ITT We Discuss Theology

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Banthus

Dude you're an idiot.

Are you trying to get banned?

[DubaiSis]

OK, I'll jump in! I was raised Catholic but am firmly in the Agnostic camp these days. The easiest way for me to explain it is I don't believe in RELIGION. I think the movie Dogma does a tragically good job of explaining what's wrong with organized religion.

I took a couple religion courses in college (taught by a Rabbi who was one of the most popular professors there) and really enjoyed them but they probably were a big cause of me dumping religion as a practice. The more I learned about the bible the more I felt like it's simply a work of fiction, is in general not a manual for a good life (even though that's what we're told), stole so fast and loose from older religions that it's laughable and has been modified too many times for political reasons to be trusted. By the time I'd reached my late 20's the writing was pretty much on the wall for me, and after meeting my husband, the son and grandson of THREE evangelical ministers (2 were the bad kind; one actually believed in helping people less fortunate), it became very easy to quit the pretense of belief in dogma. Yes, he's everything you'd expect - took drugs, in a punk band, dropped out of high school, etc. etc. If I'd have met him as a younger man there isn't a chance I'd have looked twice at him; well, except for his awesome rock star hair.

Interestingly, I work for an organization now that teaches the culture of the Emirates, and among that is the religion. So I know quite a bit about Islam. I have come to respect some parts of it, but again, most of the dogma is retarded and based in something important from 1600 years ago. The reason, for instance, that you don't eat pork is because you'll get trichinosis and die. Nobody has died of trichinosis in a seriously long time and I think that rule could be eliminated, but they can't because GOD told them so, 1600 years ago when there was no refrigeration and they lived in the desert.

So what DO I believe? And yes, there are several disconnects here, and I'm ok with that. I don't have to understand why these things resonate with me; they just do.
I believe in reincarnation, along the Buddhist principles of continuing on a path toward enlightenment. It helps me accept why some people who've never done anything bad to anyone seem to be constantly punished.
I believe that Ganesh is the cutest god, and the easiest to please (all you have to do is feed him).
I believe "god" is the spiritual life force in us, and is responsible for the Big Bang.
I believe evolution is real and people who don't believe this are seriously pathetic.
I believe being good is better than being strong
I believe going to church does not make you good
I believe any religion that focuses on negativity or punishment should be avoided at all cost. Do you go to church to feel better or to avoid going to hell?
I believe Catholicism is polytheism, which is fine with me. I think this is probably why non-Catholic christians probably see it as non-christian.
I believe everyone should have a day of rest.
I believe every marriage should start with a marriage contract, like that used in Islam.
I believe the world would probably be a better place without organized religion.
I believe in angels and ghosts but I have some work ahead of me to clarify that position.
I believe the incredible focus on christian based religion in US politics right now is to the detriment of the society as a whole. These people who think the founders were all christian are sorely mistaken and they are hurting everyone as a result. (cutting to the chase, UU and Deism are not christian)

And I was going to make a crack about the designated hitter, but I'll skip it. Suffice it to say I think it's the woosy way out. Man up and grab a bat!

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Me and Mary, we're tight. I pray a Hail Mary every day. But we also say a Lords prayer and the Nicene Creed at every mass. I always want to say the Nicene Creed when people tell me Catholics don't beleive the same thing "real Christians" do.

Those "Christians" are misinformed and ignorant. They usually get their information regarding Catholicism from their Protestant minister or even better, Dan Brown. What is sad is they are usually not interested in learning about what Catholicism teaches (which - hey - is not a big secret. It's all out there) They are quite happy with their misinformation and holier-than-thou piety.(see HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE for a fine example) It's truly sad. Just say a Hail Mary for them.

eta - I'll have to see if I can find it - there was a video of a Baptist minister who was quite upset at Baptists who wear choir robes. Apparently, that made them almost Catholic. My great - grandmother's comment when learning about my mother when she was engaged to my dad - "Bobby, what religion is she?" "Episcopalian". "That's almost as bad as a Catholic!"

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Well here's a question I have, coming form a Catholic's standpoint.

Several times recently, and less frequently in my younger years, some non-Catholic Christians have essentially told me that Catholics are not real Christians. A lot of other Catholics I know have said they've encountered the same thing. Why do some other Christians think that? I remember being a freshman in college, and a girl I became friends with down the hall grew up in the Baptist faith, and she would come to my room and I would do her eyebrows for her, and she'd always ask me stuff like "Why do you pray to saints? Why do they matter? Why do ya'll love Mary so much? Why do you go to confession?" And I'd answer her to the best of my ability (13 years of Catholic school prepped me for these visits!), but at the end of our conversations, she'd still say "Well, ya'll still aren't "real" Christians." What the hell does that MEAN?!?!

The most memorable one in recent memory was I went to a local Christian bookstore by my house this past spring, hoping to find a gift for my God-daughter's First Holy Communion. I wandered around for a while, not seeing what I was looking for, so I asked the girls at the checkout counter. Never in my life have I felt like such dirt! The one girls response, complete with sneer on her face, was "Well, you're just gonna have to go to a 'Catholic' bookstore for stuff like that, we don't recognize all that stuff, so we don't carry anything to support it." I'm standing there thinking... wtf? All I could say was "Ok, thanks." and I walked out.

