced to rank the chapters after attending the parties, you have to cut a proscribed number of houses. The chances are pretty good that you'd cut a house who invited you back and you'd end up not attending the next day's parties at that house...even if they were someone you didn't 100% want to cut. I just think you should know where you are invited back before making any decision or be given the "decline with regret" option when cutting a house.

Edit: after reading the posts above I see the pros and cons of each system, so now I'm not so sure what I think....haha

Oh, Oh, I see what you were thinking. No, actually when you rank after the parties, you're are just ranking; you don't actually cut anyone. You're right that you don't get to see that all of the invited you back, but you get invited back to all that will fit in your schedule who wanted to invite you. Even if you ranked them beyond the number that you thought you could go back to, if your didn't get invited back to some of your top picks, those chapters fill in the rest.

[AlwaysSAI]

Well, I'm bored, so here it goes.

It's Friday and I feel like my week has gone swimmingly! I wore a Karen Scott linen skirt that was all kinds of bright colors and a pink top. As I was walking to my group's meeting place a sister of Phi Mu and the Greek advisor were standing in the hallway. The both commented on how beautiful my skirt was. I gleefully said Thanks, and continued on. (but, after such a comment, I knew I had chosen a memorable outfit )

At this point, a lot of girls were upset with their results. One girl in my group was a far off relative of an ADPi founder and had been dropped, so she was upset. Another girl in my group told me the story of her friend who quit because she had been dropped by Chi Omega. And, a lot of girls in my group were griping about being invited back to Sigma.

I went up to my favorite Pi Chi, Amanda, who was about to hand out invitations. Of course, I am always last because my last name starting with W and I could barely contain myself waiting for my invites. I practically snatched it out of her hand as she teasingly handed it to me. I opened it and was THRILLED!!! She said that I reminded her of herself when she went through recruitment because she was also super excited.

For Skit Night, I was invited back to:
Alpha Chi Omega
Sigma Sigma Sigma

I quickly texted my sister the results before they made us give them all of our stuff. Needless to say, I was thrilled. While I was really enjoying Tri Sigma, I also recognized that Alpha Chi Omega was a great group of women and I wanted to see more of them as well.

First, I visited Alpha Chi Omega. Their skit was about a freshman woman who rushed and was excited to be excepted in AXO. The skit was great and I was able to spend a good amount of time talking to the only African American member of an NPC org on our campus at that time. I really admired them for their diversity. We talked about rising gas prices and just random stuff. At the end of the night all the sisters got in a circle and sang a song. I could tell that all the sisters of this org were really close to each other. I could see myself happy in this org.

Last, I visited Sigma Sigma Sigma. Of course, I was thrilled to see them again. Their skit was 80's themed and they sang all sorts of songs changing the words to fit Sigma. The first girl that rushed me didn't have much to say. She just kind of looked at. I don't think she was good at small talk. The second girl that rushed me started a conversation that I found really odd for this situation. She started talking about how people around campus and in her classes will turn up their nose at her or refuse to do group work with her when she's wearing letters because of the stereotypes surrounding greeks. I made a few comments about how she could break down those stereotypes and how many times people are intimidated by something unfamiliar with them. So, maybe they weren't being mean, they were just uninformed. I also talked about how a lot of things have that kind of social stigma around them, but that many times, such things never turn out to be true. I tried to keep good conversation, but I found it odd that she would choose to discuss that at recruitment. I wasn't sure what to do.

I finished recruitment tonight feeling a little unsure about it all. I wasn't sure how things had gone at Sigma because of the strange conversation topic. But, I realized that some girls may not know what to talk about at rush and I also realized that I wasn't going to click with every single sister, no matter what chapter I joined.

Tonight, I ranked the chapters as follows:

Sigma Sigma Sigma
Alpha Chi Omega

I went home, thrilled for the weeks ending and almost being done with recruitment. I called my sister, who, of course wanted every little detail. During her recruitment, she was dropped by her chapter of Alpha Chi Omega, so I wanted to make sure that if I joined this chapter, she would be okay. She said she had found her home in Alpha Gam and she wanted me to be happy where I went.

