Home Schooling Declared Illegal in CA!

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I do think the government needs to oversee the education of kids in this country, whether that's through public or private schools, or keeping a close eye on homeschooling. Why? Because our whole society pays for it when kids grow up to be illiterate or undereducated adults who can't function in the real world.

Is there an epidemic of idiotic home-schooled children ruining society? I see plenty of public school grads and dropouts having this impact.

I agree, society has an interest in education. I still don't care. I don't think that everything society has an interest in mandates government involvement. Plus, your assertion seems premised on the idea that we later provide for people who can't function on their own, and I think that shouldn't be the case either.

Protecting society from itself is not something the government will ever do efficiently, and I really wish citizens would stop depending on it.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Is there an epidemic of idiotic home-schooled children ruining society? I see plenty of public school grads and dropouts having this impact.

My point wasn't about homeschooling. I even included it alongside public and private schools. I merely said that I DO think government should maintain some oversight of education, because we all know that without publicly-funded schools, America would be a MESS. Most families nowadays cannot afford to keep one parent home to teach the kids every day for 12 years. And most also can't afford to send their kids to private school for 12 years. So, if the government doesn't mandate that kids are educated, and it therefore stops paying for public schools, what are we to do?

And what do you then propose we do with the adults that are the product of a society that places no real value on education? Poverty, homelessness, welfare, unemployment, etc. doesn't just go away if you close your eyes, you know.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

My point wasn't about homeschooling. I even included it alongside public and private schools. I merely said that I DO think government should maintain some oversight of education, because we all know that without publicly-funded schools, America would be a MESS. Most families nowadays cannot afford to keep one parent home to teach the kids every day for 12 years. And most also can't afford to send their kids to private school for 12 years. So, if the government doesn't mandate that kids are educated, and it therefore stops paying for public schools, what are we to do?

And what do you then propose we do with the adults that are the product of a society that places no real value on education? Poverty, homelessness, welfare, unemployment, etc. doesn't just go away if you close your eyes, you know.

I think the value of education can't be overstated. That said, it isn't the government's responsibility to ensure equality of economic success.

I think oversight in education is fine. I think it should be on a localized level, as communities are much better suited to determine what the needs of local children are. However, I have a serious problem with a state telling parents that they don't trust them to make decisions, regardless of whether the results are satisfactory. I have a fundamental problem with the idea that the state is charged with the responsibility of overseeing child upbringing. If a child can be homeschooled and still meet the thresholds set for children of similar age, then by all means, parents should have the liberty to take their children away from institutionalized education. Is it any surprise that people are reluctant to trust their children to the state of California?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

My point wasn't about homeschooling. I even included it alongside public and private schools. I merely said that I DO think government should maintain some oversight of education, because we all know that without publicly-funded schools, America would be a MESS. Most families nowadays cannot afford to keep one parent home to teach the kids every day for 12 years. And most also can't afford to send their kids to private school for 12 years. So, if the government doesn't mandate that kids are educated, and it therefore stops paying for public schools, what are we to do?

And what do you then propose we do with the adults that are the product of a society that places no real value on education? Poverty, homelessness, welfare, unemployment, etc. doesn't just go away if you close your eyes, you know.

Agree with this whole post. Again, education becomes a luxury that only the rich can afford and if you think jobs are leaving the country NOW - it will only get worse when only a small segment of the populace is educated. I believe the less government the better on pretty much all issues, but not this one.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think oversight in education is fine. I think it should be on a localized level, as communities are much better suited to determine what the needs of local children are.

I do agree heartily with this statement. Especially in PA, where to say our schools/neighborhoods/localities run the gamut is an understatement and for Harrisburg to make a blanket decision on what's best for all just doesn't make sense. I also think that if parents are more invested in the schools, the schools won't go in the toilet. Then again, we also have school districts that refuse to merge (even if the kids would have more educational and extracurricular opportunities) because OH MY GOD THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE A FOOTBALL TEAM ANYMORE. But that is another thread.

May I also add that "school choice" only really works in urban environments. If I had "chosen" to go to another school, I would have been on a bus for an hour one way. We did have kids who paid tuition to go to our school (biggest in the county) instead of the district they lived in - but it wasn't because of the academics, it was because we had a baseball program that was sending lots of kids to play college ball (this goes with that other thread).

[RushLeader08]

o well. everyone knows that homeschool kids are nerds anyway!!!j/k

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by RushLeader08

o well. everyone knows that homeschool kids are nerds anyway!!!j/k

Tell that to Tim Tebow.

[Army Wife'79]

Aren't all the National Spelling Bee winners homeschooled kids? Many Army kids are homeschooled b/c it's a huge goat rope to move from Korea to Germany to Calif to VA to GA and try to keep some consistency in the education. Field trips to the Smithsonian or seeing an art masterpiece in person in Europe is pretty cool compared to just looking at slides or in books. My kids did private and public but I was always prepared to homeschool if the assignment/location warranted it.
On the flip side, I think it's sad and criminal when lunatic parents don't want their kids going to school b/c of the parent's activities (meth labs, abuse, etc.) and they withdraw them saying they will be homeschooled but they sit and watch tv all day and don't actually learn anything. Those parents need some sort of accountability.