Oh, and I found a perfect childs book of saints at a Catholic bookstore.

That's not a very Christian way for her to act.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Those "Christians" are misinformed and ignorant. They usually get their information regarding Catholicism from their Protestant minister or even better, Dan Brown. What is sad is they are usually not interested in learning about what Catholicism teaches (which - hey - is not a big secret. It's all out there) They are quite happy with their misinformation and holier-than-thou piety.(see HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE for a fine example) It's truly sad. Just say a Hail Mary for them.

The average person is not well-read and well informed regarding other denominations, other religions, and other anything for which they are not an affiliate.

On that note, there are nonCatholic Christians who have studied Catholicism (or used to be Catholics) and find Catholicism to be against the central tenets of Christianity. That includes people with degrees in theology and divinity who are fully aware of the "Christian aspects" of Catholicism, but chalk that up to the similarities across many religions. Along those lines1, there are Christian denominations/affiliations beyond Catholicism (i.e. Jehovah's Witness) that are very much dismissed by many mainstream Christians. If you ask the members of those denominations/affiliations (i.e. Jehovah's Witness) why they are dismissed they say "those 'Christians' are misinformed and ignorant...they get their information from their ministers...they don't want to learn about us...they are holier than thou and judgmental...." Along those lines2, Christian denominations/affiliations unfortunately exist for a reason and one of those reasons tends to be that people think that certain denominations have Christianity more figured out than the others.

Since we're discussing theology and not simply the internal mechanisms of religiosity and faith.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Hmmmm.....I always thought that Catholics were the "original" Christians.

The Eastern Orthodox would argue with you on that one.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Those "Christians" are misinformed and ignorant.

This, and historical prejudices and anymosities. And it can work both ways. I've heard the same thing from some Catholics -- that non-Catholics are not real Christians. Meanwhile, I've had some Baptists assure me that I'm not really baptized, as I was baptized as an infant. And so it goes.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

They usually get their information regarding Catholicism from their Protestant minister or even better, Dan Brown.

Just to be clear, there are lots of Protestant ministers out there that don't perpetuate steroetypes or mis-information about Catholicism. It's a certain subset of Protestantism where this is found.

And oy, Dan Brown.

[IrishLake]

Dubaisis, "Dogma" is one of my favorite movies.

[Gusteau]

IrishLake, you might like the book "Hail Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God" by Scott Hahn. He was a Presbyterian Minister, and fiercely anti-Catholic, later converted, and has written a bunch of good books about Catholicism through scripture. It was a great read, and uses scriptural references to defend Marian Devotion, which was one of Hahn's biggest problems with Catholicism. As a disclaimer, I don't agree with everything Hahn has written in some other works, but this one is solid.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Hmmmm.....I always thought that Catholics were the "original" Christians.

The United Methodist Church of my birth regards Catholics as the OGs of Christianity - they just think they do it better.

I haven't been big on the church or God thing in a few years. At this point, I don't know if I'll come back to the flock or not.

[DubaiSis]

Does anyone else think you're not really a fill in the blank thing about religion is just another way of saying I'm a better person than you and here's why?

If you put it in another context it sounds as icky as it is. You're not really Greek because you don't know the secret of LIBOS, or you're not really Greek because ADPi is the oldest. How long would any of those arguments last before the person was hammered into the ground?

All of the religions mentioned have their reasons for successful continued existence and every one of them has something that makes them ridiculous. Except for the Church of DubaiSis which is far superior and proves that you are all going to hell.

[IrishLake]

AND the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, because really, how could you go wrong there?

[IrishLake]

And Gusteau, I will look it up the next time I'm at the library!

[DubaiSis]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the one true god. It makes me laugh that people seriously don't get it about FSM.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AGDee

And, I will be the first to admit that my faith and belief system has nothing to do with logic, thinking, or reason. It has to do with a feeling... a feeling that I've felt often enough, while focused on God in prayer and a feeling that is kind of indescribable but it's like a complete and total peace and warmth that fills me up, particularly during times of total despair or grief. I have chosen to interpret that as a higher power of some sort. I'm also unsure how I'd ever deal with the loss of loved ones without believing in the afterlife. For example, I need to believe that I will see my mom again in the afterlife. It's a coping strategy. If I'm wrong, well, it still will have served a purpose in getting me through years of missing her.

My logical brain is part of me, and I can't turn it off and on at a whim. I'm aware that this is how I perceive the world and isn't the same for everyone. However, I also don't think I've ever considered the afterlife as a place for me to reconnect with others who have passed. I've felt like celebrating their life and mourning the loss of their presence is one thing, and the concept of them in the afterlife is another. But perhaps I've just never really expected an afterlife for myself. I'm not sure. I do certainly understand your perspective on it though.

[SWTXBelle]

MC - Oh, there are plenty of Catholics who don't know their own religion and end up spreading disinformation. That recent survey - http://religions.pewforum.org/ - which I take with the grain of salt with which I take all surveys - does point to the fact that most people are perfectly content to do what they've always done without being very concerned about knowing their - or anyone else's - beliefs very well.