NPC appoints Community College Task Force

[NYCMS]

Originally Posted by chi-o_cat

This does mean collegiate chapters would need to be open to a more diverse group of PNMs- you’re going to have older PNMs, PNMs with jobs, PNMs who live off-campus, PNMs who are first–generation college students. But if the point of the NPC task force looking into CCs in the first place is to expand membership beyond the usual low-hanging fruit, then this could be a place to start.

No. I agree with so many others that this is a really bad idea. How exactly does one have a cohesive (and yes still diverse) group when members are 18 and 40? Members who never have time for the sorority because of work? What's to stop a married gal from joining but not having time because of, well, she has a husband?

I have many childhood friends who went to CC for one primary reason: money. They needed lower costs and the ability to live at home, even if it was driving half an hour to school. Some completed a two-year degree and that was it. Others went to a four year school where most still had some type of part-time job to offset expenses. None of them had interest in Greek life, not that others wouldn't, but they didn't have the time nor the money.

Going the CC route feels like a very watered down experience that will open a Pandora's Box. No thank you.

[carnation]

[QUOTE=chi-o_cat;2475806

This does mean collegiate chapters would need to be open to a more diverse group of PNMs- you’re going to have older PNMs, PNMs with jobs, PNMs who live off-campus, PNMs who are first–generation college students. But if the point of the NPC task force looking into CCs in the first place is to expand membership beyond the usual low-hanging fruit, then this could be a place to start.[/QUOTE]

I've only been involved with chapters at medium sized or large universities. I can not see any of them wanting to pledge older women, women with (major) jobs, possibly off campus PNMs who might have time-consuming jobs or anti-Greek boyfriends. Their priorities lie elsewhere and no one wants ghost members who say they can't show up for required events because they have to work every day that week or their child is sick again. I have known of a couple of "older women" (ha!-both were 23) new members who did okay in their chapters but overall, they don't have the same mindset as younger women. We need women who will contribute a decent amount of time to their sororities!

I can in no way see any benefits to this idea.

[FSUZeta]

In my experience as a collegiate member and as an alumna and an advisor, my advice to someone who returned to college in her mid 20s or up, is that the collegiate sorority experience has sailed. She should put her talents toward some other endeavor. The chapter I advised had a 30 something, married with children, woman come through recruitment. The girls to a fault thought it was very strange that a woman they considered "old" was rushing, not to mention married and with children. And she seemed a lovely(although misdirected) woman.

I think these women long for something they did not have (or did not have the opportunity to have) when they were 18-21 years of age. A collegiate chapter is not the answer for them-whether at a community college or a 4 year institution.

[ChioLu]

UCLA accepts a large number of transfer students, from CCs and other universities.
Every year, one THIRD of the women going through recruitment are upperclassman. So, most new member classes are 1/3 upperclass. (If the NM class is 75 members, 25 NMs are sophomores, juniors and, even seniors. This works out well because it can lead to a bit more mature decision making in the NM class!) These upperclass members are usually very active in the chapter for the time they are at UCLA (meaning, through graduation) since they have less time as a collegiate member than someone who joined as a freshman.

Also, I used to live in Atlanta. I know there are sororities at large universities in the south that will NOT take affiliates from smaller chapters, even if the sister is a standout.

[Cheerio]

Another reason CC Clubs aren't really necessary: Most Alumnae Panhellenic groups do invite/welcome students transferring from CCs to their Spring/Summer Recrutment Information Sessions.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by NYCMS

Going the CC route feels like a very watered down experience that will open a Pandora's Box. No thank you.

Any increased quantity in NPC membership numbers, and thereby boost in quantity of dues, will not make up for the lack of scholarly quality of most CCs which do not offer the depth/breadth of educational degrees found at the 4 yr entities to which most NPC groups attain and aspire chapters.

[SWTXBelle]

By design, community colleges don't offer the "breadth" of a university - they offer 2 year degrees, but that doesn't mean the education is in any way shape or form inferior. When students take my freshman or sophomore classes, they have an award-winning instructor with over 30 years of experience in a class of 25 or less; at many 4 year schools, they would be being taught by a graduate assistant, or a professor who relies on graduate assistants who are taking their own classes, in a class of a hundred or more. We tracked students from my college and compared their eventual g.p.a.s and completion rate with students who started at a 4 year college - and our students did better. Universities accept community college credits because the students are getting the education they need to succeed in getting a 4 year degree.
It's no secret there are NPC sororities who would not deign to have a chapter at some schools by virtue of the campuses not have the cachet they require. (Looking at a certain NPC that loudly proclaimed they would NEVER have a chapter at Texas State because of an article in Playboy from the 70s. Their loss, I assure you.) That's fine. Their prerogative. But if the NPC is looking into community colleges, let's not adopt the stereotypical attitude of "Well, OBVIOUSLY community college students aren't academically or socially our equals." There are plenty of objective reasons it would not be viable, but to generalize and act like snotty mean girls looking down on community college students isn't a good look. Do we exist to share sisterhood, or to act as glorified cliques? And can glorified cliques continue to exist?
There are NPC sororities that thrive on smaller, perhaps less prestigious colleges. If they, or in fact any NPC member, after careful study and consideration, wants to try, as long as they go in with their eyes open, I'd say that's their prerogative, too. (And yes, I know all 26 would have to agree.)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

How old are we talking here? I graduated from Behrend in 2006, and as far as I know, a group like this didn't exist. Unless they were operating SUPER underground and no one knew who they were. lol.