[Thetagirl218]

Wow is all I can say for the responses so far in this thread!

Remember back in the beginning, I said I would eventually share my background on this?

Here it is:

This subject is very near and dear to my heart as I was home schooled since 1st grade up until graduation! It was one of the best experiences of my life! And yes, I did have a choice to be homeschooled or not. In fact, I chose to dual-enroll in college at the age of 16. By the time I was 20, I was done all of my requirements for my degree, and went to complete my teaching internship.

Yes, I said teaching internship. I earned a degree in Secondary Education. I am certified by the State of Florida to teach. So I feel that I have had the best of all worlds. I have been homeschooled, and have taught in both public and private schools. I see the problems and advantages in all three.

As for the issue of home school parents not having the training to teach their children, let me share something from my past. Both of my parents have two year degrees, neither have the proper qualifications in any state to get a teaching certificate, yet I learned so much from them.

Does this mean they knew every thing about every subject? No!

That is why homeschoolers and their parents do think outside of the box and participate in co-ops and other programs where they have classes with people who do have expertise in these subject areas.

And SWTXBELLE is right, home schoolers often rank above the national average in test scores. Stories like mine are not the rare exception as some think.

I also wanted to address that home schoolers for the most part do sit at home in a closet all day. Home schoolers are some of the most active, social people that I know.

[AKA_Monet]

I think this has something to do with money and how it is doled out to the schools. Every kid that attends public school, the more money the district gets out of the State Tax Pie. Home-schooled kids will mean loss of money.

In California, my mother is a retired elementary principal with a Ph.D. in education. My brother is a principal at a high school in California and his ex-wife is a elementary teacher and resourced teacher in California. If anyone can teach children it is these core of people... I don't know what they will do.

[bejazd]

I found some stats on the Calif Dept of Education web site that may add to this discussion:

There are 9.674 public schools in Calif with an enrollment of approx 6.3 million students

There are 294,366 public school teachers
The average teacher-pupil ratio is 1 teacher to 21.4 students. (that's an average, obviously some classes are much larger, with the largest classes in grades 4, 5 and 6 at about 1 teacher to 35 students.)

Of those 9674 schools, 585 are charter schools enrolling about 223,000 students.

There are 3506 private schools in Calif enrolling 584,983 students. The majority of children in private schools are in grades K-8, only 159,736 students are enrolled in private high schools. Among the private schools, about 1/3 are very small with just 6-36 total students.

My local newspaper reported earlier in the week that they don't keep records on just how many students in Ca are home schooled, but it's estimated at about 200,000 statewide.

[SWTXBelle]

The system still receives every cent of my taxes, while not having to provide any services for my children. So, there is more money in the state treasury for education that does not have to be spent on my children. If the problem is how the money is divided, then that needs to be addressed at the state level. But I refuse to feel badly because of the public school systems' mismanagement of funds. The private school at which I taught charged HALF of what the public schools were alloted per student - but that is really a whole 'nuther thread.
Right now I am visiting my folks in Katy, TX, where they literally cannot build schools fast enough - they are bursting at the seams. Were the literally thousands of homeschoolers in the area to register tomorrow, the system could not handle it.
Ultimately, it boils down to this - parents have the ultimate responsibility for their children. It is up to them to decide what is in the best interest of their children - whether it be public or private school, or to teach them at home. I feel that local control is a critical element for public schools - that no one is more committed to seeing local children educated than the principals, teachers, staff, parents and community members who love them and want the best for their community.

[macallan25]

Every home schooled kid I have ever met was weird and socially inept.

[SWTXBelle]

You've obviously not met all that many - or at least, I would say not a representative sample. Most (not all, of course) of the ones I've known have been more socially mature (less social pressure from peers, more interaction with adults).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

You've obviously not met all that many - or at least, I would say not a representative sample. Most (not all, of course) of the ones I've known have been more socially mature (less social pressure from peers, more interaction with adults).

What an adult finds pleasing and what an adolescent finds pleasing as far as social interaction are two very different things. Trust me, I've been there.

[honeychile]

I have to respectfully disagree with the "socially inept" part of home schooling. My godson & his brother & sister were all home schooled (in California), up until last year. This was done after the parents made the decision that their children's education was more important than having some of the "extras" of life - in other words, the parents did this sacrificially.

The father became ill (a story unto itself) and so the children were able to be with him up until he passed away - something they would have missed, had they been in a "real school" five days a week. Obviously, once he died, the mother had to go to work, so the kids started attending a private school on scholarship in the fall.

Within the first month of starting school for the first time, Erin was nominated for Homecoming Queen. Another three weeks later, she was a Homecoming Princess, coming in second. Her one brother is the star quarterback, and the other brother will start high school next year after winning the school's Talent Show.

I don't know about the world you all live in, but where I sit, Homecoming Princesses & star quarterbacks aren't considered "socially inept".