Fraternity Rush at Kansas - Page 3

PhiGam · #1 06-25-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTW

Wow, this thread sure got derailed.

I actually thought FSUFiji tied it together quite nicely.

srmom · #2 06-26-2008, 11:25 AM

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You are all clearly in the same line of thinking. I am in a different camp. We'll just have to disagree on this one.

I am disappointed in your thinking because it's too easy and common. Most Greeks join for a lot of the wrong reasons - they just wanna party. They miss the point that all of our national organizations were founded 100+ years ago for virtuous and nobel reasons. Somewhere along the way, the culture changed, values changed and so did fraternities.

National organizations offer their top awards to high-achieving chapters that live out their founding principles. This takes a lot of hard work, dedication, delayed gratification, discipline, accountability & more. The fact that you don't value such awards or the organizations who earn them is an indictment on your character.

Throwing big parties and breaking the rules isn't unique or difficult. Rather, it is common and easy. Thus, you are members of common, lethargic organizations. You are like dinosaurs marching toward extinction and you don't even realize it. You laugh at hard work and embrace folly.

I guess we simply have different values.

kedzman, as a mom of boys, I have to say that this post isn't really going to "market" your fraternity to 18 year old boys. Maybe the organization that you are espousing would be better suited to mature adult men who are already paying bills and taking on adult responsibilities.

You say that Greeks join for the wrong reasons: that they shouldn't want to party, that they should be virtuous and noble, that they should strive for things that require a lot of hard work, dedication, delayed gratification, discipline, accountability & more. That sounds alot like my husband now, at 50, but certainly not the kid he was when he was back in college, and certainly not my own college age sons. Those types of ideals come through living, and 18 year olds haven't done much of that yet.

You also throw assertions out about these guys' characters that you really don't know anything about: that they are common, that they laugh at hard work and embrace folly, etc. Well, maybe they are 4.0 students. Maybe they are paying their fraternity dues from summer jobs. I don't know, and neither do you. They also will be much different in 20 years. Aren't we all different than we were when we were in college? I know I am

Anyway, it may be just me, but your posts really rub me the wrong way.

Kedzman · #3 06-27-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

kedzman, as a mom of boys, I have to say that this post isn't really going to "market" your fraternity to 18 year old boys. Maybe the organization that you are espousing would be better suited to mature adult men who are already paying bills and taking on adult responsibilities.

You say that Greeks join for the wrong reasons: that they shouldn't want to party, that they should be virtuous and noble, that they should strive for things that require a lot of hard work, dedication, delayed gratification, discipline, accountability & more. That sounds alot like my husband now, at 50, but certainly not the kid he was when he was back in college, and certainly not my own college age sons. Those types of ideals come through living, and 18 year olds haven't done much of that yet.

You also throw assertions out about these guys' characters that you really don't know anything about: that they are common, that they laugh at hard work and embrace folly, etc. Well, maybe they are 4.0 students. Maybe they are paying their fraternity dues from summer jobs. I don't know, and neither do you. They also will be much different in 20 years. Aren't we all different than we were when we were in college? I know I am

Anyway, it may be just me, but your posts really rub me the wrong way.

I have to compliment you on such a polite, gracious post. You make a lot of good points and I agree with you. That being said, some 18-19 year old students are mature beyond their years. A lot of this his to do with the way their parents raised them and/or how tightly they hold onto their faith and live it out in their daily lives.

Our organization tends to attract young men who are a little more mature for their age than your typical 18 year old. It's hard to explain it, but you can feel the difference when you walk into a room with 50 Sigma Nu's from NIU vs. the other fraternities. As an alumnus, I've been to football tailgate parties and other large group events where fraternities are hanging out in packs. Many of the other fraternities make a wild spectacle of themselves can appear to be real bafoons. That is attractive to an 18 year old that wants to be a wild ass. The SN crowd tends to be a cut above in their social demeanor. They still have a great time and attract the top ladies - they just keep a cooler head about them.

I guess my point is, while most 18 year old boys are not going to be attracted to my post - that's OK. The 10% of the 18 year olds that are mature beyond their years and looking for something a little more than just a social fraternity experience is going to really be attracted to Sigma Nu. In an environment where everyone is throwing parties and recruiting to a social scene, we tend to take things to the next level to differentiate ourselves. There is a market for it. We attract leaders. We develop leaders. We have more of our members in positions of leadership on campus and in the community than any other fraternity. We have a 21 year old City Alderman and a 19 year old County Board Member. Two of the last 3 student government presidents have been Sigma Nus. They are #1 or #2 in GPA each of the last 4 semesters. On the social scene, on a campus with 15 fraternities and only 8 sororities, SN consistently pairs with the top 4-5 sororities.