I mean like in the 70s/80s. After your time summer child :-)

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

By design, community colleges don't offer the "breadth" of a university - they offer 2 year degrees, but that doesn't mean the education is in any way shape or form inferior. When students take my freshman or sophomore classes, they have an award-winning instructor with over 30 years of experience in a class of 25 or less; at many 4 year schools, they would be being taught by a graduate assistant, or a professor who relies on graduate assistants who are taking their own classes, in a class of a hundred or more. We tracked students from my college and compared their eventual g.p.a.s and completion rate with students who started at a 4 year college - and our students did better. Universities accept community college credits because the students are getting the education they need to succeed in getting a 4 year degree.
It's no secret there are NPC sororities who would not deign to have a chapter at some schools by virtue of the campuses not have the cachet they require. (Looking at a certain NPC that loudly proclaimed they would NEVER have a chapter at Texas State because of an article in Playboy from the 70s. Their loss, I assure you.) That's fine. Their prerogative. But if the NPC is looking into community colleges, let's not adopt the stereotypical attitude of "Well, OBVIOUSLY community college students aren't academically or socially our equals." There are plenty of objective reasons it would not be viable, but to generalize and act like snotty mean girls looking down on community college students isn't a good look. Do we exist to share sisterhood, or to act as glorified cliques? And can glorified cliques continue to exist?
There are NPC sororities that thrive on smaller, perhaps less prestigious colleges. If they, or in fact any NPC member, after careful study and consideration, wants to try, as long as they go in with their eyes open, I'd say that's their prerogative, too. (And yes, I know all 26 would have to agree.)

Bravo! This exactly. Look at where your chapters are. Do you see a trend? Have they been staying at Big State U/Private prestigious U or are they moving towards the many newer 4 year schools that are popping up? UAB was an "extension center" for the main campus for decades before it came into its own. Stop and look at all your chapters...check out the map I'm sure your group has of locations. What do you see? Christopher Newport? Grand Valley State? UC Merced? Where were these places 15-20 years ago? And where were your groups? If we can survive and thrive on these places, I'm sure the leadership of our groups and NPC will make the right decision for CCs. And as I said before, reach out to your group's extension officer and express your views. Anchor love to you all.

[DGTess]

I'm pleased to see a few are at least open to the idea. The "only 18 years old, socially prominent, listens to one's elders at alumnae Panhellenic meetings" seems it would do more harm than good in today's society.

I don't know how it will work, or if, but it bears exploration.

[clemsongirl]

It's also important to note that more and more community colleges are offering four-year degrees that can be completed entirely on that campus. This article from last April says that 26 states have authorized their community colleges to offer four-year degrees, and that 27 of Florida's 28 two-year institutions now offer four-year bachelor's degrees. There is a growing segment of the college-going population that stays at a community college for their entire higher education experience, and that segment is not being served at all by the Panhellenic experience. There are even some schools, like Richard Bland College, that are two-year institutions that offer the full residential college experience and have guaranteed transfer pathways to four-year colleges. I do think transfer affiliation issues would have to be worked out first before a sorority starts plunking down chapters at every associates' degree-offering college in a state, but that's up to each individual sorority to decide what works best for their member experience.

Re: Titchou's excellent point about where expansion has been happening in the past 15-20 years, there are only so many established prestigious universities with fraternity and sorority life, and only so many that are hospitable to new chapters for a litany of reasons, and only so many that a given sorority has the local resources to coalesce around a new chapter. If ADPi had to choose between starting a new chapter at University of Alaska-Anchorage or Palm Beach State College, I know which one would be easier. Additionally, chapters at state and community colleges wouldn't need housing so they'd be much cheaper to start than a chapter at Big State U that needs a McMansion to be successful.

[AZTheta]

SWTXBelle & titchou, we're gonna agree to disagree on this one. FWIW I don't see my response as "elitist" or "mean girl clique" and would be more than open to you telling me your perceptions of my own words. Perhaps it wasn't directed at me specifically however I will clean up my own doorstep if necessary. And I will follow DGTess and watch the exploration with some interest. *shrug*

Oh, one more thing: what is with articles from the 1970s dictating Texas behavior in the 2020s? Sheesh. Who has that kind of time?

[SWTXBelle]

We're good, AZTheta, and I wasn't thinking of your response specifically; to be honest, I could see some other posts as veering into snotty clique territory, so regard my post as being prophylactic!

If you (this is a general "you", not you, AZTheta!) look at NPC history, you'll note there was a time when "teacher colleges" were beyond the pale for the NPC, which resulted in the Association of Education Sororities being founded in 1916. I'm sure there were discussions similar to those we are having today (maybe by carrier pigeon?!) when Sarah Ida Shaw Martin petitioned NPC on behalf of AES in 1920. She was unsuccessful, but eventually in 1947, the AES joined the NPC, and we got our wonderful panhellenic sisters in Alpha Sigma Tau, Sigma Sigma Sigma, and Alpha Sigma Alpha.

All community colleges are not the same; there are quite a few that I can think of here in Texas which would be fertile grounds for chapters, and many that I don't think would be viable.

I'm going to wait until the NPC committee reports back before deciding. I think it behooves us to be as flexible as we can be in thinking ahead. We have survived lo these many years because we have changed as our society has - we are in the midst of a huge upheaval which will result in a different campus atmosphere across the board. We need to be flexible if we are to survive.

And yeah, that NPC is missing out on a great, dynamic campus!

[tcsparky]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

. (And yes, I know all 26 would have to agree.)

And, while all 26 would have to agree on the policy, not all 26 would have to agree to attempt to colonize at CCs. Some could say, "While this may not be a good fit for our organisation, I can see where others may want this opportunity."

[carnation]

I believe that some will turn it down because they don't want the pressure from CCs to colonize. In these days, who needs more grief? And who needs the grief a mad CC member would cause if her attempt to affiliate got knocked down?

Y'all know that she would show up here soon afterward asking us, as if we could, to give her permission to rush again. Bet me.