I went to bed.....only hoping for the best. And, realizing how lucky I was to have come this far.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

At former campus, I believe a group really would be better off consistently making quota, even with some girls who weren't their absolute top picks, than they would be consistently being perceived as being a struggling chapter.

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

I think I would rather a chapter be choosy and not at total than to take just anyone to reach quota/total and be given any one of a number of negative stereotypes because of the image given off by the undesirable new members. Then again, it seems that at big campuses, chapters are considered struggling if they don't make quota no matter how awesome their new member classes are... so I think a lot of groups make concessions and take people who aren't their "top picks" to make quota without being required to take whatever is necessary to fill quota. Yes, there are always girls who fall through the cracks (see my Retro thread) who might have benefitted from the guaranteed system, but that doesn't mean that everyone who rushes is a good fit for a house.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

Come on! I totally posted my Skit Day like 5 min before you posted that ^^^^.


I doubt I'll get the end of it posted before the end of the work day, but NOT TO FEAR! I have internet at home.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

To continue the hijack... . (I would love to hear more of the story too!) I think it's best to see all your options before you decide who to cut. If you're forced to rank the chapters after attending the parties, you have to cut a proscribed number of houses. The chances are pretty good that you'd cut a house who invited you back and you'd end up not attending the next day's parties at that house...even if they were someone you didn't 100% want to cut. I just think you should know where you are invited back before making any decision or be given the "decline with regret" option when cutting a house.

Edit: after reading the posts above I see the pros and cons of each system, so now I'm not so sure what I think....haha

Yeah like Alphagamuga said, the ranking lists are only used if a PNM is invited to more chapters than there are parties for the next round. PNMs put chapters in a "drop list" but they only actually cut those chapters if they get all of their top picks for the next round.

[FSUZeta]

you know, this(rankings/guaranteed placement) would be a great thread topic on its own. it is an interesting topic.

alwaysSAI, i hope that you will post some more tonight!

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

Come on! I totally posted my Skit Day like 5 min before you posted that ^^^^.

Haha, I guess I was in the midst of typing when you posted.

I hate reading knowing that there is going to be sadness at some point, but it's still interesting to hear your story!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

I think I would rather a chapter be choosy and not at total than to take just anyone to reach quota/total and be given any one of a number of negative stereotypes because of the image given off by the undesirable new members. Then again, it seems that at big campuses, chapters are considered struggling if they don't make quota no matter how awesome their new member classes are... so I think a lot of groups make concessions and take people who aren't their "top picks" to make quota without being required to take whatever is necessary to fill quota. Yes, there are always girls who fall through the cracks (see my Retro thread) who might have benefited from the guaranteed system, but that doesn't mean that everyone who rushes is a good fit for a house.

I think it depends on who you are talking about taking and what reason you'd have for being reluctant.

In the few years I participated in rush as a member, I think there were girls who were cut who were of comparable "quality" to the girls in the membership (and I think we had great members). The ones who were released maybe didn't get the benefits of a great rusher to draw them out or might have made a bad superficial first impression. Sometimes it becomes clear because there's a second chance with COB or informal and you actually get the exact same girl you cut in the fall. And as alums, we have all known excellent young women who we can't figure out why anyone would have cut who get released by groups where they would have been perfect members.

Of course we know others with bad reputations, low grades, or other reasons why we sort of expect them to have a bad rush.

It's hard to see why it harms a group to take any girls in the first category, especially if all the groups have to take a few not just the ones with lower numbers.

I don't know what you'd do about the second group, and it's a kind of serious problem because girls with well earned bad reputations can do some serious harm to the group overall.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I don't know what you'd do about the second group, and it's a kind of serious problem because girls with well earned bad reputations can do some serious harm to the group overall.

Yeah, because I'd seriously be concerned about becoming the "stoner house," the "slutty house," the "stupid house," etc. because of a group of PNMs that were forced on me if I went to a school with guaranteed bidding. I'm not sure how fair it would be to force members on a house who were cut for big things like grades or well-earned bad reputations, both of which could ultimately harm the rep of the entire house. Does anyone who goes to a school with this system know if there are provisions for this (that aren't invasive into groups' MS decisions)?