Thanks again for the gracious post. You are more careful and considerate than I in the way you express yourself. I tend to come across a bit abrupt and sometimes abrassive in my text posts. I'm much better in person!

srmom · #4 06-26-2008, 01:56 PM

Kevin, I agree with you and very well put.

Of course, we all want people to be the very best they can be - having good values and ideals.

But, it's ok to have some fun too

Love that 'iron triangle' theory - 3 B's haha! I've never heard that!

33girl · #5 06-26-2008, 02:34 PM

I think a lot of NPC and NIC groups have looked at the NPHC groups, seen the incredible involvement they have (by not just collegians but alums), and are trying to emulate it by being more businesslike and putting more emphasis on philanthropy and leadership and the group's principles. (That doesn't mean the NPHC groups don't have fun - of course they do!)

The problem, of course, is that the way NIC and NPC groups rush is completely opposite to rush for the NPHC groups.

I mean, Susie can have 6 breast cancer survivors in her family, and feel very drawn to ZTA because that's their philanthropy - but if Susie walks into a ZTA rush party and feels uncomfortable and doesn't like any of the sisters, she's going to cross ZTA off the list of sororities she wants to join.

We can't rush on the principle of "join the group where you fit in" and make it all about friendship and then once people are in, say that friendship and fun should take a back seat to philanthropy and leadership and living your principles.

62231 · #6 06-26-2008, 02:42 PM

I don't feel like responding, but I like what EE-BO and 33girl have to say about this.

banditone · #7 06-26-2008, 03:03 PM

If it weren't for the 3 B's I probably wouldn't have joined a fraternity.

I guess I'm a bad example, as leadership training was about 367th on my mind when I joined.

srmom · #8 06-26-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

If it weren't for the 3 B's I probably wouldn't have joined a fraternity

Three Cheers For Honesty!!

Quote:

I guess I'm a bad example, as leadership training was about 367th on my mind when I joined.

No, just a normal freshman guy.

PhiGam · #9 06-26-2008, 04:27 PM

All I know is that if I talked to someone at rush who was talking like Kedzman I would walk out of the door immediately.

Elephant Walk · #10 06-26-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiGam

All I know is that if I talked to someone at rush who was talking like Kedzman I would walk out of the door immediately.

I'd do it cuz I figure nationals were spying on us.

nate2512 · #11 06-26-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banditone

If it weren't for the 3 B's I probably wouldn't have joined a fraternity.

I guess I'm a bad example, as leadership training was about 367th on my mind when I joined.

Yeah, me either, there are plenty of other organizations that offer chances for all that boring stuff, i.e. student goverment, clubs, and such. None rival fraternities (the real kind) in terms of what they offer socially. I wanted something more from my college experience than the drone of the norm, and while I don't need a fraternity to be social, it definitely structures and supports it.

It's normally not about what you know, but who you know.

banditone · #12 06-26-2008, 07:53 PM

and for the thread: rock-chalk-jayhawk!

sarahsmilehawk · #13 06-26-2008, 09:53 PM

I go to KU. Formal recruitment was this past weekend, but here's my take in case anyone still wants it.

Yes, anyone who has a house has a pretty big/nice one. Many of the houses are really impressive.

My house had a party with Sigma Nu last semester and a few of them subsequently made appearances at our formal. Good group of guys, and I see this chapter becoming strong once they get their numbers up. Also one of the CLEANEST fraternity houses I've been in!

My understanding is that Delta Tau Delta is taking their house back this year. TKE had been renting it from the Delts, but they got their numbers up enough to support a house. Not sure what's happening to TKE...

I'm pretty confident that Lambda Chi Alpha doesn't haze-- really. Upperclassmen regularly participate in BADD duty and they have "associate members" instead of pledges. But I'm a girl, so obviously I can't be 100% certain. I do, however, know of some other houses that definitely haze (at least in my definition). Again, that's to the best of my knowledge.

Beta Theta Pi routinely has the highest gpa, usually by a pretty large margin.

I have a lot more comments, but most of them would be unfair speculation, so I'll shut up.

banditone · #14 06-26-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarahsmilehawk

My house had a party with Sigma Nu last semester and a few of them subsequently made appearances at our formal. Good group of guys, and I see this chapter becoming strong once they get their numbers up. Also one of the CLEANEST fraternity houses I've been in!

Really cool to have input from someone that is on campus at the time. That is a big change from when I visited the chapter house there. It was pretty trashed out; but could have been the result of a recent party and not the norm.

BigRedBeta · #15 06-27-2008, 12:20 AM

I haven't read most of this thread but there was one line from someone about their founders not having a clue about community service hours or something like that . With that in mind, I'll throw out one thought about national awards...

If the awards for your organization's top chapter awards aren't based on the principles of your organization as set forth by your founders, then you are rewarding chapters for the wrong things.